Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

I have the 125-900 kernel and with this design it is fast on hungry apps but those that require on and off load it is choppy. Do you guys know of any apps with a small footprint that would keep the processor going at 500 and back down when not necessary so thinking that I would get rid of the choppyness in reaction time.
thanks

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

You might use the Titan's kernel which allows more granularity in choosing frequencies.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

titans kernel with "ideal" settings has 500 idle and seems to me a much nicer option all round, less stuttering and believe it or not, better battery life too.
queen beecon can be used for simple commands as "widgets"
the things on the right are clock settings that i can alter just by pressing them. the black ones at the top and bottom show me what is running at the time, high and low mhz and they update by clicking or when the desktop is refreshed.
http://3ifvda.blu.livefilestore.com/...425-152820.png
http://3ifvda.blu.livefilestore.com/...425-152851.png
http://3ifvda.blu.livefilestore.com/...425-152915.png

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Don't you guys think constant 500 Mhz (almost max frequenz with standard kernel) would be bad for the CPU?

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

well, any overclocking will reduce life blah blah.......
but with the ideal settings my overclock is usually 850mhz this is running at the same voltage a stock n900 would use @ 500mhz.
"ideal" settings for min freq @ 500 is again a lower voltage than the default @ 250.
imho overclocking and undervolting if it works for you is pretty "safe" (if common sense is observed, funny thing about common sense tho, it aint that common.........)

i think im right in saying that @ 600mhz the stock settings are considered an overvoltage, so running the default maxed out for long periods could be considered as bad..............

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

could you share the scripts you use baron von bubba so i can have queen beacon buttons the same ? total noob not at all sure how to do

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Locking the processor at 500/550/600 will fry the device!!!
Don't lock it, the device knows what to do on its own.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

explain further please?
what are you basing this claim on?

afak many ppl are now clocking the device, some to stooopid levels, i know it's yet early days but are you not a little surprised even at these silly 850+ levels there have been no failures?

locking the processor @ 600...... so not good even at default settings to use the device for long periods with the processor maxed out??
so where do you draw the line? don't use the device at all for fear of shortening its life span somewhat??

i know my phone battery when idling is now stupidly loooong lasting, on default is was terrible....so more power was being used @ default idle, would this not be worse for the device also?

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

That's my opinion too.
250-900 with ideal voltages should be the best compromise.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Some Nokia Guy (?) at the Maemo Summit '09 explicitly said during one talk that locking the processor at its maximum (non-overclocked) speed will quickly kill it (I don't have the source here to quote from, unfortunately). Spend more time making your apps more efficient and less time overclocking the CPU (or thinking of locking the frequency, for that matter) :)

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

How I understand it is that the voltage is the main factor in reducing CPU life so if, as in this case, you use a lower voltage (for example the same voltage used for 250mhz in stock kernel) for 500mhz in this modified kernel there should not be problems.

Also this is not overclocking as the maximum CPU frequency remains at 600mhz.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

can you run as long as you can walk before you get too tired to go any further?

Higher speeds = more stress on the processor

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

A Nokia engineer who knows way more than you do, or any other user who states overclocking is safe.

Anything above 600 is stupid, otherwise TI would've stated that, and obviously, since TI made these chips they know what they're talking about.

No, the device doesn't stay at 600 all the time, when it's under load, it maxes out, when it finishes doing something, it goes back to 250 (125 wasn't set as a minimum since it doesn't really help with battery power and actually causes the device to become unstable).

125, as I said above, wasn't disabled because Nokia want to make your battery last less, it was done for a reason.

Undervolting doesn't help in not frying the device.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

But this same Nokia Guy also said that since 600MHz is dangerous, the device includes safeguards to prevent it from continuously running at 600MHz. This turned out to be false, as you can easily test by running
while true ; do true ; done in a console. So take any statements from that presentation with a grain of salt.

BTW, TI says that the OMAP should run for 50000 hours (that is more than 5 years) continuously at 600MHz.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Have you tried tweaking the CPU governor? Tweaking this works for the applications I have on my N900. I have used this for years on Debian based HTPCs to reduce power and heat also with pretty good results. There is a better description for the N900 on the wiki then I could give.
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=170
FWIW I am running 250 - 900MHz.
Take care.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

the same nokia engineer would im sure say running @ max for long periods with default would be bad for the device.
so dont play games or leave the phone ringing for long periods of time kids.....

what would the manufacturer of a car recommend you to and say it is safe to drive over the speed limit? blah blah, this is a stupid point!

the phone was rushed and barely finished at release? and you are going to say that nokia got everything totally correct and right at release?

