Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Hi All,

Recently I noticed N900 screens on sale over at ebay (some here & here). These screens are resistive type and exactly similar (that's what I think) to the ones used in the N900. Buying the screen also gets you instructions and necessary tools to carefully replace it all by yourself.

Now as the screen is user replaceable, I was wondering, if we can use a capacitive screen instead of the resistive screen. Not sure about the compatible connectors and all other stuff though.

As I understand the main reason why MeeGo (with Nokia UI on top) won't be officially supported on N900 is because Nokia's UI are quite optimized for multi-touch/capacitive screens. Hoping that a capacitive screen on our N900 would be able to run Nokia's UI happily.

Any thoughts/experiences?

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Why? Whats the benefit of Multitouch except for pinch to zoom (wow) and rotate images with two fingers (how could this ever be usefull? i mean if I want to turn the picture i just turn the phone...)

Sure! Maybe Nokia will support MeeGo for the n900 if we all replace our screen with an capacitive one!
Seriously, the main reason is because the n900 is dead and Nokia is lazy.


I thinki every UI made for Multitouch will be useable with non-multitouch screen. Just replace pinch to zoom with swirl to zoom and rotate with accelerometer.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

I use Nitdroid a lot, and this could possibly help it`s progress!
Then, on meego, and N8 apps if they could ever be avaiable to N900,
I would prefer to have a multitouch screen.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

That's quite short-sighted.

Why do we need TV remotes, when we can walk to the tv and press the channel up/down button 300 times?


To OP:
You have to check if the N900 mainboard supports the connections. The screen may also need drivers from whichever OS you plan to use.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

The touch screen controller (Texas Instruments TSC2005) of the N900 only supports resistive. Even if you can make the connector fit it won't work with capacitive.

Just forget about it, devices like this aren't made with hardware upgrades in mind.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Well, but as an example, using it on Nitdroid, can`t we use other drivers?
I'm not sure how open source the android is, but maybe the drivers are
models specific? If not, it`s possible to set it up, not?

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

It is not only a driver problem but of different chip controller. Capacitive and resistive touch screens are very different technolgies and need different hardware for interfacing. May be someone can build an I2C interface to a capacitive controller and then a driver in the kernel would be able to use it, but is not a simple way.....
And what about mechanical compatibility?

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

The comparison to TV remote is wrong:
better:
why do we need a TV remote that you can only use with gloves made of anti-static conductive foam and where you have to press two buttons at once to get one action.
:D

Sorry but I never needed Multitouch up to now.
In my opinion a user interface that needs two fingers instead
of one is somewhat broken.
;)

It seems that resistive touchscreen can do multitouch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistive_touchscreen
I for myself do not see the need for it.

Why I rather like resistive touchscreen:
"Resistive touchscreen technology works well with almost any stylus-like object. In some circumstances, this is more desirable than a capacitive touchscreen, which has to be operated with a capacitive pointer, such as a bare finger."
and
"Capacitive sensors detect anything which is conductive or having dielectric properties.
...
A standard stylus cannot be used for capacitive sensing, unless it is tipped with some form of conductive material, such as anti-static conductive foam.

Capacitive touchscreens are more expensive to manufacture and offer a lesser degree of accuracy than resistive touchscreens.[5]

Capacitive touchscreens cannot be used with gloves, and can fail to sense correctly with even the smallest amounts of water - you could use a resistive screen briefly in the rain, or with wet hands, not so with a capacitive screen.
..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_sensing

I think this is a huge disadvantage for capacitive touchscreens
as I always want the choice between stylus, my finger and a glove
(if it is cold outside).
Needing an additional property ("having dielectric properties")
is senseless for such devices.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

i would only consider doing the replacement if it was with a resistive multitouch screen (or some other technology better than resistive, which capacitive isn't)

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Sorry, let me put it in simpler terms.

Multitouch is a different/simpler method of doing the same action (pinch to zoom is faster/simpler than pressing a button x number of times to find the perfect zoom factor).

You say there is no need for a different/simpler method.

The remote is a different/simpler method for changing channels on a TV.

