Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

I know everyone here loves the openness of their phone and they hate the idea of an M$ mobile; however, the Nokia, M$ partnership is basic game theory. The object of the game is to create the most popular mobile devices. Popularity is measured in sales. Thus, two of the weaker players decide that they need to join forces to survive in order to have a chance against the leaders of the game, Google/(their handset makers) and Apple. Hopefully, the two biggest players fight it out and while they are competing, the smaller guys can become competitive. You can't fault Nokia for this strategy at all.

Now some of you Android lovers will make the case that Google is willing to partner with Nokia. That is very true. So why doesn't a little guy partner with Google and join the lead. The problem with that is you have changed your game a bit and now you are partners and enemies with all of the other Android players, so you are only going to get a piece of the Android pie. If you become the dominant Android handset, you help yourself and hurt yourself at the same time, because one of the basic ideas behind Android is that the consumer has choice. If your competing partners become irrelevant Android has a chance to become irrelevant.

It should be obvious to see that if Nokia joins Android, the game gets tricky. However, with the M$ partnership if success comes there is no worry about balancing your success. Both M$ and Nokia may remain egotistical; whereas with Google, Nokia has to be more of a team player.

In the end, it seems like it comes down to this. Apple controls the software and hardware for their products. RIM is like Apple; however, they are dying. If those companies remain competitive, they will make the most money of any player in this game. Google wants to control the core software and provide interoperability which is good for the consumer, but they are reaping almost all of the software benefits. The Google handset makers are fighting for a piece of the Android handset maker pie. If Android practically becomes the only mobile OS option, that isn't a bad deal at all. Finally, you have the M$ and Nokia partnership that is perfect, because when one benefits the other benefits. As long as Nokia is pretty much the only M$ partner that isn't a bad deal and it becomes a lower variance

Give Nokia a break; their CEO made a strong play in this game. Honestly, it would take a lot of luck, a ramp up in resources, and hard work in order for Maemo/Meego to have a chance. Apple and/or Android would have to seriously mess up. There could be quite a bit of reward, but there is also a lot of variance.

I believe that we will be lucky to see the N950. After that we will be extremely lucky to see another phone as open as the N900. We can only hope that Nokia keeps serving our niche market. Nobody likes a whiner, so stop bashing them and start asking nicely and maybe we will get what we want.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

Good luck on defending Nokia mate.
Never defending a company that left you out in the cold :)

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

Was this "trip" really necessary!?:rolleyes:

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

Good point and well written! I have to say I agree with you!

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

you lost me with the "little guy" reference....
on sheer number of handsets sold. nokia is still on top.
the ms alliance is nothing more than redmond buying it's way into the mobile market share. E-FLOP openly admitted that the deal would reap them billions of dollars in cash payments over the mext 5 years.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

So you reckon Microsoft and Nokia are the 2 weakest huh, you must be out of your skull mate try looking at reality because they are probably the strongest not the weakest and as for defending them well if all we get is Windows mobile OS then i think they will be even hated more.

Nokia just dropped everyone in the shite after dropping Maemo AND MeeGo so how the hell can you defend such actions?.

As for BASHING them, i say bash them with everything you got because nothing good has happened so far apart from more letdowns.

Many just do not share your sentiments sorry to say.

PS this will probably turn into a hate thread !!!.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

In a same time Android could not have ever been able to offer special treatment to Nokia like Microsoft and the field is overcrowded. With the likes of Motorola with good products tanking at the moment. Only real winners being HTC, Samsung and chinese cheapo manufacturers, there's no room for others.


As a huge Harmattan and later MeeGo fan i'm not happy about the direction, but MeeGo was moving way too slowly and was missing real mass behind it.
It's mostly the old time hardcore Nokia fans that are left complaining and really, those are the last people Nokia needs to listen at this point imo.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

too right abill.
you forgot to mention the extra 7000 of their own employees that they just dropped in the shite as well old son.
i noticed the big talk up on the BBC news site gobbing off about the 3% rise in Nokia shares since the takeover..... err alliance. they didn't mentipn the near 15% drop that took place before.
yep. the right decision. the market and shareholders didn't think so.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

Your kidding right? Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about with this reference.

RIM is the LEADING business phone provider. I don't know ANY large corporations that dont give all their employees blackberries!

