Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

But the problem is that he publicly announced to abandon Symbian three quarters earlier than the first appearence of a new Nokia WP7 Phone...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...profit-warning

It looks more like earthquake to me than diving...:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Just been reading a similar article in the Times today. There was also an editorial piece from Ian King, the Times Business Editor, titled "Nokia may be galloping in the wrong direction". All pretty damning stuff...

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Good time to buy out Nokia for cheepz! Too bad i bought 3 pairs of shoes this month :/

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

At this rate, TMO might just be able to pool enough cash to buy out Nokia.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

good time to buy the shares if their value will increase

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

I think Nokia might just be like an old sport car: full of cool stuff, cheap to buy, and it costs you a hell lot of money each year just to keep it running.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

I would not go even near of Nokia stock for next 3 months.
One more profit warning is likely for Q3, if not even another for Q2.

At that point i will fill my pockets on Nokia stocks as we would be on the silly category where Nokia's assets are much higher than it's market value. If Nokia is going to pay 0,40cent divident per share next year, that if anything would be crazy.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Good luck with that. If you have read the linked article or related reviews, Nokia is expected to issue more sales warnings in next and next's next quarter, until their 'promised' new WP7 phone release.

After that, they'd have to pray to God their WP7 would sell good.

In meanwhile, Elop might try to offset the lost by massive reduction in R&D budget. Fortunately for him, Nokia has huge R&D budget to cut (only next to Google and Samsung but I dont have the figure ATM), and that would buy him some time.....

buy him some time to open his golden parachute before Nokia's stocks drop to hopeless level.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

No new anything shown that's a blockbuster seller, a reduced presence in regards to their market share being somewhere around it was in 1998 or so, the public dropping of MeeGo for the lesser liked and bought (out of Android and iOS options) WP7... yeah.

No surprise here.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

They desperately need a blockbuster, which I think they don't have.

If they think the haptics is it, soon everybody will be doing it, so no big apple-like splash for sure. Besides who knows how this technology will behave.

Better to sit and wait.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

After witnessing other companies get the art of selling to consumer types as well as developer types (Google IO for instance) a lot better than Nokia's perceived PowerPoint style of boring presentation, inability to create true viral advertising on purpose (each time they were successful, it was followed or preceded by worse examples)... Nokia just have that image of being that once cool, but now horribly uncool uncle that wears black socks with Bermuda shorts and sandals and uses decade old slang like it is still in style.

Nokia needs a facelift. Nokia needs to a new identification. Nokia doesn't need WP7 unless they can do something with it that will make more than one sector take notice. Nokia needs to avoid becoming the newest version of the KIN. And they needed to have shown something from their February 2010 announcement of going MeeGo, followed by the hiring of Elop and his "burning ship" memo...

Nothing has been shown thus far and it's now mid-2011. So the stock price even being at $7.10 or so is testament to their prior position. They need to fix things, post haste or risk watching 8.90 to 7.10 being the second biggest drop after the next one.

No good news on the horizon for sales either? I'm waiting on the stock price to drop to $2.90.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

...I make that 40% down from February now. Ouch.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Finally found it: http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...214_758033.htm

According to businessweek, Nokia spends 4 billions on R&D annually; a third of them were going to Symbian and MeeGo/Maemo.

As Elop previously 'promised', this one-third would be paid to Microsoft for WP's licenses...that's to say we'd expect to have at least 1 billion revenue (with high percentage of net profit in it) written into their book next fiscal year.

Microsoft's stocks seem to be more promising than Nokia's in the whole deal.

P.S. in the article it said Nokia's R&D is one-third more than Samsung's, which is really a surprise, consider mobile phones are just part of Samsung's business. Nokia is really huge indeed....

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

in other news, sales of mittens in january skyrocket (july for you southern hemisphere folks ;))

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Oh come on. Let's not blow this out of proportions. Sure, the stock plummeted today after the sales warning. It's normal for investors to be concerned for their profits. And when these fail to appear, they sell shares like "hot cakes".

