Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

It seems Sun are porting the UI part of "phone ME advanced" to the N800 for JavaOne next week.

http://blogs.sun.com/hinkmond/entry/..._of_crunchtime

Yes!

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

This is awesome!

And of course utterly obliterates any statements of those swearing this would never happen.

:D

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

In what capacity will this improve the N800?

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

This will add new applications to the N800. This is a port of J2ME: Java 2 Micro Edition. It's not the standard edition of Java that runs on desktop PCs and the like.

I think it's interesting that Sun chose to implement J2ME instead of J2SE. It perhaps reveals what they think of the N800: a phone-like device with phone-like resources. J2ME applications are more display-restricted than J2SE devices, but tend to be more communications-aware. They are designed to run on resource-sparse platforms.

As an example, go to "http://j2me.ngphone.com/opensource/".

I wonder what Sun's other Java/N800 plans are?

-F

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

Thanks for the info.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

That's a very wide spread mis-understanding. What you describe is J2ME CLDC aka Phone ME Feature.

What Sun are porting is J2ME CDC aka Phone ME Advanced. CDC is the basis of the versions of Java used in Blu-ray players and TV set-top boxes. Personal Profile (mentioned in the Sun blog) builds on CDC to create the successor to PersonalJava which was found on the old Nokia Communicator devices.

Technically CDC is considerably closer to J2SE than it is to CLDC. There's even a subset of swing which can run on it although I don't think that's been open sourced yet.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

That makes much more sense, traveller, thanks!

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

Thanks for the clarification. A CDC would imply that the implementation uses a standard JVM core, not a KVM core. And this would allow more conventional Java programming, which would be indeed be closer to J2SE. That's good news.

I still find it interesting that Sun did not port J2SE. The vision of the N800 seems to be more like a set-top box than a Linux computer. Didn't PersonalJava just kind of fade away? For example, it was built into SymbianOS for a while (Nokia Communicators, SonyEricsson P800), then Symbian started embracing J2ME.

I hope this takes off better and faster.

-F

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

I hope we will be able to do some kind of GUI stuff with this port. I am a java programmer myself and would love to be able to do some swing on my N800. I want to do some home automation stuff and was not looking forward to learn python ;)

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

How many seperate individuals/groups are working on porting J2ME to the Internet Tablet platform now? I reckon it's at least 3 now - shame they can't work together!

An official Sun port would be quite cool though as it would lend further credebility to the IT platform and perhaps may even receive official backing from Nokia - the assertion that Nokia think Flash and AJAX fills the void left by Java will now be challenged. :)

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

Heh. Was there ever any doubt?

;)

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

sorry, but for a novice what does this mean. Is there word for java - doubt it :(

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

Another novice question. Will I be able to use a java trading application online with this implementation of java?

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

There are hundreds of data specific internet apps already available. I have had a WiFi and BT enabled iPAQ for years. There are also hundreds of PDA apps written for WinMo.

I didn't feel it was worth the effort to carry it until I had a J2ME emulator installed that could run MIDP 2.0. Only then could I easily check an investment portfolio in near real time and initiate trades, check the OAG data base for available flights to and from any location world wide, determine what the house next door sold for recently, even log on to an intranet and securely manage and edit files.

True, I could only do one function at a time and info could not be shared easily between apps but that is my hope for Linux. Using OS specific commands you could possibly cut and paste or even share classes.

The fact is for most people, even the sexiest electronic PIM features don't outweigh the cost/benefits of just keeping a pad and pencil in their pocket instead. That pro'ly won't change as long the electronic PIM requires a power source other than the human hand. :)

However, quick and simple internet queries can be invaluable at times. A portable internet connection is worth having for those times and can't be generated using any hand motions that I know of.
J2ME apps are small in size and most avoid all the commercial internet BS because of that. There isn't much room for Trojans and they are transparent enough to easily monitor if there was.

BTW, I'd love to see what this >>http://www.gearlog.com/2007/03/hands...rst_iden_l.php VM looks like. Pretty elegant I would imagine knowing how stingy Motorola/iDEN is with code.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

A J2SE JVM with JIT is blocking on GTK 2.10 support, which is earmarked for the N800 anyways --- literally as soon as GTK 2.10 becomes available, I'll have it ready.

J2ME is far more useful, at least to me, since it focuses on phone-centric apps. Small, lightweight, simple, and connected. GMail Mobile leaps to mind.

J2ME Polish is a good example, incidentally, of what can be done.

Given the "fun" of getting even basic PhoneME running, I'm happy to see actual Sun programmers dealing with it :)

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

^Exactly... and thanks BTW. :cool:


I use a dozen or so daily from my phone even at 21kbps data speeds. I am looking forward to using these apps with the N800.

