The other side...
 

Hi all,

Despite the risk to become the ‘devil in disguise’, I would like to let hear another sound about Nokia’s decision of killing Maemo and Meego. I am a so called ‘tech savvy’ user and have interest in Linux and other operating systems. So in the beginning I was quite happy to get a Nokia N900 offered for free from my provider. After all, looking at the specs it seemed quite promising! After some time though I got more and more the feeling I was missing out on something. Software, to be exactly. O yes, there is a lot of open source stuff available for Maemo but to be very honest: most of it falls in the category ‘geek ware’. It took a long time before I was even able to open a PowerPoint presentation, a quite common file format in everyday business life. A good graphics viewer isn’t there also. There are some options, but most of them are extremely slow and are not even close to what is available on other platforms. Most N900 software keeps living in the pre-beta phase, version 0.0x and so on.

Yes, the ‘motor’ (community) behind it all could have made it something really wonderful. But –as happens often with open source projects- many programs are abandoned after some time. Or are forked in 10 different varieties. Maybe interesting if you want to have the in open source so cherished freedom, but for the average end user it only creates chaos. The N900 has a huge potential of hardware possibilities, but only a fraction of it was ever used. Most open source programmers are either not paid for their work or do a N900 program as a pet project in some lost working hours. That means deadlines are non-existing and also design goals are not clearly defined. This was also visible in the ‘updates’ of the N900 firmware. The phone had and still has many flaws and strange behaviours. Yes, I got used to them but you can’t sell it to the masses. And from whatever viewpoint you look at it: somehow a company has to make profit to keep the business running.

In my opinion, the move to Phone 7 does not have to end fatally. Yes, Nokia will lose some hardcore fans, but let’s face it: what is the size of this group in comparison with ‘Average Joe’? Maemo, Meego. Who has ever heard of it besides a small group of technical enthousiasts? I work in the field of journalism, some IT magazines and others. Even in this environment, both Maemo and Meego are not widely known and not well known for sure.

In short –and this is my opinion even despite the fact that I DID like Maemo!- pure open source is not the way that leads to success when talking about mobile phones and even tablets. Customers want a good backup of applications that make them easily do their work and their hobbies. Maybe you puke on apps like Google Earth, Facebook, Mobile Office, photo editors and games but for most people they are essential for the ‘experience’ of a phone/tablet. In that respect, even Android has its problems thanks to Google’s decision to not include Market in every device. The results are already visible in reviews, forums and so on. People simply don’t like to have no access to a large base of software.

And no, I don’t work for Nokia, I have nothing against Linux or whatever. But I do see the advantages of an iPhone/iPad, Phone 7, Symbian or whatever other commercial OS. And those are –partly unfortunately- the advantages that sell the best to paying consumers. Had to write down this to let hear ‘another’ sound. Not to bash or irritate, just to be realistic.


Regards,

Ronald.

Re: The other side...
 

Well, for us Nokia internet tablet devotees, let's assume you are right. Now that Nokia has essentially beat us with sticks to get rid of us, once we abandon our tablets, Nokia is just another company, right? I don't see any reason to prefer Nokia.

In fact, let's face it. I have a grudge against Nokia. There are lots of mere phones out there.

Re: The other side...
 

Ron, I don't want to be rude, but... why should I care?

It's all nice and well that you feel so much compassion for the needs of 'joe average'. i don't. joe's needs are being taken care of everywhere. he's in the center of attention. iphone is for him. android is for him. wp7 is for him. certainly we needn't be afraid that one day, companies will stop selling the crap joe average wants.

but why should i care? it's me who wants to spend my money on things i want.

Re: The other side...
 

The problem with the N900/maemo is that right when it was being released it was announced to be replaced with meego then the QT platform came into play but not for maemo this fractured development as developers waited for a stable commitment and a solid hardware roadmap release schedule before investing in it. Hard to hit a shifting target without knowing where it is heading and who wants to waste their time effort and money without a concrete platform, which is what the whole QT symbian and meego was billed to be as of September/October developers since had been waiting for the hardware roadmap and production devices to materialize... Which nokia basically craped on them yet again on Friday.

Re: The other side...
 

its the problem, that when my N900 dies, nothing will replace it...

Re: The other side...
 

You are absolutely right Ronald. But the thing is, smartphones used to be geek toys. Joe average had only dumb phones. Then came iPhone and Android and changed all this. Smartphones were suddenly the new dumb phone and Nokia just stood there. Instead of developing Maemo to be the new sleek "dumb phone" OS for Joe average, they lost direction with open source initiatives and lost it all.

