some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Hi this is my first post on this forum.
I currently have a nokia e90 communicator and i like it, but i am thinking to upgrade to n900. Before i do that i would like to ask some tehnical questions:
1-Is it possible to have multiple operating systems to boot from? (i would like to have meego,android,ubuntu all three there to choose from)
2-is meego working usable on n900?
3-is usb host possibe?(i would go for it even if i have to modify the phone's hardware)
4-if i overclock the cpu, are there big chances to damage the phone?
5-what is the maximum frequency that the cpu can be overclocked to?

Sorry if i posted this in the wrong section, but i am a newbie :D

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Hi, welcome... I want to be the first person to say this to you politely, because I was in your shoes a couple of months ago.

Try searching for your answer before you post.

As for getting the n900, if there is another phone out there that can do everything you asked I would still get the N900, best device I ever had.

CHEERS!:cool:

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Yes, to some degree. It isn't an easily installable package (except for maybe Nitdroid) but it's certainly possible.

It works and is "usable" depending on your goals. If you mean daily use as a phone, look for MeeGo 1.2 this April.

Yes, but there are a number of road blocks that have hampered progress.

Not immediately. In time, yes.

Depends on how lucky you are. Some people can barely get past 800MHz, others have gone 1.2GHz. I recommend not overclocking.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

That is incorrect.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Well then by all means expand on why I am wrong. Don't just go and state "You Are Wrong" and leave it at that.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

I have been overclocking at 250/850 and undervolting for about 6 months... It works absolutely fine.

Of course there's a risk, but you are indeed incorrect!

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Thank you for your fast answers guys.
What could happen in time?
And another question: if i boot ubuntu, can i install wine and run some windows applications with it?

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

I've been overclocking my Dell Axim X50v for 4 years with absolutely no ill-effects.

There is always the possibility of damaging your phone by overclocking but the risk is clearly negligible.

I have not seen any reports of overclocking damaging a phone but welcome posts that suggest otherwise.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

You would need a debian packaged version of WINE that's compiled for ARM.

If you find that, let me know. :p

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

overclocking MAY damage the cpu ,by overclocking , you increase the frequency and voltage of the cpu , you may increase the frequency only , however it won't be stable , so you would end up increasing voltage also.
increasing the voltage will make the cpu drain higher current and will generate more heat , it is heat that mainly damages the cpu , anyway how hot will the phone get ? not much , using wifi or 3g will generate much much more heat than simply overclocking .

If you use power-kernel there are multiple voltage profiles to choose from , also someone here made a script to automatically change cpu voltage and frequency depending on the cpu temperature .

so the cpu gets damaged over time ?
no one can give you a certain answer.. however , as a fact electronic components have a really long life time (tens of years), if it's going to be reduced , it's no big deal , most probably you won't be using the n900 anymore after 2-3 years from now , that doesn't mean that it will stop working after 3 years , however it will become obsolete by that time , that you will want to replace it .

still, I have to say : do it at your own risk..

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

1) MeeGo is not ready for daily use, probably not until April, and as it will be a community supported project may never be acceptable for daily use depending on what your needs are.

Android (nitdroid) is close, but does not yet have voice calling support or GPS, and has a few other issues. Hopefully these issues will be worked out sooner rather than later.

Ubuntu, doesn't have voice support etc, probably usable as a mini computer, also check out easy-debian.

2) See above, I wouldn't consider it usable at this point.

3) USB Host, not possible at this point. There has been some recent successes, but nothing really ready beyond very alpha type stuff. Hopefully, at some point this will be ready for end-users.

4)Overclocking can certainly damage the N900. Extent and probability are unknown. If you are concerned I wouldn't overclock. I don't think there have been any reports of anyone killing their N900 from overclocking yet.

5) luck of the draw. Some units do better than other units.

