Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Don't kill the messenger. Just noticed the article up on Engadget this morning. Thought I pass it along, after checking to make sure there is no current thread about it...

OH S**T!! :o

BTW

The Bloomberg article has a lot more ELOP insights.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

doesn't his face just make you want to pin him down and rain down elbows on his face.....

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I had to cry myself.
sob, sob... How could you?

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I gave Elop the benefit of the doubt until this morning.

Every time they give him a microphone he basically says "our products suck so hard! we can't do anything right! By the way, we're releasing a windows phone". The tech blogs eat this up, stocks fall. As the head of a company trying to make a profit, this makes no sense.

I know he is CEO and all, but they probably shouldn't let him speak at conferences.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

The article makes it look as if MeeGo was so full of bugs (or lacking features) back in January that they would not be able to launch more than 3 MeeGo powered devices until 2014.

I don't really understand this. It just doesn't make sense: Are they talking about MeeGo proper or Harmattan?
If Harmattan: How can they release a (hopefully working) product this year if it's so 'unfinished'?
If MeeGo proper: Why not stick to the Harmattan-route then and slowly build it closer towards MeeGo proper until it is ready?

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Hilarious.

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This is just another ridiculous sh*t from Engadget, I don't believe a word of it.

Or if it's true, then Nokia's leadership is indeed incompetent.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Go read the article it refers to, that one is actually a fairly good read.

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I agree this 3 device comment sounds like utterly nonsensical bs.

Once you get 1 out the next one can be very shortly behind it.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Ridiculous sh*t or not, it's not from Engadget, it's from Bloomberg Businessweek.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Well, from the article we can't really say that the abandoned MeeGo. It only says that it didn't had impulse at the time to promote a quick change forward when replacing Symbian, and then they chose WP7 for that.

MeeGo can very well still be there, with only 3 devices until 2014, being worked on until it's ready enough to be Nokia's next big thing.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

This goes to show that perhaps Nokia were right that MeeGo couldn't assure them a place as one of the big three ecosystems:

However, Nokia's own documents show that while MeeGo is not going to be their lead platform anymore it is going to be the recipient of continued development, and that's ok for me.

I don't need to be part of a winning 'platform', i just want an open phone platform, and it looks like i will get it.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

The only part of the story that I can't understand/can't believe is that they only truly acknowledged that MeeGo wasn't ready in januari.
If that really is the case, than the entire development process was not managed well at all.

I love Linux, Maemo 5 and the N900. I also think that Qt is very promising and it does a lot of things really well, BUT I honestly believe that a lot of these technologies just aren't in a ready enough state to be used by mass market general public and smaller app developer companies.

Comparing current Symbian, Maemo and MeeGo software and SDK releases to the iPhone and Apples SDK and you will come to the conclusion that you need a LOT more knowledge of the internal workings of the systems to develop applications for the Nokia platforms.
And that is a huge problem when you try to persuade developers to make applications for the S60v5/Symbian^3 and Maemo/MeeGo platforms.

Comparing to Android and its SDK is a mixed bag. Some things are easier, others are not. WebOS is the same story (but different things are harder/easier).

I haven't used Windows Phone 7 and don't use Windows ( trying the SDK is a bit difficult). So I can't comment on that. I hope for Nokia that it truly is ready and can compete with iOS. If it isn't than I don't see how this situation is any better than going for MeeGo (No install base and a platform and development tools that need a lot of work).

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Then why do we not have five Fremantle devices by now? It's not that easy. The current state of H. is very impressive (indeed, even compared to January), but there is no denying how young and untested it still is. Sure, you could release a number of devices that are essentially the same, but that is not really what Nokia is after.

Who knows, perhaps relieving pressure from it even helped make this quick progress possible in the first place.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Why should it sound nonsensical ? There is a lot to bringing out phones to market than just device manufacturing. There is carrier testing, tie-ins, and all that pre-delivery act.

