Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

This is silly.. A few years back I bought the N800 and it had all the things I wanted in a PDA (except a good PIM suite, but nobody's perfect). Life was good. Then came N810 which was essentially a N800 with some upgrades and some downgrades, but I decided to stay with my N800 because it still had everything I needed.

Then there was nothing.. no device, just talk about the Fremantle and N900. I was ready, willing and able to buy it as soon as it launches, but when it finally came it just didn't have the features I needed. It was a step in the mobile phone direction instead of the mobile computer direction.

So I was hoping that maybe Nokia will release another device (rumors of RX-71) with bigger screen to accompany it. No dice.

So then came MeeGo and LG's GW990 which looked promising as hell... sweet big screen and all the goodies to go. Sure, it wasn't Nokia, but there's no guarantee Nokia will ever release a big screened device again, so I was ready to risk it. But guess what? Cancelled!!

So here I am, hoping that Dell Streak actually makes it into production and gets MeeGo some day. It doesn't have TV out and I'm a bit hesitant if Dell can actually make a device that won't break in day-to-day usage, but we'll see. I would really like to buy a Nokia device with Maemo because of all the good experiences I've had with it, but I'm starting to feel like a Johnny Mnemonic in this video ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujm9fG7XGZE

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

Couldn't agree with you more. The funny thing is, I know exactly which few forum members would have thanked you for this post (if this thread was not in "off topic")...

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

I'm a bit unhappy with Nokia's direction myself (but oh well). The only reason why I even bought an N900 was I was tired of carrying two devices (a dumbphone and my n800) and I wanted the capabilities of a pocketable mobile computer since I find it immensely useful as a student. Right now it has the software, but I have to deal with the reduced screen size.

Though after I graduate I doubt I'll have to carry around a mobile computer everyday so I'm moving onto a three device solution.

Smartphone (Android...or Meego if anyone can put out a good one), large Tablet (Meego or Android), Desktop (Linux)

I'm extremely skeptical of Nokia's prospects in creating a platform that can compete with Android, Apple, Microsoft, etc.. The planned setup is great so far (QT compatibility across devices, blah blah) but I think Android is evolving (or rather.. is it upgrading for robots?) too quickly in too many areas (see Google TV and car integration) that it'll snuff out Meego before it has the chance to get enough hardware makers on board.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

I saw this happening a few months ago.

Nokia were to busy planning their strategy while Apple & Google keep making inroads with thier platforms.

I think MeeGo is the last chance Nokia have got to compete in any serious way (with smartphone market).

Otherwise Nokia will be confined to sell "budget" smartphones (e.g. £200-300ish) while Apple and Google can enjoy bigger margins on "premium" smartphones (e.g. £400 upwards).

If Nokia fail with MeeGo then Intel and others may be in a stronger position to compete.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

The only downside with the n900 is the small screen and just a three row hw keyboard. If i could get a Maemo device with a 4.5" screen and a "normal" keyboard. Also a bigger rootfs with full fully functional programs like bash and such.. a bigger ram would be great. And a way to not need the MyDocs partition and the ability to install normal debs. Then i would be in heaven.

I am not so turned on about MeeGo and the RPM it will drag with it. Would rather have a debian device.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

why not just ssh into your firewall protected home linux pc? then you have real linux in your pocket.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

The small screen was the biggest let down for me too, although there are some other things too like lack of USB OTG and tethering to a phone.

I'm hoping it'll turn out to be just a nuisance but would prefer debian too.

Too cumbersome. I have a background in PDA's and want to be able to also do things quickly without connecting and logging in and stuff like that. I might go this route with some programs though... a good idea :)

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

Honestly if you went with the larger screen we could do a virtual keyboard with no HW keyboard and thin the device out. I prefer HW keyboards, but they make devices heavier. The only reason i do not like virtual keyboards is because my fat thumbs can't type well on them.