I would suggest you purchase the N900 for what it can do today, not what it may be able to do tomorrow. Otherwise, you may end up regretting your decision when some of the things you are looking for don't turn out like you expected / hoped. Also bear in mind that the N900 is not a phone and is missing many basic phone features that you may be used to (group ringtones, voice dialing, etc), some have been addressed by the community, others haven't.

I would suggest that if you are asking these questions, you haven't done enough research, and probably shouldn't buy it (at least until you do a lot more research).

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

You made a claim that seems to contradict known facts - 7 months of widespread overclocking, and not a single verified hardware damage report - without any support. Substantiate your claim, and I will expand on where you are wrong.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Hey i dont get bored so fast (I still have my psion revo wich is 10 years old :D and still work like a dream )
And i won't replace it, i will probably buy another phone (whenever a phone better than n900 will come out) but will keep the n900 forever like my psion :)

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Just as a tangential point here, if you're coming from an E90 you WILL get pissed off at the N900's keyboard, as it's shockingly small, cramped, and bad compared to the E90's. It'll take a lot of getting used to.
Also, depending on your usage and amount of research you've done, be aware that Maemo has some significant functionality impairments compared to your E90. Most significant of these is probably email functionality, the N900's Modest install isnt a patch on even S60's default mail client, let alone ProfiMail.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

speaking about keyboard, is there any keymapping application for n900? like magickey that i have installed in the e90. You probably ask why do i need this-well mostly for games that does not allow costum key configuration.
For example in order to play kobo deluxe(a pc game ported to symbian os) with keys: a-left,w-up,x-down,d-right i have to use that app, becase game does not have controls config

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Well i usualy check my mail from phone's internet browser, so no problem with that :)

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

While there haven't been any reports of overclocking damaging a N900, that doesn't mean that their haven't been any damaged. I'm not sure how "widespread" overclocking is.

More to the point, there is ample evidence that overclocking can damage hardware in the x86 world. There have been many fried cpus, gpus, memory, burst capacitors, etc. I haven't fried anything, but I did seriously corrupt hard drives while overclocking (wait I think I did kill a stick of ram). Bottom line, in my experience, overclocking can kill hardware, and you'd have a hard time convincing me otherwise. It's irresponsible to say that there is no danger in overclocking.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

That's not quite true, none of the overclocking profiles go above the default voltage for 600Mhz when clocked up to 1GHz, it is only at frequencies higher than that it will go above standard operating voltages (unless you create a custom OC profile that does otherwise). So with most N900s you will be able to get some level of overclocking without increasing the voltage. The OC profiles actually focus on decreasing the voltages for normal operation to increase the battery life.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

yes.. thats right , you may want to increase voltage above stock limit only when modifying / creating a custom profile so that it can operate at a frequency , that was originally unstable , example , you install power kernel , and go with ideal profile , you try to increase maximum frequency to 1150 MHz , your n900 reboots after a couple of minutes, that means it's unstable , you can edit the ideal profile and increase voltage in steps and try again and again till you find a stable configuration, you can find more info on this in the wiki page on power kernel .
please note that increasing voltage above stock is NOT recommended at all , this can cause severe damage or even fry you processor on the spot (depending on how many voltage steps you add) !!

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Only heat will damage the CPU. Damaged hardware in the x86 world is mostly due to prolonged heat exposure like overclocking and inadequate cooling. If the N900 reach those temperatures of the x86 world, you won't be able to hold it, so the danger limits itself automatically for the N900. Theoretically overclocking will reduce the operational life of the CPU, but in real life it is irrelevant, more like 'using up' the life of SD cards by defragmenting them.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

There are for the virtual keyboard, but for the hardware keyboard you have to get down and dirty editing config files manually as described in the wiki.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

1. I'm not sure about Ubuntu and i don't think it'll work, it'll be laggy as ****. But yes, you can boot to Android while keeping Maemo as well, i.e allow dual booting. As for Meego, it's not even out yet and the current builds we have so far don't allow dual booting. The current builds we have are crap and unstable so no point going there anyway, not yet at least.