Anyway , how many Maemo based phones could Nokia deliver after the N900 in a year and a half ? Kind of tells the story doesnt it ?

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

How many iOS-driven models are these Apple guys that they could not respond to, expected to introduce before 2014, to keep that company in the game? Let's see... The 2011 model, the 2012 model and the 2013 model.

I see. That would be impossible to respond to.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

There is a could do and there is a want to do.

I'm pretty positive the could do was there but the want to do was missing.

There's more to organizations than just the CEO. Even if he wants to do something that doesn't translate into every product manager playing in the same direction and to the same goal.

People don't usually do things exactly opposite to what the chief says. But if he leaves room to play and interpret they'll try to continue as much as what they already were doing.

So really he should've checked the pace for replacement planning of Symbian with Meego in October or before and then said ok. this being a January decision makes you wonder what was going on.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

But that's not the point. What was talked was using MeeGo as a replacement for Symbian across the whole range - and Nokia have a much bigger Symbian line up than 1 device/year.

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Exactly, Nokia is a very different mobile company than Apple so just comparingApples high-end strategy with Nokia's low-mid-high range strategy will be difficult.

Symbian spanned across all three catergories and therein Meego could not fill the gap.
While Meego might be great for the high-end only how would you replace the low-mid end with if not with Symbian ?

WM7 I am not sure plays to which category really, but Android at least has shown it works from low-end $99 phones to high-end Samsung Galaxy series. So if WM7 can do that then thats adequte reason for Elop's strategy.

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From the specs of the WP7 phones, it's very possible that it can easily on more underpowered platforms. Not underpowered as current Nokia's low end hardware, but it seems it can fit mid range easily.

And seems like the WP7 experience doesnt need to be sacrified on worst hardware, as Android needs (launchers, lower resolution, etc)

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

So the argument is that although Meego could support a range of phones that could match apple..... it should be put on the back-burner in favour of windows because it is not ready for low end phones?

I would have thought that matching apple in the new world of an ecosystem best centred around one key smart phone.......yes which is different from the old world of low a plethora low end phones which do not support an ecosystem ......that matching that and having nokias own ecosystem should have been the goal?

No....i guess trying to build Microsoft's ecosystem rather than being a competitor makes more sense. Except, Nokia is unlikely to prosper as just another builder of a phone for an ecosystem.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

That's not what Nokia expressed to us. The slides said that MeeGo should be the top edge smartphones, while Symbian should still be the main smartphone OS.

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So what kind of different wp7 or symbian^3 devices are there on the market? Right, except the E6 they're all the same!!

Touchscreen with the same form factor, same UI, maybe a different camera or an additional hardware keyboard, thats it.

This news is ********.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Yeah, I don't see a change on how Noka handles MeeGo with that.

Symbian lines will be migrated to WP7, Meego will be released 1 per year or 1.5 years, as flagship phones as the N900 was. And this will not mean that weren't be WP7 flagship phones, like N97 and N8.

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Yeah, WP7 seems to be a good fit to replace Symbian, engineering wise. I just don't see why and how WP7 could replace MeeGo. Maybe in the future, as newer interactions add more and more functionality to the OS.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Despite the CPU, the memory amount, HVGA res and 5mp camera looks very midrange to me. And by the time Nokia targets WP7 to midrange, there will be much better CPUs available, and the price will drop.

And keep in mind that actually Nokia sells underspecced hardware compared to their competitors. 512 ram and dual cores are the norm in smartphones bleeding edge now. See the original Galaxy S: it's last year design, single core, and it's already a midtier, with an ARM8.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

It was ment to be like this:

http://pic.gsmarena.com/vv/newsimg/0...-touch/big.jpg http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/images/news/platform.jpg

However, with the introduction of MeeGo, the synergy between Nokias platforms increased tremendously. Both MeeGo and Symbian^3 would be Qt based, meaning that the software built for the broad Symbian user base, also would work for the top end devices. Replacing Symbian and ditching the Qt as Nokias main development platform does indeed change everything for MeeGo. Qt and the addition of the Symbian user base were the only advantages many saw here, when Nokia scrapped Maemo for the new MeeGo strategy.