But we should keep in mind that profits for Nokia have seen a general downward trend for a while now. And even without the Q1 incident in February, when they announced the strategy shift, share price and sales would still have seen a steady decrease. Meantime, the investments in R&D would have increased, at least at a rapid rate for Symbian. Plus, there was no way out of this paradox. Even if they tried (and still do try) to make Symbian a "digestible" OS, they won't succeed, because it can't compete with other mainstream OS's. And sales would still have decreased.

So, from my point of view, a shift in their strategy WAS needed. Too bad that MeeGo/Maemo got caught in the middle.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Q4 2011 and Q1 2012 results appear. Will we see a dramatic increase in sales and share prices after the Nokia-WP products are launched ?

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Let's talk numbers:

Compare Q1 2010 to Q1 2011:
Symbian sales increased by 3.5 million units, up to 27.6 million units sold.

Microsoft sales decreased by 37.5 thousand units, down to 3.7 million units.

Now, who would you say, out of these two companies, needed a shift in strategy the most?

Hint: The increase in Symbian sales were about the same size as the total number of sold Windows Phones.


Sale numbers from Gartner:

http://www.androidarena.com/wp-conte...0881-thumb.png

By the way, last I saw, the stock were down on 1998 levels. In 1998, Nokia had 22.9% of a much smaller market. Back then, Nokia could not dream of the sales numbers they now fear. And what's the present value of a 1998 dollar?

Something is Wrong here.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Wrong is:

• Nokia's management (at least since 2007)
• Nokia's execution (at least since 2007)
• Nokia's management (got even worse 2010)
• Nokia's execution (gets worse and worse)
• Nokia's strategy (since 2/11/2011)

That's wrong.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Thanks for your reply.

First of all the author of the article or us don't try to blow anything out of proportions. Besides, the market response is indeed substantial, otherwise I wouldn't repost the news.

Also, Nokia recalibrates its net sales from previously expected range of EUR 6.1 billion to EUR 6.6 billion for the second quarter 2011 to 'breakeven'. That should be enough to shock the market.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

You have no sales numbers to back up that claim (until Q1 this year, that is). That's all based on the hype and feeling that Iphone is such a revolution and Android is moving too fast, Nokia can't deal with it. From 2007 up until the disaster 9th/11th of February 2011, Nokia sales were increasing.

People who only read Engadget would think me a liar, for that statement. However, that's what the Gartner numbers show. Android and IOS has been growing really quick. But Symbian has also been growing, up unto recently. And honestly, it's much more difficult to grow when you're at 24 million sold units than when you're at 1 million sold units. Nokia may have been said to have saturated their market, while Google has just began to tap theirs.

Truth is, it's in the stock market that Nokia has come to an embarrassing end. Not in the sale booths.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

I can't see the shares going anywhere but down. The MS deal was a merger, I have no doubt. Microsoft will essentially liquidate all Nokia assets except for hardware production. This has been coming for a long time.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Yeah, that's what make people wonder why Elop abandon Symbian in view of such increasing sales figures. That's exactly why the conspiracy theories are flying around.

The problem is that the market doesn't like this fishy deal, thus reflect that in their stocks value accordingly.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

You are funny. No numbers to back it up? Type "NOK" on yahoo finance and look at the share price from 2007 to today.

HInt: Corporations are there to make money for the owners.

And I stopped reading eng*****et about a year ago.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

You're not lying, neither nor Gartner. The focus of the annoucement is about breakeven in net sales rather than change in sales figures. And that re-adjustment in forecast is so huge that shakes the stock values immensely.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Here, adjusted for you!:D

Chill man. He's talking about sales figures, while the announcement is about profit forecast. They're talking about different things. ;)

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

That is a great idea. After all, we all have some money spared, waiting to take Jessie's Girl for a spin...

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

I said sales numbers.

