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-   -   Nokia and open source – a trial by fire (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70354)

Nyrath 2011-02-25 20:44
Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
http://www.h-online.com/open/feature...e-1194928.html

An analysis of what went wrong at Nokia with Maemo, MeeGo, and Qt.

poleepkwa 2011-02-25 21:22
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Interesting article and showing just how do deeply screwed Nokia is.
This explains a lot of the actions that Elop is taking and why. I dont agree with the view of going after android in the closure. Android is so locked into its own services that Windows was the better option.

timwatt 2011-02-25 23:55
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quoting from Slashdot " and I hope the people who truly screwed up the amazing Linux opportunity that was the N900 get shut down in the process."

I cant believe something so well thought out at the start, an Idea so perfect for out time could be guided into obsolescence.

ericsson 2011-02-26 00:38
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyrath (Post 955506)
http://www.h-online.com/open/feature...e-1194928.html

An analysis of what went wrong at Nokia with Maemo, MeeGo, and Qt.
That article is so full of nonsense, I don't know where to start.

Crashdamage 2011-02-26 00:39
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 955598)
That article is so full of nonsense, I don't know where to start.
Go ahead, give it a try.

ericsson 2011-02-26 01:02
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashdamage (Post 955601)
Go ahead, give it a try.
The rapidity with which similar Linux-based systems such as Android and WebOS have been brought to market by competing vendors tells its own story.

Just a pile of crap. Lets make up history so it suits my arguments - kind of crap.

Daneel 2011-02-26 02:03
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Its good that someone can have an objective opinion and smell the grass when trapped in a jungle of fanboyism, FUD and marketing.

Great article.

Crashdamage 2011-02-26 02:48
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 955607)
Just a pile of crap. Lets make up history so it suits my arguments - kind of crap.
If you know it to be 'a pile of crap' then please give us the real s**t. Maybe you've been in touch with Eldar?

There has to be some good reason Nokia's plans failed to launch. I thought he made reasonable points.

rm42 2011-02-26 04:39
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashdamage (Post 955632)
There has to be some good reason Nokia's plans failed to launch. I thought he made reasonable points.
Here is my take on it:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=260

And here is how financial analysts are processing the situation:
http://www.investmentu.com/2011/Febr...oks-bleak.html

Words to the wise:
Quote:
In addition, Nokia’s stock still isn’t cheap. Based on 2011 earnings estimates from Credit Suisse and others, it trades at 18 times earnings.

In comparison, Research in Motion – which also has a doubtful future – trades at nearly half that valuation. This indicates Nokia shares will trade even lower in the months ahead.

gerbick 2011-02-26 05:11
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timwatt (Post 955586)
I cant believe something so well thought out at the start, an Idea so perfect for out time could be guided into obsolescence.
The plans surrounding Maemo were poorly executed and under-promoted. So it was destined to become what it has today because of those things.

anders_gud 2011-02-26 06:14
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Don't forget one of the main reasons:
Unlike the iphone we never got working GL drivers from f***ing PowerVR/imgtec and thus were unable to make a competitive UI for the N800/N810 series tablets - hell it's still in bad shape on N900 with tearing and stuff...

ericsson 2011-02-26 07:29
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashdamage (Post 955632)
If you know it to be 'a pile of crap' then please give us the real s**t. Maybe you've been in touch with Eldar?

There has to be some good reason Nokia's plans failed to launch. I thought he made reasonable points.
The main problem with that article is that it is not honest. It is only whining and made up historical nonsense. For instance WebOS, Palm used several years to come up with it, and when they finally launched it, nobody wanted it. Palm was sold to HP, and they have yet to sell a single phone.

The problem with Maemo/MeeGo is that it is ultimately a very bad concept altogether for Nokias future OS. The future consists of closed OSes, streamlined stuff, modern stuff that has one main purpose: make it easy for people to connect/use the ecosystem. Apple has walked up the path. WP will provide this, MeeGo will not. What this mean is that very few people at Nokia believed in the future of MeeGo-Qt-Symbian, they wanted something else, something real, something similar to what Symbian used to be. The MeeGo-Qt-Symbian route didn't catch any enthusiasm, because the concept is ultimately flawed.

When you analyse, be honest, or stfu and stop whining.


This is real:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu..._smartphon.php

onethreealpha 2011-02-26 08:05
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
interesting article....

".....seen a broadly positive reaction from the industry"

comment made without actually citing people or industry figures.

add that to the lots of "In my view", "I believe" , "In my opinion" statements and what you have is merely an editorial from one person with their particular perspective and no different than the opinions here that you're calling cr*p....

troll

Stskeeps 2011-02-26 08:24
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
There's so many things in that article that are direct errors or just general misinformation without even covering background/listing opposite points. As well as relying on one source for a large bunch of quotes where it ends up being a slamfest. And don't even get me started on the obvious bias. What happened to objective 'journalism'?

There are -some- points that are probably correct, but it has been mangled horribly and lost in a really bad article :/

How can anyone be 'forced to stop developing' when other people don't put the development in? What would be typical closed source behaviour is if the git trees were shut down, no patches accepted.. instead it stayed open, so did the requirements process, if anyone wanted to invest time, so they could.