So now they have nothing left. No sleek "dumb phone" OS, no cool open source initiatives, even Symbian is dying.

So, while most people here see Joe average as a nuisance that gets it all, they fail to see that it is Joe average that pay for it all as well. They fail to see that open source is a luxury paid for by Joe average, and if he doesn't get what he wants, there will be nothing of anything.

Re: The other side...
 

Don't blame "open source" for Nokia's failure to execute.

And yet the industry caters almost exclusively to Joe Average and makes an extended effort to keep those of us who like to squeeze capability out of our hardware trapped with Joe Average (see jailbreaking/rooting/signed kernels/etc.)

It is entirely possible to be open source, cater to Joe Average, and give the power users what they want. No one does that, they actively fight it, and Nokia's management dropped the ball.

Re: The other side...
 

not another new post on this nokia decision , this is so so boring now !!

come on guys stick to post already made .

Re: The other side...
 

Couldn't have put it better myself Ron, i think you've hit the nail on the head.

Re: The other side...
 

Hi all...

Actually Ericsson (perfect name in this case...) writes it exactly as it is. Things that were ones hightech tools for specialists aren't anymore. It sometimes frustrates me also. But let's face it: once the car was a hightech tool. Now it's for every 'dumbass' (not meant in a bad way), everyone can drive without knowing anything about the technics under the hood. With computers exactly the same. I grew up in the homecomputer times. Programming myself, thinkering with hardware. But those days are gone. Computers are mainstream and that means they need to be accesible for everyone. Keep it simple and so on. Is that bad? Maybe for the diehard: yes. But for the rest of humanity: I don't think so.

I do agree that it gets more and more difficult for developers who want freedom to have something that is more open. At the other hand: for Android -just to mention something- it is pretty well possible to design open source. And even if you want to write freeware for Windows Phone 7 there is no problem. Heck, you can even make your software open source, no one forbids that. I know that adapting to 'the rest' is sometimes very difficult. Of course it would have been great if Maemo or Meego would have become this Great Freedom of Mobility. But which manufacturer is going to invest in free rides? It's just not how economy works.

And I am 100% sure there is plenty enough space for visionairs, dreamers, thinkerers and hobbyist. Just adapt a little bit to the masses, but keep going your own way. Put the knowledge and spirit you gained here at maemo.org in developing for other platforms. Platforms that ARE economically healthy, that do have a future. Start a mobile.org site and develop open source for all those available platforms. Maybe there are restrictions, maybe it will sometimes give you a bad taste. But somehow the Big Names give some kind of certainty, continuity. So bring the spirit and enthousiasm of Open Source to 'Average Joe'. Just have fun with what is possible and don't be sad about what's a shadow of the past.

I also am a bit sad that I have to live with a phone that essentially will not get updates anymore. And I will try to get something else, because working with a now quickly aging phone is not the best option for as well professional life as private life. I am not dependant on Nokia in choosing a new phone, no one is. Personally, I do not believe in the huge succes of Phone 7. But then again, if 'Average Joe' chooses it and does grow big: who am I to refuse it? Mass acceptance means good support in all aspects. That is worth something also. That is not stupidity, not surrendering. Just adapting and making the best of it. Life goes on.


Regards,

Ronald.

Re: The other side...
 

There's a wild difference between "dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator" and offering tiers of capability to the end user from the same platform.

The mobile industry is choosing the first and using various forms of encryption and DRM to enforce it.

I do like GeneralAntilles' way of putting it (paraphrased): "Android is an open source black hole."

Sure, but both iOS and WP7 totally negate the value of making anything for them open source.

Which is neither here nor there.

In the current mobile space, Open Source is the enemy. It defies control by corporate entities and gives devices too long a lifespan. It threatens DRM and makes carriers unhappy.

And who are you to simply accept what is generally just shoved upon the masses? To just accept the way things go per corporate edict vs. actually trying to steer things the way you want?

There is no "adapting" to platforms like WP7 or iOS. Going those ways means that, for many of us who want open, unrestricted platforms, you must give up everything you want and compromise your ideals completely. There is no "open source" on those devices without breaking the EULA and ToS. Open is the enemy on those platforms.

Re: The other side...
 