why would it be stupid to clock over 600 espessially considering the voltage is lower than the upper stock freq settings???
whats worse for life of a chip? higher voltage or higher freqs?
or as bad as each other?

if the phone is a HUGE amount faster and more responsive but lasts half its life, it'll still last twice as long as i will own it!

so i'd be stupid not to clock it in my opinion! ;)

i guess its been stupid of me to but a cheaper processor for my pc and clock it to levels of a chip twice the price for the last 12 years.
hmmm, and how many have died?

don't take the limiters off of yer 50cc scooters.
don't chip/map your diesels.
the manufactures ALWAYS say the changing anything from their config is bad..............

but hey you have your opinion and you seem stuck in that, me, i'll take the red pill. ;)

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Dude, please.
Just do all of us who think a favor, and stfu.

Oh and one more thing, post edited with my thoughts in bold, and voltage doesn't matter, if you hit 800 you hit 800, it doesn't matter what voltage it's at.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Some devices uses the same cpu ARM Cortex-A8 the n900 has, overclocked at 800mhz by default, so you'd better stfu and do some more research

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

there are couple things:

don't know how you are measuring constant 600mhz frequencies. I remember one test case that didn't prove anything. measuring interval 1 second, processor does 600M calculations per second with max rate so what is the frequency 599999999/600000000ths of a second? the measurement of frequency doesn't last many cycles, correct me if I am wrong.

and no one of you probably have know-how about designing circuitry, heat disspatch etc with mobile devices. I am machine engineer and I know enough from thermal dynamics that plastic isn't the best material if you have heat you need to loose... and n900 probably hasn't been designed overclocking in mind: there is no point creating reserves for cooling with mobile devices. it costs, increases device size, ....

and how long have the overclocks been out? If I remember correctly, less than 900.hours since first announced method. So there is no real data about how well n900 lasts when overclocked. and there is no way counterarguing with reports that device runs well overclocked and no failures for now. when you have thousands of hours overclocked, we can get back to it. so it takes atleast a month if someone has used and will use his device 24/7.....

e: and please keep in mind that nokia has to design devices to last 2 years minimum with any usecase (except exceptions mentioned in warranty terms)

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

same patch? so the 4 letters are now thrown back to you....

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

There is nothing in the kernel to reduce frequency from 600MHz under load. I bet there is also none in user space, as it does not make sense to put it in user space. I ran simple program to use 100% cpu time for 3 hours, and all 3 hours were at 600MHz. If your metalayer-crawler (or any other program) goes crazy, and you put the N900 to charge and go to sleep, then it spends all the night in 600MHz (and 1.375V), and generates a lot of heat. It must have happened to thousands of people, yet we do not here about so many dead N900s, therefore the N900 must be a bit less sensitive to heat than you imagine.

System heat is a bad argument against overclocking. There are a few worse heat generators in the N900, including the battery and the UMTS radio.

In addition - for a given task the heat generation is almost independent of frequency, since power used is proportional to frequency, but time needed is inversely proportional. Heat increases proportionally to square of voltage, and most overclockers use lower voltage then default Nokia settings, thus using less power, and generating less heat.

Of course, some activities (such as some games or video playing) might use the additional frequency to do more, and thus generate more heat for apparently the same work. But for more normal tasks (such as web browsing), overclocking results in less heat generated and less battery used, as almost any overclocker reports.

Droid, with the same CPU, designed by Motorola for running at a maximum of 550MHz is already being overclocked for over 3 months, without any reported ill effects.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Well I have AMD Phenom 9950 on my desktop, it is running @2.6Ghz 1.3V stock. I can overclock it to 2.8Ghz by increasing multiplier, if I go further my PC will crash, so 8% increase with no voltage adjustment. I could put it to 1.45V and go as high as 3.2Ghz but temp. increase is just insane after every 0.05V you do. If you undervolt or increase frequency without increasing voltage there is no extra heat. Underclocing dramatically reduces heat - FACT. Do not forget that this is 140W X86 CPU, but it still is a CPU - even though different architecture. I see A LOT of potential in that A8, Apple's iPad got one @1Ghz, no prob there. I ran it @1Ghz the speed increase is amazing. That is 40% faster with stock voltage (Titans ULV Kernel)
EDIT:
When almost idle it runs undervolted at 250Mhz which equals less heat, when on high load it does things in shorter period of time and goes back to 250 therefore less time high voltage and frequency, IMHO overclocing even extends life of your N900.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Using titan's new kernel, even 550mhz uses less voltage than stock Nokia kernel did at 250mhz. The word overclocking seems to cause bad vibes. We are running the cpu more efficiently and cooler than Nokia's stock kernel ever did. So please, do your homework before swearing at the 'overclockers'. Not everyone is dumb and overclocking is nothing new. That Nokia engineer dude actually said frequency is not the problem. It's the high voltages that Nokia's stock kernel uses. My cpu right now uses less voltage at 950mhz than what your non overclocked cpu uses at 600mhz. Nokia is the one actually overclocking the cpu by over volting the cpu heavily from 550mhz onwards. I'll bet my cpu runs much cooler with less stress at 850mhz than stock N900 at 600mhz.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