However N900 has done a decent job at mixing the options which is a nice step forward. Better than my old Win Mobile phone.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

The N900 has done a better job at being a decent Linux handheld than pretty much every other Linux-based device to date. Everything else seems to be Android devices that don't really provide what you expect to get from a Linux type OS.

It could be worse. You could have bought a Motorola device that is so locked down you can't even root it permanently, much less load a Cyanogen ROM on it.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

speaking of keyboards has anyone seen the swype virtual keyboard being used on the samsung galaxy s? that look like it could be quite a bit faster then a hardware keyboard.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

I'm more upset about the sheer lack of communication from Nokia. You put something out that's Linux based, have an active community and don't exactly communicate with that community... that's a big problem.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

Yeah, you can't really compare Android and others to Maemo, because they are built on top of Linux whereas Maemo is Linux.

That's true. Even if there are jailbreaks and ROMs and what ever available, I want a device that's designed to be used freely. I really don't like the idea, that after every SW update I need to find a new crack to my phone just to use it the way I like.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

I kind of understand Nokias position on this. I still want to believe that they're doing everything they can. It's just that nowadays when even a slightest rumor or picture surfaces Engadget and others are swarming all over it... I can imagine what kind of PR nightmare they could find themselves if they were as open as the OS community wants. Think about for example the disclaimers after the first MeeGo release. They made damn sure everybody knows exactly what it is and especially what it isn't.

The competition being as fierce as it is, I've accepted that there are some questions that just aren't answered. Sadly ''will you be releasing a 4,5" tablet soon or are you even planning one'' is one of them.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

That would require

a) a consistently fast mobile internet connection
b) a consistently fast home connection
c) a computer to be powered on (or WOL) which is also associated with power costs

Entirely possible, but it's more cost effective to just carry around a pocket computer that runs Linux for me.

I completly agree.

That's one thing I'll have to carefully watch for if I buy an Android device in a few years. Probably, let the market release the devices, then look at which ones are rooted and can boat Cyanogen ROMs.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

Don't laugh, but I'm looking for Amazon to come up with something to my taste.

The new update to the Kindle had some subtle but significant changes, and I think they have to go color and maybe even stay with free or low-cost Internet. These days, I sometimes use my Kindle to answer email or read the NY Times because I'm using it as a reader and it's quite easy to use it rather than the laptop or N900 that are sitting close by. And I like the Kindle keyboard better than the N900 keyboard.

P.S. The Kindle is Linux-based!

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

I would not be surprised at all to see Amazon ultimately switch to MeeGo for that.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

I'm really not into Linux, but still...

Could you people please explain to me why the N8x0 or the N900 is not a decent Linux handheld?

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

The Kindle is interesting, but mostly valuable as a book reader. Their use of DRM and remote-delete to remove people's copies of 1984 was supremely ironic and removed my urge to ever buy one.

And while the Kindle is Linux based, it too (like Android) does not offer what one would expect from a Linux environment, intentionally so as it's built from the same perspective as the iPhone (the underpinnings are invisible and inaccessible to you.)

They:
- use common Linux toolkits and libraries, instead of reinventing the wheel
- don't hide the underpinnings from the user, allowing access not only to the console but to the root user account

They falter on:
- not being nearly open enough, thus inhibiting the ability for users to truly "roll their own" should they desire (see Cyanogen.)
- Tiny screens and small keyboards are uncomfortable (but better than none)

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

Note that I'm talking about the next Kindle, not this one; some of the problems you mention can be solved. In fact, Amazon has gone a long way towards making its DRM useless -- I am reading several Amazon books on my N900. And with Kindle for PC you can read its books practically everywhere, plus of course Kindle for iPad and Kindle for Android, etc.

In fact, I have suspected Amazon of finding a way of weakening its DRM deliberately so it doesn't have to confront the book vendors with the fact that their books are becoming less and less protected.

Interesting fact: It's now almost as easy to read the NY Times for free on your Kindle as it is to pay for the NY Times on your Kindle...