What you are talking about is what the stock market think of Nokia, what I am talking about is what the consumers think of Nokia. I am talking about the actual trade that has been happening but underappreciated by the analysts.Those should be somewhat related, but they aren't at all.

You see the opposite with Apple. If you divide the overblown stock value on numbers of sold Apple products, you get a pretty absurd ratio. It's all in media hype.

:p

Also, Elop has - temporarily, hopefully! - lost 40% of the stock holders' value since February.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Yes. However, it seems sales figures has plummeted since February, also. They're not making the money they estimated because they're not moving the stock they estimated.

Edit:

If it wasn't clear, what I am saying is that Nokia is producing a lot of hardware, generally considered good hardware, and that they have been quite successful in selling this hardware. They have money in the bank. It looks like you can buy Nokia, break it up in parts and sell it with profit.

Today, it's no wonder Nokia stock is falling like crazy. Nokia has ****ed up their turnover and have nothing to sell consumers. What I think is Wrong, is that the situation weren't at all as bad on a three-four year scale as analysts and tech media would have you think.

Nokia could have sold 100 million phones a year for at least another three-four years if they just kept churning out positive statements about Symbian*3. Instead, they chose the path of instant near-bankruptcy. Stock may take several years to recover, even if Nokia can handle the loss in credit rating that the low stock price ultimately means.

Nokia went all kamikaze, when even a failure to fix Symbian should give them profit for years to come. THAT is what seems Wrong to me.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Are you guys serious about this? I'd like to chip in! hehe

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Of course, who would want a phone running on something that the phone maker officially abandoned? :(

Samsung for one annouced to shutdown its Symbian division after Elop's note. That's sad.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

I agree.

I feel it's kinda ironic that it's me that have to pull out these (rather good) Symbian sales figures, since I've never owned a Symbian phone and don't have any intention to get one. I think Nokia is a really stupid company that really messed up their market leadership even when they had one of the biggest research budgets in the world and that they seriously wasted a perfectly good opportunity with Maemo even before Android were a contestant. Bah!

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

All right, I was under the impression this thread is about falling share price after sales warning.

There is Ahonen's well known blog, he has information about unit sales and market share. He also tries forecasts, according to him Nokia's numbers will not be pretty at all.
http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/

Nokia's profit warning is so serious because management reiterated guidance a few weeks earlier with decent unit sales and decent profit. The fact that management had to retract their guidance is an alarming signal of the state of their business and their ability to control their business. This is management failure, plain and simple.

The share price reflects market's expectation about future performance of the company. Nokia's share price was about $40 in fall 2007. Less than 4 years later Nokia's share price closed at $6.69 today.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Here I was thinking focusing on the actual sales numbers for a post or two were related to the sales warning part, but I may be mistaken.

I'm looking at what lies behind the sales warning, because up until recently, and contrary to everything everyone with an online opinion has been communicating for the last couple of years, Nokia still had some whooping sales numbers. Nokia pretty much foiled their short term results all by themselves, IMO.

And I know my message here may not have come out clear, but what Ahonen says is pretty much the same as I have been trying to say: Things weren't so bad. Now they are so bad.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

This is what I wrote 2/12/2011:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...208#post944208

I am sad that I was right, at least with the short term part (ditching Symbian)
I am not hopeful that I will be wrong with the second part (MS alliance).

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Ahonen's blog were quite the good read, too.

Yes, let us all hope we are wrong, however the minute the board lend their ears to the analysts and people like Ahonen, Nokia will change course again. And that might happen well before Windows Phone 8 is in stores.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

i beat money, nokia WP7 gotta fail.
now i am sure of it.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

....

"trade the news".....

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Amazing assumptions on here.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Nokia's been climbing some now. But they never seem to recover to the previous status quo before the next earthquake.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Nokia will bounce back to the top when they complete a working Windows OS device you will see.

Re: Nokia shares dive after sales warning
 

Doubtful. WP7 sales have been panned by AT&T's CEO. For Nokia to bounce back, WP7 better sell. Not just appear as a release.