GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

Hi All,

Every time I want to use the N900's Ovi Maps GPS, it requires me to connect to internet and only works to find the nearest shopping malls etc only when I am connected to the net.

So can someone please advice how I can use the GPS without connecting to Internet?

Like when using Garmin or TomTom in your car, these SatNav's dont require you to connect to the internet.

In the same way is it possible to use the N900's Ovi maps or any other GPS application without being connected to internet?

Thanks!

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

There is already a thread regarding this in current discussion is it possible to merge this one ?

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

If you go into the Location settings on the main settings menu and simply take the tick out of Network Positioning you will then be using the internal gps as you want it to work.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

install GPSJinni or location test. GSPJinni is what i would recommend you to use it. it will help you connect to the satellites before you launch the Ovi Map.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

Correct me if i am wrong but GPS jinni is a seperate app altogether and nothing to do with OVI Maps and if you read his question in full it was how does he use the internal gps without connecting to the internet.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

Sad to say this but GPS on the N900 is soooo bad it requires an update at the very least to even get it to work anything like it should with or without internet connection.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I did as you suggested, but it still doesn't works.

Like for example while I am connected to the internet, if I search places like Boots or Baskin Robins in Bangkok, then it will show me a list of these places that are most closest to my present location.

However, if I search without connecting to internet, the search results do not fetch any results. Same is the case after I have unchecked the Network Position.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

Yeh like Abill_UK said, I thought GPSJinni is a complete different application all together? Does it works like a fully operational GPS software? As long as it brings results I dont care lol.

Have you used it? if so are you able to search all locations and directions to the places you want to go without having to connect to the internet?

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

Its a 3rd party app that has no link with OVI MAPS and does not make the gps work any better at all for obvious reason, is good for making sure the internal GPS chip being used in the N900 at least works but dont work on the actuall GPS programme anything like GPSjinnie ha ha.
Oh our N900 is in a sad old state right now lol still never mind because good things are about to happen.
If you want to try the 3rd party app here is the link for the download ok

http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/gpsjinni/

try it and see for yourself as its not a bad app.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

Sorry to say but am not suprised in the least that it dont work as the N900 is about as much good for GPS as a dead tom tom lol
You will have to wait for the next firmware update which is coming very soon we all hope lol, that has a few fixes for the GPS.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

Ovi Maps gives up trying to get a GPS fix after a few minutes and often fails without network positioning.

GPS Jinni doesn't give up, so you can leave it running until it gets a fix (it might take a while without a network connection) and then launch Ovi Maps which can use that fix.

As far as I know the search function requires a data connection at present however.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

How do you work that out because there is no link as far as i know between GPSjinnie and OVI MApS at all and i just opened up both to see GPS jinnie find 8 sats then after that opened up OVI MAPS and no way it gave me my position, i know this because on the maps app is still the last location i got a fix from which incidently was about a week ago ha.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I forgot to add this test i just did was using online connection turned on.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I have worked this out from using my phone abroad. Ovi Maps, after starting, would try and get a GPS fix for a couple of minutes and then give up leaving me with no GPS fix.

GPS Jinni on the other hand would look for as long as it took to get a lock (around 5-10 mins usually). After this, and with GPS Jinni still running, I would start Ovi Maps and it would aquire the same lock in moments.

There may be no direct link between the two programmes, but perhaps there is an underlying process taking care of the GPS data which they both use.

Whatever the case I have used this technique multiple times and it certainly works.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

Yes they both use the Location system. Location/GPS shuts down when the last user of it goes away. Ovi Maps gives up after 30 seconds. GPSJinni stays on. Thus if you're running gpsjinni location/gps doen't shut down after 30 secs when Ovi Maps gives up.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

sorry for my negative comments but....
ovi maps is a very bad joke, dont open it, problem solved, if you really need good software 'today' sell your n900, or if you want the best device on the market, with a bright looking future, keep it!
its a very fine line

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

No way i got to disagree with you here because i deliberatly proved this time again and i am sure there is no underlying link going on here, maybe you just got lucky that OVI was able to lock on but no way there is a link.
Please please someone prove me wrong here.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

abill_uk, read shadowjk's post above.

If you're still interested then go and do a bit of research on the topic. I'm sure there must be documentation related to using the GPS within an application around somewhere.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I have been thinking this one over and you know something just maybe because GPSjinnie is a well written app that actually drives the gps chip in the N900 properly it appears, because it locks in seconds for me every time, maybe because the gps chip is "awakened" by GPSjinnie thus the reason OVI locks on so maybe there is your underlying connection !.
The comments regarding OVIMAPS though is true cos its a useless app that just dont work, badly written or not written for a specific gps device.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

ovi maps never finds my position without network connection, so gps is useless for me without a proper app. hear me nokia!