2. Again, the builds we have right now still have bugs, they're mainly for developers to test them out. Nokia has said that once the official Meego is released, they might allow N900 users to dual boot into that so we'll see.

4. As with overclocking/underclocking with ANY device, of course there's a risk to it. But on a phone, it's usually harmless and u can almost ignore that. I'm fairly sure about 80% of N900 owners on this forum have already overclocked. I have overclocked myself on 2 N900s and they worked fine for months, so u don't even have to worry about this.

5. How about doing some searching?? There're too many posts out there, ur lucky ppl didn't start to come in ur topic to flame or troll against u coz that's precisely what most ppl do on Maemo.org. I've had past experiences where i asked questions that are more technical to a more specific problem, and even that got trolls flaming on my topic.



Personally, I would go with a different device. N900 has a piss poor battery life, and i've tried out tons of mods and tweaks to increase its battery life, even sacrificing performance, but it's still crap. It's a good phone, but battery life is one of the majority issues that users have had with it. Also, it's been out for almost a year now, the development for this phone is poor, there aren't anything worth mentioning about it. Personally, i bought the device just coz it looks sexy and that it's one the few good looking devices with a hardware keyboard. But i'm soon changing to a HTC PRO 7 or HTC Desire Z, so i would suggest you look for those devices instead of the N900.


Windows Phone 7 or Android is at least more promising, and I doubt Meego will do well, one can only hope for it to. That's just my opinion anyway.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

I'll throw in my 2 cents just on the battery life. Mine lasts a day standing at 750MHz OCed. I don't think that's too bad considering most new big and bright smartphones last about the same. Just get autodisconnect and decrease the brightness when you're not using it. I find the tradeoff in slightly worse battery life (than a normal phone) is more than made up for in what it can do and the potential it has (which is a lot, unfortunately.)

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

One quick note about overclocking:

Your phone does not run at max speed all the time. It will spend most of its time in a sleeping state at minimum speed (or in some states, partially off) and only jumps to maximum when loaded.

Also, overclocking will cause a slow increase in errors (not sudden failure) over time due to electron migration. While this may take a while to happen, it'll mostly reveal itself in strange, unreproducible errors. Others who have since reduced their posting due to the poor atmosphere could explain it better than I, but them's the breaks.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Maybe the thousands of posts here giving experience about overclocking have some value.

I happen to know that voting Republican damages your brain. It's invisible at first, but happens in twenty years. People who are Republicans who don't agree are in denial.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

There is theory, then there is empirical evidence. Both are equally substantial, in my opinion. However, I personally don't think that two such subjects should be used to argue against each others case, rather they should be used to benefit one another.

Even so, I don't know much about phone hardware. My experience of hardware comes from old school computers (pentium 1, 2 and 3 era, k6-2, etc) and I know that the majority of that stuff is very different than current phone hardware, at least in terms of overclocking.

However, all I can say is that in my experience, running my N900 @ 805mhz (no voltage changes) has been rock solid stable. That being said, I have enjoyed the use of my device substantially more than when it was at the stock 600mhz clock rate.

It's not a huge difference, but it is very noticeable. I feel that this way I am not as tempted to buy another device just because it is faster - as mine isn't so slow anymore. I will keep this up until the upcoming devices are phenomenal, justifying my need to move on to something better. That being said, I personally feel that overclocking my own device is in fact an investment - it's preventing me from getting bored and wasting my money on the next coolest phone prematurely, as there will inevitably be something even cooler than that just over the horizon.

In the end, we all know that the OMAP 3430 is designed to be scalable at up to 1ghz. Although there are more factors than the cpu alone that contribute in the cpu's clock rate, at least we know that keeping below 1ghz isn't really pushing the envelope that much. This is probably the biggest reason why we, on this forum, haven't read many (if any, i haven't at least) horror stories of overclocking too much where their device turns into a brick.