So, by your views, there is no need for a different/simpler method for changing channels on a TV, i.e. a remote.

I support capacitive on the N900, but it would take too much effort and have very little pay-off in the end.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

I support anything that adds choice and features (and hackability) to the n900.

I don't get why this is used as capacitive vs resistive battleground.

You're not losing resistive screen on n900. You're getting the possibility of using capacitive screen on n900.

ps: check out Atmel maxtouch.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

multitouch is quite helpful for gaming, and it does allow for certain interface approaches not possible with single touch

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

This whole thread is ridiculous as it's doubtful that you'll find a compatible capacitive screen, never mind integrating the chip required to drive the thing into the system which would have to go, at best, on a secondary PCB for which there is almost no space inside the N900.

That and few people are going to have the skill to do it.

tl;dr: you might be able to hack one on, but good luck finding the parts and doing it in a way that isn't totally rickety.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

I agree, but 2 points: for an hacker nothing is impossible ; "rickety" is not in the vocabulary :-)

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

here's an example of resistive multitouch: http://www.viddler.com/explore/engadget/videos/292/

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Well sure, but the majority of people I see asking for this think it's just some "plug it in and go" update, not the blue-wire solder covered mess that it would truly be.

And by rickety I mean "you wouldn't want to carry it in your pocket anymore," in which case you'd be better off doing it with a Beagleboard.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Do we have access to all hardware features with the current touchscreen driver or is it like with the camera and FCam?

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

It is rather clear that a "plug it and go" solution is out of discussion. If it would be feasable, it would be only for experts with no scare of damaging the phone.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Yeah, I don't understand it myself either.

Though it'd be pretty pointless considering any developer would only write software for a resistive device (unless he/she also modded their screen). And even with Meego or NITDroid you'd have to find a group of people who also modded their N900s (unless for vanilla Meego you can just grab some multi-touch functionality from another type of image).

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Afaics the multitouch is limited by the size of the window that is
displayed (at max the screen size of N900).
Which will also result in using multitouch multiple
times for certain zoom factors.
In that case there is no difference to buttons or other zoom
utilities.
Correct?

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Which interface approaches are these?

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

1. It doesn't have to be linear.
2. They can make use of acceleration to control the scale, just like on mice.

ps: try one.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Because there is no other good way to implement the action. Multi touch, like a right mouse button, is used when other normal methods FAIL. IOW, when it friggin' fails to zoom in otherwise while the ability to zoom in is important. Nokia's hack is to swirl clockwise or anti clockwise which 1) takes longer 2) is a novel movement/gesture normally not made (circles) which might be related to that it doesn't work properly (not always detected its supposed to be zooming).

My mouse requires 2 fingers at least. I find your statement hilarious given Macs for a long time only had 1 mouse button. :D a traditional trackpad or trackpoint as found on a ThinkPad also requires 2 (1 for pointing, 1 for clicking) whereas there is less movement by the hand in the case of newer ThinkPads as well as newer Apple devices sporting one.

Nokia N8 has a solution for this which is provided in selected countries (e.g. Finland). Since I'm already using a bare finger to interact with N900, I wouldn't mind being forced having to use a bare finger (ie. a capacitive screen). The latest Nokia devices seem to have a capacitive screen, including the new N-Series flagship N8. So unfortunately for you it appears Nokia is drifting away from resisitive. Same happened to Palm, Apple, et al.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

1,2: same accounts for other one finger zoom possibilities

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Ok, you are right, the swirl is not the best way either.

So now we compare mouse and trackball to the possibilities on
a smartphone or tablet?
;)

The only argument that comes to my mind pro multitouch is the
problem to make a difference between move and zoom when
using fingers on the screen.
If it is not for using fingers on the screen, the zoom button of the
N900 can do all the other stuff (acceleration if pressed longer,
zoom once if touched once).


As I said: if it has to be accurate the stick has advantages.


That's bad.
:(
Wonder what will be the difference to Android and Apple then?

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

these 2 have their own advantages. Capacitive have multi touch capability while resistive have pressure capability. Both doesn't have both capabilities so they should not be compared at all. It's just like comparing the colors black and white?