Ok, one quick and last reply here (it's bed time in my time zone...): I agree with all of your point also. That is the sad side of it all: it's not black and white. However, I think sooner or later those commercial multinationals also someday will ease the restrictions. Problem is -as you wrote already- open source and closed platforms see eachother as the enemy. Harsh words are said every time again, on conferences, meetings and in the news from both sides. I think this is short minded, from either side. The truth lies -as always- somewhere in the middle.

What I said before: start some new platform in the spirit of maemo.org. But try to make it mixed from the beginning on. Have representatives from all closed source platforms in it also. Talk about eachothers visions, ideas, wishes. And I am quite sure the differences are not even so big. It's mainly being afraid of the Big Unknown of eachother. Keep in mind that all the big companies are also filled with people who are somehow also enthusiast about what they're doing.

Finally open up, start talking with eachother. I am quite sure 'something wonderful will happen'. Now I go sleep and dream about a good phone with a lot of available software :-)


Regards,

Ronald.

Re: The other side...
 

Just buy a dozen today!

Re: The other side...
 

@RonNL: you have confused "open" with "free-ride", also mistaken that 'average joe' would not benefit from an 'open' system. I would not be surprised that more than 50% of the people in the so-call 'average joe' group would not even blink an eye, if they were told that they would get more functions by 'jailbreak', 'rooting', or apply whatever method/procedure it is necessary to their device.

by the way, for viewing powerpoint stuff, shouldn't document-to-go be a good choice, even though it costs some money? please keep in mind that you HAVE to pay for such app on other platform anyway - so what is the real problem(ie. both N900 and other offers you solutions to your issue, with N900 you actually have choice of picking open-sourced app)

cheers,

Re: The other side...
 

Because people like you (and me) didn't help Nokia's bottom line. If people like you (and me) did amount up to a big enough market, Nokia would have pushed Maemo, finished MeeGo and everything would have been ok months, if not years ago.

It's irresponsible to begin to believe that this community, no matter how vocal and prolific in solving Nokia's problems are honestly a factor in anything that happened in the last few months. If so, explain MeeGo being announced a few months after the N900 was released. Explain how MeeGo hasn't made it out yet. Explain this move to WP7 by Nokia.

You can't. You can speculate, you can fume, you can be all upset as you want to be.

But the average joe just got shafted like this community did.

And now, the average joe has many other places to find their jollies meanwhile we have none (at the moment).

That's how much you (and me) counted. Not at all.

And I already ****ing know you have me on your ignore list. Don't care about that either.

Re: The other side...
 

Of course it is entirely possible (as a theory), but first you have to create the phone for many Joe Averages to buy so that it is financially sustainable to continue developing and putting resources in the OS for geeky end users to try and push the boundaries around it.

Understand this - first comes Joe Average (whether we like it or not). They have to pay and buy phones otherwise it wont get done.

I have been seeing this same trend with Linux on PDA's, tablets or phones. Niche products with Linux on it simply die fast unless they is a strong market.

I used the Zaurus (Linux PDA's) and sadly it was the same story. A bunch of geeks and nerds buying a few millions (at best) devices can't sustain the financial viability in corporate companies. Look at it from the company's view - they have to justify the money being spent in returns earned.

Re: The other side...
 

I think this week is just a wakeup call to everyone here who thought Nokia cared about them and that the internet tablet line was made for them.

That was all ********. Nokia wants the mainstream crowd, and the internet tablets were ventures to get into them.

Oh sure, Nokia has blown the open source horn for a while, but that was always just a way to get some free software and shoehorn some development off Nokia's clearly incapable hands for a time when they felt ready to launch Maemo. Clearly that launch never happened and now never will happen. They've fallen too far behind and it is, and always has been, their own damn fault for not phasing Symbian out a LONG time ago and putting all those resources into Maemo/Meego variants.

I'm a lover of my WP7 and I use Windows 7 on my desktop, but I still love using linux Mint and I loved my n900 and I was looking forward to a cross-platform Qt future. I'm very upset about the future of Qt.

As for the rest of it, I guess I was never under any illusions.

Nokia doesn't, and never has, cared about some open source handset dream. Quite frankly I'm a little surprised that open source people keep relying on established corporations with proprietary histories to build their dream handsets for them. Get behind the open hardware initiatives, because thats the only place your dream is going to happen.

Its hard, I know, realizing finally that Nokia doesn't love you. Breakups are hard. You just have to realize the special relationship you though you had, actually never was.

I'm with the OP. I think an open source phone with all the abilities of desktop linux would be awesome. I'm not going to wait around for it though at the expense of enjoyment of the, quite frankly, amazing things other companies like Microsoft and Google are making.