Either way, to answer the OP's question (and I hope we all can agree on this) - YES, the N900 is overclockable - even relatively safer than overclocking your E90. However, that is not to say that there is no risk, it's just very very minimal.

PS - Feel free to send your E90 to me. I've always wanted that phone, but I went for a US spec N95-8gb instead because I wanted 3g in the states. The E90 was WAY cooler than my dumpy N95 that kept falling apart. Hah.

Good luck and I hope this helps! I've loved my N900, however I do miss some of the phone functionality with Symbian S60 (even though the N900 is still good enough), and I am very bummed out that we didn't get Flash 10.1 and we most likely never will. Boo. However, the Maemo5 OS is fantastic for what I like to use my N900 for - basically being almost a mini laptop. Hah.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

I see it work acceptable here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMwlchuqsXo
I don't think it will be worse than my e90 battery life, wich i charge every night until morning(7-8am) and after browsing some web, listen to music, play some games (that is about 2pm) the battery is at the last line - so i charge the phone about twice per day. And so i am kind of used to have a crap battery, but if n900 could resist from 8am to 10pm without a charge it is perfect.
I am not interested in how the device looks, i am interested in what it can do as long as it fit in my poket(no offence but i think sexy looking phones are for girls) :D
Windows phone 7 is a joke - a big mistake from microsoft- instead of improving and innovating windows mobile, they start all over from scratch and with the left foot, i mean come on this os doesen't stand a chance even in front of my old s60v3 os 9.2 e90 look at the limitations:

Windows Phone 7 OS LIMITATIONS:
No system-wide file manager
No videocalling
Limited third-party apps availability
No Bluetooth file transfers
No USB mass storage mode
No multitasking
No copy/paste
Too dependent on Zune software for computer file management and syncing
No music player equalisers
No Flash or Silverlight support in the web browser
No sign of free Bing maps Navigation so far
No DivX/XviD video support
No internet tethering support
New ringtones available only through the Marketplace
Swapping memory card requires hard reset; cards not readable by computer

Microsoft may fix this with time if they will survive in the mobile os market or everything will go the way microsoft kin phones did-to certain death.

Android does look like a promising platform but no phone with android have the opening that n900 have and with android been able to install on the n what else could you want?

If you send me your n900 i would gladly send you my e90 :D

About overclocking i read somwhere that the worse thing that may happen is the mass memory that could become corrupted and no camera or messanging acces becase of that

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Just a note on that, your E90 probably has a duff battery if that's the kind of life you get out of it - Mine lasted (and still does) 4-7 days per charge depending on usage, with wifi and bluetooth enabled constantly.


I think you're a little mis-informed with this list (the misinformed list that was first published a while ago on gsmarena and has been incorrectly copy/pasted loads of places since), as quite a few of these arent correct.
Also, further worth noting, most of the limitations above that *are* correct (and some of the ones that arent) also apply to Maemo and the N900, which also lacks, out of the box:

system-wide file manager
Video calling
USB mass storage
equalisers
current flash
silverlight
wifi tethering

The difference is though, Maemo will never see any of these issues fixed. Microsoft have already announced their intentions to fix most of the current limitations of WP7 within the next few months at the most.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Which is generally for the best, since your average user has no business nosing around in /etc or /lib. In fact, I'd say this is wrong since you do have the Bash shell. It's not a GUI, but if you need a GUI to browse the greater filesystem you probably shouldn't be messing with it.

Which is a fast dying feature in the face of things like Skype.

What do you mean by this? I think the person you were replying to meant that WP7 devices can't be used like a disk when plugged into the PC, and I suspect you mean host mode.

Could totally be added.

Could happen. Probably won't until MeeGo comes out.

I don't see why this doesn't already exist.

Nonsense. Probably not by Nokia, but still nonsense.