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I noticed this too. I had some success with running a different map program (e.g. Mæmap) , wait until it gets a lock (might be 20 minutes!!), then start Nokia maps.

Or use a cheap external bluetooth GPS, which works so much better (away from the city).

Of course Ovi/Nokia maps on the n900 is such a piece of junk, why bother? I miss maemo mapper from the n8x0.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

The reason Ovi Maps dont work on the N900 is because the prgramme itself does not drive the gps device in the N900 the way it should as Ovi Maps was written for a broad spectrum of gps chips and as the app does not allow configuration to the N900 gps chip direct it will never work, the reason GPSjinnie works so well is because the writer obviously had the spec or enough info to write the app to drive the gps chip properly in the N900.
Your advice to get an external bluetooth gps is fair comment and probably the only way to get gps working on the N900 as long as it is configurable to the bluetooth gps device directly within its software from within the os of the N900.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I think you will find that is no different for any other program. Even in a dedicated car GPS-navigator running WinCE, the program just sees the built-in GPS as a generic device on a serial port talking a standard protocol. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMEA_0183 .
The N900 has an API which allows many programs to share the GPS, be it internal or external bluetooth.

I find that very hard to believe. Did you just make that up, or do you have some evidence to cite?

There are two problems as I understand it:
1) The N900's GPS can be very slow (30 mins or more even) to get a lock without a data connection. This will affect all mapping software in the N900.
2) The Nokia/Ovi maps program in the N900 gives up waiting after a short time, and stops using the GPS.

All it needs to be better than Ovi maps is not give up after a couple of minutes, and keep waiting.

Not sure I follow you. With an external GPS, you just wait for the external device to get a lock by itself. There is no fine control. The locating brains is all in the gps box.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I have tried this for the first time, and it worked.

I installed GPSJinni and Mapper.

My first trial is GPSJinni (Satellites), then after a few minutes, I started Mapper (GPS tab). It suddenly gets a GPS fix when I noticed GPSJinni's satellite bars turned GREEN which took 5-7mins.

I opened Ovi Maps, cancelled network connection prompts, then voila! I can see my location on the map with a RED dot.

*I just worry about Mapper as it sometimes crashes at random startup.
*I haven't tested yet if it was GPSJinni which really caused the GPS fix, or if it's Mapper.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

search and routing are _not_ done on the n900, but at nokia's servers.
so, without an internet connection, all you get is a pretty map.
(edit: provided you downloadad them already!)

nokia's information about those shortcomings are sparse at best, but it has been discussed sometimes in the forum already.

and since the gps is slow (and by design made to work best with assisted gps via network -- "we never thougt anyone would use that device w/o internet flatrate"), you often may need inet for that too.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

Make that: GPS is slow. It is, by design, especially if used only occasionally. Modern-day GPS devices use all sorts of tricks to get around that, usually with quite good success.

I already laid out most of the basics in this post. Maybe mentioning it here will help dispel some of the myths being propagated with regard to GPS.

Regards,
Chris.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

may that as it be, i had no such bad experience of slowness with the openmoko freerunner -- and that completely w/o any assistance.
i got fixes in about 1 minute under clear sky in a field, where not even the location test app of the n900 will get a fix in several minutes, not to speak of that badly designed ovi maps.
check the lengthy bug report about ovi maps/gps in the bugtrracker and mark the ridiculous ideas the developers had of the prospective users (a rather common issue looking at a lot of nokia apps) ...

btw: as i understood the op, he was confused by nokia's non-existent information about ovi maps _only_ searching/routing when connected to the inet -- _not_ the slowness of the gps.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I'm not familiar with the Moko's implementation, be it hard or software. Possibly it was using something that most dedicated GPS hardware uses today: offline A-GPS. To this day I wonder why the N900 doesn't have this implemented. Probably something to do with the 'always on' mentality of the designers and developers.

Hmm. I simply cannot confirm such problems -- at least using GPSJinni, which just invokes the location API as well -- unless conditions are really bad, in which case it simply is not surprising. And you'd be surprised how often conditions are bad. And I am not talking weather (which, contrary to popular belief, doesn't have a huge impact on GPS) but satellite constellations and obstruction of reception due to buildings and terrain. Using something like Trimble's Planning Software may give you some idea.