On the 1984 issue: I'm not sure that you can escape the basic problem that as cloud-like storage gets more widespread, lightning strikes from the clouds become more common. The users fought back against what happened to 1984 (which, by the way, you can get for free right now from the Australian Gutenberg site) and Amazon is not that likely to repeat their gaffe.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

I would love to hear a rational reason for the lack of communication from Nokia pertaining the Maemo/MeeGo platform. I'm sure one exists; I just cannot figure out how it's beneficial or even a halfway good thing. Hell... even Balmer communicates every now-and-then. Might not like a damn thing he says, but he does communicate.

I do too. But now? Nokia has to prove it to me. And so far, they're really lacking.

Any speculative coverage in this part of the game... is good coverage in my eyes.

To be honest, that was calculated and I understood why. It was for developers only. So as it stood, I watched the developers response... which was rather minimal.

My problem with MeeGo - and I hope you all don't mind me sharing it here - is that it's with Intel. Intel combined with Macromedia to help bolster Shockwave and introduced Shockwave3D. Guess what happened? They didn't do anything else with that platform... I mean, they preceded damn near everything else, could have been scripted with JavaScript or Lingo - which, if you had a C background, it looked damn similar - and it was downright powerful including OpenGL and DirectX (for Windows) acceleration... in 2000! And yet... they didn't push it, they didn't support it, and years later, it was never pushed, nor supported, nor updated.

It's nothing more than just... right now, Nokia isn't communicating, they feel as if they will show something that will wow people - that invariably won't happen (sorry Nokia fans, but I doubt I'll be wow'ed) and ultimately it casts a serious doubt on prior iterations of their products. Nokia's stop-go-stop-restart method of product generations just plain sucks.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

Wait.. is it Amazon or 3rd parties that have weakened the DRM? Or is it 3rd parties have cracked the DRM and Amazon isn't actively updating it? And what are you using to read it (FBReader, mGutenberg, PDF readers, etc..?)

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

It was weakened by third parties when Amazon made Kindle books easier to access using Kindle for PC.

I'm reading the books with FBReader, what else, my favorite!

There is a pause for the moment because the Amazon upgrades have meant that you have to use an earlier version of Kindle for PC to decode the books you buy, but to me the whole Kindle for PC, Kindle for this and for that is in itself a slow release of Amazon books out into the wild.

For further information, Google the words Kindle and Unswindle.

I don't want to conceal my opinion that though weakening DRM is a good idea, making it inconvenient for users to copy books and give them away (or sell them) to their friends is pretty much essential. That would doubtless be way off topic for this thread.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

Yeah, I was familar with Unswindle, I was just wondering if Amazon really did weaken their DRM. =P

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

Some DRM issues I don't understand that well, but it struck me the minute I saw Kindle for PC, "whoa, you'd think this would make it easier to free this text," and very soon thereafter Kindle for PC was being used to create DRM-free books. So, moving Kindle books to the PC was putting them in a less-protected environment, thereby de facto weakening the DRM.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

My own inexpert opinion is that the N900 is a decent Linux device, especially with EasyDebian installed. It would have been nice if they'd got USB host working though.

I can certainly see the appeal of a bigger version too!

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

Definition of decent is highly dependant on a person. I think that they are the only decent linux handhelds, but they don't fill the other requirements I personally have.

I have a feeling that it's a combination of "if we communicate, our competitors will know our next move" and "we don't want to publish any information before it's rock solid". As I have it Meego is still so new a concept, that maybe they don't know the answers we seek even themselves.

Let's say there was a device coming between N810 and N900 and another device along N900, but they decided to axe them at some point. If they would have been open and told about them in advance, the decision to cancel a device would have been big news, even if it's standard business with every major player, but they just don't talk about it.

Well the amount of speculative coverage would probably skyrocket if they communicated openly. Maybe it's a good thing, or maybe the blogosphere would even learn to back off eventually, but at first I'm thinking PR nightmare.

I admit it's a tricky topic and there's no simple way to go about it.

Re: Rant about not getting a decent linux handheld
 

Thank you Naranek for a very well written answer/opinion.