Indeed, and you are forced to wait for them to catch up. But then the greater problem of WP7 being as restrictive as iOS (if not moreso) comes into view, and it just ensures that you can't really do what you want.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

I'm not fully sure what point you're making - Whether the lack of a feature is "for the best" or "a fast dying feature" or "could totally be added" the fact remains those features arent there.
I was simply pointing out that ryu1 essentially rubbished WP7 on the basis of a not entirely accurate list of limitations it has, when half of those limitations, for various reasons, also exist out of the box on Maemo on the N900, a device he's considering buying - When he's using that list as a reason to not buy a WP7 device, it's clearly pertinent to point out the limitations which also apply to Maemo.

Yes, some of the functionality can be added through additional software, just like it can on WP7. Yes, some of it can also be fixed through updates, however barring the community SSU it's highly unlikely Maemo will ever get any more, whereas MS have committed to improve WP7's functionality pretty promptly.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

This is elitist nonsense, something that many people here believe in, unfortunately. I remember how happy I was when I got Xtree, many years ago. It gave access to all files on my DOS computer. It didn't hurt me.

Even those loathsome "average users" like to learn about their computers. Sure, they are complete slime, but knowing the truth and being able to deal with it doesn't hurt.

And it's equally nonsense to criticize the N900 for not having a system wide file manager. That's because you can download maybe half a dozen of them in just a few minutes. Judging a system on the basis of how it comes to you is a lazy journalistic trick giving rise to a nonsensical evaluation. Everyone adds things to everything, and the ultimate way of judging systems is how they work in the real world.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

My point is that they're largely not of concern, won't happen, or are just confused terminology. I think OP's reaction is mostly due to the rush job that the current iteration of WP7 is.

If and only if you pay MS $100 per app (ok, $20 for free apps with a limit of 5) to get it listed in their store, on top of being restricted to what is possible via .NET.

I think the better point is that Microsoft's policies towards WP7 are far too oppressive for what the OP wants in a device, and with MeeGo coming up the N900 is the only platform open enough to do what he wants.

Well, IIRC you can install Midnight Commander if you really want it. Or even build and make xtree available for users of the N900. But really, a learning curve is called for and thinking that people should try and learn something before wandering into the innards of a system is hardly "elitist."

Don't shove words in my mouth. Lack of a GUI doesn't prevent learning, it simply raises the bar a bit since if you want one, you need to find and install one. You want a system controlled by elitism, go look at iOS.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

No the highest voltage used by Titans kernel is that of the default Nokia kernel at 600mhz, even at 1150.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

For what it's worth, Microsoft did dramatically lower this a fair while ago - Marketplace registration is now $99 per year, which lets you submit as many paid apps as you like and upto 5 free apps at no cost, with $20 being charged for every free app after the first 5.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

I suppose they realized that abusing developers worse than Apple wasn't a good proposition considering their position in the market ;)

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

As someone from another forum said: You came to my restaurant and order a pizza, after 30 minutes i came with a half of pizza and tell you that i will bring you the oder half next week but ask for money now.
And yes i am angry on microsoft for abandoning windows mobile instead of improving it and fix its bugs.

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Do you use gps,play games for hours? :D

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

I would buy a windows phone 7 device only if i could boot another os on it (meego,ubuntu,android,even symbian) :p

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

another questions:
Is there any software to open autocad (.dxf files) on the n900?
Is there any ocr(scan text with camera) for n900?

Re: some questions from a potential buyer: multi-boot, MeeGo, USB host, overclocking
 

Really? I was looking at the settings in overclocking profiles installed in /usr/share/kernel-power-settings/, the default profile has the voltage set at 60 for 600MHz up to 1000MHz, and 72 for for 1100MHz and 1150MHz.

So what are you telling me, that the default voltage for 600Mhz with Nokia's kernel is 72 and installing the kernel-power-settings package changes to 60, or that despite what is in the profiles Titan's kernel won't let the voltage go over 60?