thing is, you say locking the processor WILL FRY the device. while i agree lifespan in an overclocked chip is reduced, but to say the your device WILL FRY is unfounded and unproven! yeah its a new thing to n900, but n900 is a new thing!
altho in the way using the device in an out of the box condition will shorten your life span the moment you turn it on, so why dont you just say using your devce will fry it?

ppl are pushing the limits running at 1100+ if the chip was a delicate as you are trying to infer would some surely have blown by now?

i am however stating that while clocking will shorten lifespan i believe that the gains outway the life hit. if done sensibly.

so answer why it is not dangerous to run stock mhz and voltage with the phone maxed out for long periods, gaming for example?

is it not stupid and dangerous for you to use a usb charger and have the phone sat @ 500mhz for long periods?

That was the N97, not the N900, get your facts right

hmmm, facts......you are saying the n900 was complete and finished at release??? its nowhere near that now even.....
dude, remove those rose coloured specs.....

i think you are a little bit rude and uncultured. young man.
i'm stating my opinion as my opinion, where as you are cramming your'e opinion down our throats as facts.

but as it is said, arguing on the internet is like running in the special Olympics, even if you "win" you are still ******ed.............

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

you cannot get accurate data about device temperature unless you open the covers up and stick a temperature sensor to multiple places. but then again airflow is changed significantly because no covers are on.... so I'd take those "more efficiently and cooler" -arguments with a 10 ton pile of salt.
(e: and I mean when talking with scientifically measurable, repeatable etc terms, not in "I got a feeling" -level used by the overclockers)

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

In contrast to the very scientific "Nokia said" method used by anticlockers.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

I think the "up_threshold" and "sampling_rate" setting makes it more responsive - it'll up the frequency sooner, and checks more often.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

The other way to do it is to remove the battery, and connect a bench supply (with T bias to trick the phone). Then you can see power consumption (and hence heat production) very accurately as it happens. Wont affect air flow much. (Been intending to do this for a while - just need some time!)

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Surely this argument is mute, we all know that overclocking a device will reduce the life of the CPU, the try crux of the problem is by how long. Anyone who has ever owned a pc running a sempron proccessor will know that overclocking just means more noise from the cpu fan.

Every phone I have had lasted for more than 2 years easily, my k800 is still going, now I didn't overclock the cpu on that and I assume that the phone will no doubt beceome defunct technology wise before it dies, so if I overclock my n900 and it dies in 4 years time, yes I reduced the battery life by x years but as Im sure many people on this site will agree is come the end of those four years some new nokia smart phone will be about and an upgrade to that will be in order... bring on the overclocking etc. and so the cycle repeats.

Also Im sure there is a thread somewhere on this site monitoring the impact of overclocking...

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

well, there must be someone who designed the device in the first place. designer (whose name is known) vs user account in the internet.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

thing is NO ONE from nokia or pretty much any other company would say yeah its "safe" to overclock or mod their devices.

but everything produced has to have operational tolerances. if this chip couldn't run over 600 mhz it would not have been released as a 600.....

it also seems most of the anticlockers also choose to ignore the voltage drop in the newer kernel/settings and the gains in life this would give at comparable freqs.....

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

I was criticizing the claims that overclocking is safe because device feels cooler. and replied to matan who seemed to claim that single end user reports are better facts than opinion of hw engineer who has been designing the device.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

hw engineer who unfortunately is an employee of Nokia.
If I was him, I would also say it's not safe to overclock. Legal reasons.

btw, I never said device feels cooler. Just going by technical theory.
and I'm not new to overclocking cpus and was an electrical engineer.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Underclocking isn't bad for the CPU. The stock speed is 600MHz.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

you could use the dbus-scripts to change the minimum freq. to 500 when
the screen is unlocked and back to 125 when it's locked.
As other people have already mentioned, you could also stick to 500 with a lower voltage kernel.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Perhaps the thread could benefit from an overclocker's touch.