Dont mention things that you clearly don't know...

Go take a walk into the business district of your city, and you will see hundreds/thousands of people wearing suits checking their blackberries!

They are FAR from dying..

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

And i bet the reason Nokia have dropped 700 empoyee's is a Microsoft decision as now you will see Nokia being controled by the strongest link this world has at the moment MICROSOFT.

The comments made by anyone in favour of the OP need to go see a doctor in my opinion.

Thank god MeeGo has been taken up and pushed forward is all i can say.

The more i read on this thread the more my f.ing blood boils ... what a load of utter crap.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

But it was moving nevertheles faster than Nokia/Microsoft combo. Harmattan is coming soon. Real Nokia MeeGo devices were on the pipeline and expected this year. Nokia's WP7 phone might come this year.

And there is also no real mass behind WP7 either. There are phones available but they don't sell. Other phone manufacturers making those are OEM's that can't contribute to development of WP.

I am not a fan of any company. As a customer I like to have ability to choose and that is I find it sad that Symbian is killed and MeeGo's future is uncertain, I have less choice available. Windows phone I could buy already now. Why would I wait for Nokia WP?

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

Going WP7 for Nokia good for Microsoft.

Bad for Nokia, EU and me as an enduser who prefer openess.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

I imagine that from the point of view of game theory, giving the American Indians smallpox-infested blankets was brilliant, which is a great reason not to use game theory as a basis for how to make decisions. Fortunately, all I have to decide as a customer is who to trust and where my loyalty goes. I am no longer interested in Nokia.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

did he said that RIM is like Apple? and both are dying? hahahahha

Apple is here to stay whether you like it or not. Apple pretty much taken the whole world by storm. As for RIM they are far from dying also, RIM even released a Tablet that has Honeycomb inside it as well, RIM is here to stay for a long long time even their market share isn't great.

As for android, they will always be the the competitor to Apple from the beginning and future. Infact my next device will be Android whether everyone here scrolling me for it, face it, Samsung made great GS2 sexy, best hardware and overal design that Nokia cannot even get close. Nokia is the past i'm afraid even it has married to MS.

Samsung is the new Nokia :) well to me that is. Never again buy another Nokia :)

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

If only we could have the OS that the 5800 has, that would do me for sure.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

Bill, you really need to take some time out. If discussions about mobile phone companies and OS's lead you to this, then you're taking things waaaay to seriously.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

If the deal was so good it doesn't need defending.

Any sane strategy would include a backup plan. Nokia have burnt their existing platforms and have jumped off into shark infested waters. Real life is not a game - there is no reload button.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

You can't deny that this partnership will probably make nokia more money than if they followed their previous business plan. I won't knock a company for good business practices because I understand that companies are only in business to make money.

That's my argument anyway.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

only time will tell...if this is a good move or not.

damn, I am so wise.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

;)
:)

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

The only problem with this analysis is that MSFT is not exclusively partnering with Nokia (there are a slew of other WM7 devices coming out) and Nokia will not control the core software (as you state Google does for Android). Their best play was to develop their own ecosystem, which they abandoned. Anyway you slice it, I can't help but see this a terrible business decision for Nokia. HTC will eat their lunch as it offers every platform in every configuration.......I am curious to see how Nokia will differentiate itself now....I suppose it better have some excellent services.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

Nokia were failing through lack of commitment. I believe they had a killer O/S in Maemo, they just didn't have the vision or the motivation to take it further and improve on it.

Microsoft were in the same position with Windows Mobile. They lacked the vision, commitment and motivation to take it further.

Both parties were losing out to Google big-time. And it's no surpise because Google were literally giving Android away. It's obvious manufacturers were going to jump ship. It's been the view of almost every technology firm for the past decade or more that "If you can get one for nothing, why pay for the alternative?"
Microsoft saw a big money pit and jumped in, end of. Anything that Elop or Ballmer says to try to avert attention from that is bull. They knew where it was going.

You know, I've looked at Microsoft's roadmap on this and it spouts on about Microsoft Adcenter too many times to make me feel comfortable.