Also: Coding a J2ME app is relatively painless with plenty of community support available. So easy in fact that I can see companies designing custom apps in house for distribution and use by their consumers...

Think access to your banking records or apps that determine a customers needs for the size, shape, and availability of the product they sell.

On the plus side is that if you don't need that info, you don't have to load or run that app and you are not deluged with distractions and annoyances when you go to the net for the info that you do need.

...kind of like the way the web was before the dot com boom. :)

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

I can't wait for this realization. Of course, it just pushes me closer to having to break my MS/Visual Basic shackles and learn another programming paradigm...

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

Check some of these out... >> http://www.getjar.com/software/Java/Generic

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

Does this mean we may get to utilized the java accelerator chip finally:)

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

Forgive my ignorance in this: but does any of this mean that it might be possible to use GoToMyPC - which uses a Java client to log in to a remote PC - on the N800?

I already run a VNC server on my home PC and access it using the N800 VNC client, but GoToMyPC would be preferable for a number of reasons to do with privacy and security....

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

AFAIK here's how it boils down: if it's a pure Java issue, then having a Java client running on the N800 *should* facilitate access to site functions that we currently can't. BUT-- if browser checking is involved, that adds another wrinkle.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

I remember a Sun blog entry somewhere which explained that it wouldn't make a difference. I don't remember the full details or the reference but I think the theory was that the hardware accelerator only accelerated the already quick operations and not the slow operations.

You may be able to find more with some googling.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

If he is referring to a J2ME app it would be browser independent.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

Let's also not confuse Java applets (which require a browser plugin and a full blown Java runtime), with Java applications (Java SE) such as JEdit (which require a full blown Java runtime), Java SE applications using SWT such as Eclipse (which require a full blown Java runtime and a port of SWT), Java ME applications (like you get on a mobile phone, which require a Java ME runtime) and Java PE applications (like you get on cutdown devices).

Provision of any single one does not guarantee any of the others. Java for writing applications (i.e. either Java ME, PE or SE) would be fantastic; but is only one part necessary for Java applets in a web browser to work.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

So whats the status on this? Are there any betas available to play with?

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

Build information and binaries here: http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Mobile...tformsNokia800

Ton.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

I received the following error at that url in IE7:

When I went to email the page to the site admin, it rendered fine in Outlook 2003.

Go figure.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

Hmmm, i see this....

http://i14.tinypic.com/4v37ali

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

That's what I get in Outlook. Error in IE7 though.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

Hmmm... Imagine, Micro$oft stopping access to a Java site.... Naw that would be an act of a monopoly... doesn't sound like something M$ would do.

However let's not get excited, sun has NOT ported any AWT or UI to the nokia device. Honestly I don't think they get the importance of Embedded mobile devices. And while M$ may, if WinMobile is the answer....well we are in trouble... or maybe I don't understand the question. ;)

JamVM and GnuClasses are the best we can hope for, for a while.
Maybe sun or someone else (please nokia help with a Java port to the 770/800) will step in and make something usable.

FYI.. I'm a JavaME developer, and Pi$$ed at $un for leaving us (java developers) hanging when it comes to portable java.

Sorry.. don't mean to sound like flame bait. it's been a bad monday.

-Shawn

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

alright, so if i install this, i will be able to access sites with java? Like those annoying e-banking login?

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

At the last Java SIG in New York, two guys from Sun talked about JavaFX and JavaFXMobile. The latter is their next OS for mobile devices. What's interesting is that they mentioned they ported it to "Nokia device with Linux on it", which is of course N800 in "couple of days!?". I don't believe there are any downloads yet, but it's very promising development.

JavaFXMobile is very advanced, modern OS built in Java working on top of Linux kernel. What I got from them is that they are trying to make all the CLDC/MIDP crap eventually obsolete and run something more similar to J2SE on mobile devices.

So, don't despair, Java is coming one way or the other.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

I have a question regarding the Phoneme port to the N800. Is is a fullblown implementation of J2ME?

I'm planning to develop Java ME GUI Apps and consider running them on a N800 as well. I wonder if it is possible, but I haven't found a clear statement so far. I'm a little discouraged though as it says :

" OK, Now What Can I do with This?
For starters, you can check out running OSGi on the N800."
http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Mobile...tformsNokia800

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

http://f.hatena.ne.jp/images/fotolif...0509015102.jpg
manage to find a image of javafx mobile running on the N800.

Re: Sun porting Java UI API to N800
 

In the meantime, you could always run vnc over an ssh tunnel - it's as private and secure as you could want, with the added advantage that your firewall only has to leave ssh ports open.