First, let me clear a few things up, because while I read most, I didn't read all the replies, but it seems like you people have the strangest views on overclocking.

a) Overclocking does little to a CPU. What a CPU does, overall, is transform its electricity bill into heat (mostly) and EM (very little). As a result, the stress on the device is directly related to power consumption (and power dissipation).

b) It is not the frequency that does damage to a CPU unless you clocked it so far it doesn't start. Frequency is a component in stress because it is a component in power/heat.

c) Power consumption is: P = V^2 * F * C. That is, voltage squared, multiplied by frequency and capacitance. C is constant and specific to each CPU, so what you get is a linear increase in power (and heat) with frequency and an exponential increase with voltage. Overvolting matters more.

The CPU that rung the machine I'm posting from has a 33% in frequency, from 3 GHz to 4 GHz. It's a Q9650. As a result, the power increased (I had to ante the voltage) from 90W average to 225W average (there's a pump involved - and an analog amp meter hooked to the power system).

This is why the difference from 800 to 900 to 1000 MHz matters so.

d) As long as you can dissipate the heat and the voltage stays below the reversal/frying of components, there is nothing wrong with OC on a realistic scale.

While it is well known OC will destroy components, with decent voltage, a decent clock and ACTUALLY APPROPRIATE COOLING, you can run a component up to most of its useful life.

With no perishable components inside, a CPU like ARM can most likely run until materials age. I'm gonna call it 10 years. As components heat, aging is accelerated. By how much is directly dependent on material and heat, bust most components have a threshold where life shortens quickly. Under that threshold, an OC system will probably live 9 years.

For example, a Core 2 will last a lifetime (whatever) at 55 degrees, a decent time at 60 and a short while at 65. At 70, you should probably be on your way to the store. Actually, you should already have a backup on your desk.

This is when you have a sensor inside the damned chip. When you feel it through 1 cm of plastic and isolating materials, the difference is almost not noticeable. As a result, you could fry it and not even know.

That said, enemy number one in a compact device isn't CPU heat as overall device heat. If the GPU is working like nuts, along with battery, wifi, etc, the CPU can't dissipate from 50 to 25 degrees, but from 50 to 45.

As a result, its heat transfer capacity drops 5-fold, meaning you only have 20% of the power available. That sound very little until you look up at the formula and realize that 20 hear is likely more than 50% speed, if you throttle voltage to match.

It is unlikely that an N900 is unable to dissipate the heat it generates at 600 MHz, so it safely runs. However, it assumes that it runs hand-held, or on a table, or solo. When things get out of hand, bad stuff happens.

So, before I wear out the keyboard, the real issue is this:

A compact machine that is N900-like is able and willing to run at max designed speed if cooled appropriately. Cut any corners in cooling (you know, like building world's most crammed phone), and you drop at 800. Add the fact that other components also heat up. Add the fact that the idi... sorry, user will forget the phone on the dashboard and it will heat up, then pick it up and set it to navigate with GPS, online, and rotate/zoom the map in real time.

So there are safeties that insure survival. I'm pretty sure you can run 900+ if you take care of the CPU to run alone, or less stressed than pinned at full and not while using a lot. Also, keep it cool.

It is also true that another user is able to fry the thing by letting it out in the sun, running some ghastly game that pushes GPU, CPU, WIFI, in turn making battery hot and so on.

IPhone has thermal protection, google it up. So do most if not all PDAs. So do most PNAs. I'm guessing we have one too. Don't rely on it though.

Oh, and one last thought. Unless you drop it, CPUs don't fry in a week. There hasn't been enough time for the OCd N900 to start dropping like flies. I'm thinking 3-6 more months before the first ones start to act up. And by that I mean stuff like stability, inability to boot, randomly missing hardware, stuff like that, way before the device gives out. And it never comes back.

[pheew]

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

Sure. And that was an exact reason why Nokia (!???) locks N900 at 600MHz during phone call from start until your party answers...

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

It was discovered that running at HIGHER frequency consumes LESS power PER CPU CYCLE. So, for finite load it is much more efficient.

Of course, it is not for stupid scripts like while true; do; true; done...

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

I can add something interesting here - I also ran that test and monitored battery and heat. I should say that it is not very big actually (I have SmartReflex switched ON). Actually, the back cover is not heated at all.

But I definitely see a HUGE power consumption during some video processing even with thumbnailer tracker in background. It is definitely not CPU (and I don't use overclocked kernel) but it is on CPU chip. I suspect it is SGX or OneNAND R/W - some people reported a very hot device and battery exhausted fast with a moderate CPU usage.

So, I don't think the CPU heat is an issue for this specific ARM CPU. Nokia doesn't rush to publish PR1.2 which should fix at least some of video related issues.

Re: Small app to keep processor at 500Mhz, possible?
 

This formula doesn't work well for this CPU. Look this - http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=3286

It is clear that frequency increase 4 times (from 125 to 500) increases CPU energy consumption not to 4 times but 30% or (in worst case) - twice.