I simply can't imagine anyone who lives in a rural area where 3G/3.5G is none existant grinding their way through ads before they can get to the homepage to find more waiting in the wings.
I don't want that, it's my bandwidth, I pay £5pm for 1GB (way too much money IMO, given the state of the network) of course I'm going to want every drop of that 1GB for my own use, not for some plonker of a consultation company to tell the guy who's gawking over my shoulder on the bus that Robin Emblind Insurance is better than Bodget & Scarper.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

Elop had No loyalty to anyone or anything as a Outsider Coming in and I think he as made the best decisions for Nokia in the Long run.

People on here Won't agree b/c Microsoft is the enemy as they are Linux people
If you think MeeGo-Harmattan was DELAYED & First device scrapped b/c a dodgy hinge like blogs reported think again.
Operators all turned it down b/c they hated the UI and Nokia thinking it was there mass market product of the future at the time decided to rework the UI and gut it to a Iphony UI like standard in the meantime making original product Specs out dated so they skipped it for one without the KB.
Having to go back to the drawing board and delaying MeeGo/harmattan products while they rework anew UI must of swayed Elops decision and made blood boil amongst longer serving Nokians

Elop is King

Nokia and Microsft relationship is the real Royal Wedding and Should Be celebrated

disclaimer everything i say is true apart from KING and Wedding part

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

NvyUs, while i agree that the hinge story was a load of bollocks, suggesting the UI as a cause for such major delay smells a bit in my opinion.
as a rank amatuer, i read the meego wiki design/ui pages and then after copying the default/base theme folders to my desktop and using nothing more than inkscape, gimp and gedit, i'd pretty much replaced the existing theme in 4-5 hours.
one of the great features of Meego is how easy it is to customise the UI.
i find it hard to believe that Nokia wouldn't have had a dozen different options available for all the telcos to look at. furthermore i find it hard to believe that professional designers at nokia would need months to rejig the meego UI when a dumb grunt with a few spare hours and no previous theming experience can change it at home on a 4yr old pc running a linux beta os......
nokia and many of it's employees have suffered from being no 1 for too long. they got lazy and chose to rest on their laurels. it will be interesting to see now, how hard the symbian devs at nokia (IMO the real internal blockers to meego progress) will start working in a desperate last ditch effort to keep their baby going.
furthermore, with microsoft now pushing to develop their os for arm compatibility, it represents a classic multipronged approach to monopolising a market by buying out the biggest player and stopping them from further developing a competing os in the mobile arena

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

You are confusing the MeeGo Ui guidelines from meego.com with Nokia's own UI for Harmattan, Harmattan is not MeeGo however they try and spin it.
My story is 100% true from a reliable source way up the chain inside Nokia. I'm not going to say more b/c I was told in confidence from someone high ranking.

Theres many Nokians on here in the know
I ask them to deny that Harmattan/MeeGo UI was knocked back by Operators in 2010 (specifically US ) and so you gutted it
I guarantee not one will deny it and many was angered by decision.

btw i believe it would take designers ages to rework things inside nokia, It's only taking them longer than 3 years to design a UI for symbian touch after scrapping numerous attempts and the promised new UI is still not here until Q4 11

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

When companies find their industry has changed, and what has historically been their reliable income generator is now faltering, they have a tendency to focus their efforts and resources on strengthening that old product rather than risk embracing newer alternatives that may better suit the evolving market.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

mate i'll take your word for it.
there's certainly no way we'll ever hear the truth from the horse's mouth.
having said that, given all the talk that the n900's successor (n950@or whatever they end up calling it) is going to be a slate without h/ware keyboard, i'll probably end up not getting it anyway, especially, as you said, it's not REAL Meego.
having had a play with the E7 and it's awesome keyboard, i'd rather get that as my main phone and keep my N900 as my Meego device.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

Just an after thought what as just crossed my mind, it all now makes sense why they roped in and poached webOS design VP Peter Skillman when they did towards end of last year

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

in this case, I think it was a GOOD plan for MS, Nokia got the shortend of the stick so-to- speak:)

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

calm down dears, its only a telecommunications device manufacturer.

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

So, let me get this straight: We should set up a community fund to hire a bunch of skinny, fat bosomed sex workers, with the Maemo infinity logo drawn around the aforementioned bosoms, send over to Nokia HQ, and maybe that'll get us a fully open Maemo as well as MeeGo?

:rolleyes:

Re: Defending the Nokia M$ partnership.
 

Maybe you should add everybody on this post in CC. ;)