Let me tell you how: because he was essentially packaging the efforts, not actually developing netbook improvements.

Sigh. Back to work (yes, we're actually still working on MeeGo.com for ARM and the N900 hardware adaptation)

abill_uk 2011-02-26 08:41
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
If Nokia had truly made the N900 FULLY open source then for sure Maemo would have been successful.

No programmer can get past closed source anything and the real reason Maemo flunked out of exsistance for Nokia.

Had Nokia put more trust in the community of would be programmers for Maemo by letting everything be open by negotiation with their own team that built the device we would be looking at a completely different success story for Maemo.

Meego will suffer the same losses simply because companies are too damm greedy and want to capitolize their own investments instead of looking broadly into the future.

abill_uk 2011-02-26 08:43
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
If the day ever comes that Nokia or a company like them manufacture a 100% open device only then will it be a success.

slender 2011-02-26 08:49
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
I read it and some interesting points but for love of god what is this smeegol guy doing in every single piece of blog lately?

abill_uk 2011-02-26 09:12
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
One thing that is very clear in all of that ... 2 giants together must succeed simply because of the amount of money they have and joint teamwork , resources etc.

Albeit now everyone doubts this move mainly because of personal feeling getting in the way of good judgement but one thing for sure it WILL be a successful partnership and the Windows everything will win the day.

abill_uk 2011-02-26 09:13
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Maemo will now always be a sideline for geeks and will never move forward from what it is now.

ysss 2011-02-26 09:29
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Abill: you sound a bit scattered today. Not quite together, if you know what I mean.

Is everything okay?

luca 2011-02-26 09:43
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 955734)
There's so many things in that article that are direct errors or just general misinformation without even covering background/listing opposite points. As well as relying on one source for a large bunch of quotes where it ends up being a slamfest. And don't even get me started on the obvious bias. What happened to objective 'journalism'?

There are -some- points that are probably correct, but it has been mangled horribly and lost in a really bad article :/
It seems to me that it describes the situation almost perfectly: instead of incremental evolution, Nokia decided to rewrite (almost) everything on each iteration.
They could own the complete tablet market now, and have a sizable portion of the smartphone market, if they just fulfilled the promise of maemo.
They decided instead to mount an incredible army of Brancaleone (with all due respect with everyone involved, except management) to fight a losing war (due to the constant change of focus and direction).

Stskeeps 2011-02-26 09:53
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luca (Post 955767)
It seems to me that it describes the situation almost perfectly: instead of incremental evolution, Nokia decided to rewrite (almost) everything on each iteration.
Yes, but that is like 1% of the article and mostly the Maemo story, not so much MeeGo.com :)

luca 2011-02-26 14:30
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 955776)
Yes, but that is like 1% of the article and mostly the Maemo story, not so much MeeGo.com :)
Oh, yes, we all know that, after a million u-turns, nokia stuck with meego until the end....:p

Daneel 2011-02-26 14:56
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysss (Post 955763)
Abill: you sound a bit scattered today. Not quite together, if you know what I mean.

Is everything okay?
He seems quite normal to me ;)

abill_uk 2011-02-26 15:23
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Oh i am normal haha its the reast that aint, they all think the world revolves around Nokia.

Crashdamage 2011-02-26 15:50
Re: Nokia and open source – a trial by fire
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 955711)
The main problem with that article is that it is not honest.
It may or may not be accurate, but how is it dishonest?

Quote:
For instance WebOS, Palm used several years to come up with it, and when they finally launched it, nobody wanted it.
Well, WebOS itself was liked by nearly everyone. Lotsa people wanted it. It was a combination of lousy hardware, knowledge that Palm was in very shaky financial condition and a launch initially only on friggin' Sprint that held people back from putting their money into a new Palm device. It did me for sure.

Quote:
Palm was sold to HP, and they have yet to sell a single phone.
Soon...soon. At least WebOS was good enough someone was still willing to buy it and invest more into it.

Quote:
The problem with Maemo/MeeGo is that it is ultimately a very bad concept altogether for Nokias future OS.
Maemo/MeeGo/Symbian/Qt was an excellent concept. It's slow execution and M$ billions that changed Nokia's commitment to it.

Quote:
The future consists of closed OSes, streamlined stuff, modern stuff that has one main purpose: make it easy for people to connect/use the ecosystem. Apple has walked up the path. WP will provide this, MeeGo will not.
Closed system - absolutely WP7 will deliver. M$ clearly made closed the highest priority for WP7. The rest is not yet there.

And why would a system have to be closed to deliver "...streamlined stuff, modern stuff that has one main purpose: make it easy for people to connect/use the ecosystem"? Modern desktop LInux distros certainly fit that description. Android and WebOS, though not fully open, do too.

Quote:
What this mean is that very few people at Nokia believed in the future of MeeGo-Qt-Symbian
It just means that progress was slower than hoped and Nokia felt a stronger commitment to M$ billions than their own plans.

It's easy to poke large holes in several of the points raised there. But I have neither time nor inclination to do that here.


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