(Incidentally, something like that piece of software would be very nice to have on the N900, come to think of it -- and it actually might provide the needed approximation data for an offline A-GPS. Of course I currently have _no_ idea if such data could even be fed to the GPS unit via location API or any other way short of hacking the cellmodem firmware. What a stroke of genius by the guy who decided to hook it up there instead of directly to the main processor's I/O. :rolleyes: )

Oh, I'm not disputing that at all. An application using GPS that essentially folds after 30 seconds without a fix is ridiculous -- and that's putting it mildly. I would use stronger words, but that would go against my upbringing. :D

Acknowledged. But the thread had (once again, I might add, as this has happened in other threads before) drifted off into wild speculation about the N900's GPS in general, so I thought I might as well pick up on that. Mea culpa!

Regards,
Chris.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I am not sure about the facts regarding your post.

However, one thing I can say is that, without connecting to internet or downloading any extra applications (GPSJinni, Mapper etc), you can see your GPS location by clicking on the red dot on OVI maps.

However, you cannot search for other locations and you cannot find the route from point A to B unless you are connected to the internet.

And I have tried it even by downloading GPSJinni. It doesn't makes any difference. It still asks you to connect to internet if you want to search a location or find a route from point A to B on the map.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

So what is the official explanation on the n900 GPS inadequacy? Is it hardware or software? Shouldn't the GPS be able to get a good lock without networking? Even with networking, it seems much slower than other phones - or am I wrong?

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

A highly unspecific & leading complaint.

There are hardware and software components. The hardware is a decent quality chip. Some software which uses the GPS has bugs. Ovi Maps is lacking some features, but I don't class that as "GPS inadequacy".

Yes it should, and does. Pre-PR1.2 Ovi Maps had an issue with long lock times, but that was:
a) a software issue in one application only
b) fixed now

With networking, I nearly always get a fix in under 10 seconds.
Without networking, it takes a few minutes the first time only, and seconds on subsequent fixes.

Sorry I can't compare with other phones - but it feels pretty good to me.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I can compare with the Nokia N95-8GB.
On the N95 it took ages sometimes. Got no fix, even with aGPS.
Often I got a fix after 20-40 minutes.

The N900 is so fast, it is not compareable. Don't know how it is on iPhone or such other crap. ;)

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

After ~7 days without using GPS (it was even disabled) I got lock without internet connection in 2-3 minutes.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

usually it is less than 10 secs for me using network assistance, and a minute or so at max without. i also have an n95 and it takes ages as someone else pointed out.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I get a minute or two typical without network, but can be much longer. Probably when I was a long way from the location it was last used.

Could latitude make a difference? I'm at 30°S, and wonder if the 55° orbits of the satellites give better coverage at colder latitudes?

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I been using sygic maps program for the n900 and it works great without data paln on my tmobile here in USA california. All I do is laod up the sygic maps program and it takes about 30seconds to 2 minutes or so for the n900 internal gps to connect and I do have that location settings checked/enable using the google address rather than the default nokia name that was in there.

And it sygic works awesome it has voice turn by turn and once the gps is loaked and connected I can search for address's and it finds and makes thje routes and everything all without a data plan internet connection.

I use it to go to customers locations with my onsite mobile computer tech bussiness.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

Guys, I am a novice here. Is the bottom line that the GPS in N900 cannot be used without an internet connection? I was traveling with my device and without an internet connection I could not get the GPS to lock. It would keep saying "Looking for GPS..." I disabled "Network Positioning" but that made no difference. Is there a way to get N900 to work like a real GPS? I called Nokia support and I was told that an internet connection is mandatory for the GPS to work

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

Nokia are telling porkies. As long as you have pre-downloaded a map for the area of interest (I have the whole of Europe) it can and will work unaided. Search the forum for map downloads, there are many threads (I used nokia map loader from a Win XP PC).

Download your map, disable your network, turn off AGPS and then start ovi maps. It will grumble and ask if you want to enable data, but don't. Leave the phone stationary, outside in an open area, and it will search for a GPS lock - should get one in a couple of minutes first time you try .. as mentioned above, subsequent locks (within same area) should be much quicker.

However , note that you CAN'T use the Ovi Maps search facility without a data connection, so you either need to map your route on wifi before you go out, or you need to plan it while out by moving around on the map itself to set your start/end points before letting Ovi calculate the route for you (i.e. you can't just enter a street name as a start/end point without data). Not ideal, but workable - I used it a lot while roaming abroad in this manner.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

I have found that GPS works BETTER without an internet connection in some cases -- I noticed it when I took my sim out one day and my GPS connected up shortly. I have suspected that there was something wrong with Tmobile's GPS assistance and it was actually useful to get rid of it.

Re: GPS on N900 without connecting to Internet?
 

How do I turn off AGPS? There is no such option under "Location"