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

If you look at the SNES emulator for Android phones, you get the buttons superimposed over the game.

With a lack of hardware keyboard, capacitive screens are the only way to support multiple inputs.
This is not a problem with the N900 as the hardware keyboard offers that support.

As I see it this is the only real argument for capacitive over resistive.
For ideal function a resistive screen needs to be accompanied by a keyboard capable of multiple inputs.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

does Meego designed with Capacitive in mind or Resistive in Mind?
:cool: :confused:

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

What is stopping the N900 from having multitouch resistive

Is it the drivers, the screen itself, or the hardware chipset

or a combination of all 3 ?

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

when there is less responses... i just feel like the end of N900 times..

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Two of the above. Drivers are comparatively trivial.

More like people know this is a fruitless topic.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

not really, multitouch means you need both hands free to zoom in and then move the page around because it doesn't keep the focal point. I actually find it somewhat cack handed, and when i see people using it they invariably place it on the table. I prefer rotate to zoom, and it can be done one handed in portrait. Besides, i would always take the multiple benefits of resistive over one possibly more convenient facet of capacitive. Without resistive, our icons would need to be bigger thus losing screen space, using the phone wiith damp fingers or in the drizzle rain wouldn't work and we'd sacrifice mypaint.
Technology history is filled with lesser capable innovations taking the lead, so just because capacitive is more popular by manufacturers doesn't mean much. And users, well i find most capacitive users had that as their first touchscreen and know nothing of actually using a resistive. I doubt many would care if resistive was the indusry standard, and if multitouch was implemented on it not a single soul would care. The same is not true if resistive stopped being used

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

multi-touch is awesome, for those that say they don't need it or want it, then just shut up. I have an iPod Touch and love the multi-touch on it. Sometimes, i just wish when browsing the web or viewing photos on my N900 could be better with multi-touch, coz i can easily pinch to zoom without using the damn volume up/down button, or having to swirl my finger in a circle on the screen to zoom, which is stupid and doesn't work as well btw.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Personally, I find the fact that you have to zoom means the software is lacking. The page should automatically scale such that -most- of the text is readable. Either that, or 100% default normally.
Generally, with MicroB, I don't have to zoom. Really, the only time I have to zoom is when MicroB won't accept my "right-click"/long touch on a URL.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

If I were to buy a 3.5" Multi-touch capable Resistive screen. Would that work?

Seeing as the display controller only supports resistive, surely that would work. Then its a simple case of :

a) Making sure it has the same connectors

b) Getting drivers for it



Unless for some reason the display controller ONLY supports single touch resistive screens.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

I don't get this capacitive hype, seriously.

Why would I want to downgrade this accurate resistive screen to a crappy capacitive one that I can't even use the stylus with?

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

Practically, while holding it in the sideways, specially while gaming,
Two thumbs are free, and its free in the most comfortable position.

And people start complaning about it.

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

No need to worry guy's, i have found the solution. Simply follow this easy 6 step guide!

1. Buy a Nokia N8
2. Strap the N8 onto the top of your N900, with the bottom of the N8 facing your screen.
3. Install X11VNC on your N900.
4. Install a VNC client on your Nokia N8.
5. Using the VNC client on the Nokia N8, connect to the VNC service running on your N900.
6. Enjoy your N900 with capacitive touchscreen!

Please note, these instructions are untested. While i suggest using a Nokia N8, other devices with capacitive displays may work also, though i suggest sticking with Nokia devices to ensure maximum compatibility.

If anyone tries this out and gets it working, please let me know!

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

[QUOTE=JamesU;866050]
....4. Install a VNC client on your Nokia N8.
5. Using the VNC client on the Nokia N8, connect to the VNC service running on your N900....

QUOTE]

Network latency would be too high to be usable :D

Re: Capacitive screen for N900?
 

[QUOTE=xtreemneo;866122]Not if you assigned an ip address to the N900 USB and then connected the devices via usb :)

Not sure that would work still but it would definitely be faster :)