Now, once the new N device is out, Nokia says MeeGo@Nokia will be downsized and moved back to being a R&D project. This is planned to happen with the MeeGo funding:

http://www.carrypad.com/files/2011/02/meegorandd.jpg

That's a pretty steep cutback, especially considering how few devices they got out on the original funding.

Also, we have that whole stock warning situation from this week. Ahonen speculates that Elop may use that to cut MeeGo completely.

So, I do see how Nokia handles MeeGo differently now.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I'm looking at it like this:

I love my N900, it's great and can do a lot of stuff other phones can't, but only because the community stepped up and filled in the gaps. Take a bare stock N900, and tell me it's ready to go toe-to-toe with either iOS or Android for use by the masses.

Yes, I know it was step 4 of 5, and not really ready for the masses. But even given that, I always felt like the OS had been rushed out 80-90% complete, just to get something out the door. I believe that the N900 was released because they had the hardware, had delayed as long as they felt they could and needed to get something moving before the community left, the hardware was surpassed, etc. Feel free to disagree, this is only my thoughts.

However, I can see the project leaders for MeeGo saying everything will be ready on time, don't worry, it'll be great, back in October. A quarter later, in January, excuses are being made, upon further review, it's determined that while they could release something ala the N900 (not quite finished) and hope the community picks up the slack, or face the music and decide it's just not ready.

That kind of fits the scenario of having a bunch of older hardware to pawn off on developers (initial orders were placed on the assumption the OS would be ready), and why you'd need a second device with newer hardware to compete in the mass market when the OS is finally ready for release.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Elop be trollin.

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which when you consider that Nokia was spending $4bn/year on R&D still represents an ongoing Meego/Qt investment of $200m/year.

------------------------------------------

that would be disappointing, but i hope not given the above.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Engadget article reads like pure speculative garbage.

EDIT: thanks Stskeeps for the poke.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Engadget article, yes, businessweek one is a fairly good read.

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Why didn't they just keep rolling ahead with Maemo until Meego was done?

I feel like it wouldn't have taken a whole lot of resources to keep on trucking with Maemo and make a few more of their "internet tablet" range of devices while Meego was still being worked on.

Oh well.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

read the original article instead of engadget one... its not garbage. its serious article imho.

I take the original article as Nokia will NOT drop Meego! I am sure the engineers behind it want it to improve. Not a chance they go to WP7. And I am sure it also is needed if Nokia shall success outisde US/EU.


But its not ready for the massproductioon devices as the board had expected. Nokia seems to have big big problems with the organization! WP7 was only sollution it seems...

I seriously hope there will come new Meego device upcoming years. And I think it still can be the plans for Nokia.

But first lets see whats happening with the device this year :) I hope it will success.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Are you insane?

Meego isn't ready for production, but neither is WP7!!

This whole stinking business is purely Microsoft sacrificing Nokia to hurt Linux market- and mindshare.

In 3 years there will not be a Nokia anymore to make phones.

But Microsoft doesn't care; they're only doing this to delay the onset of mobile Linux for a couple more years.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Read the original article.

My point is that Meego(Maemo) is not ready to be installed on 12 Nokia different devices in a year. WP7 obviously is! The facts that Nokias Meego device still i using deb inmstead of RPM and is not Meego compliant proves enought that Meego is not ready to be massmarket on > 12 nokias devices 2012.

And to be realist I wonder even if Meego, without Nokia, is ready on massmarket, If so were is the damn devices!? Shall we blame Nokia and Microsoft decision for that!?

Only device seen so far is and WeTab and some damn Asus EEE netbook but its 2011!? people want tocuhscreen devices(tablets/handdset) not some damn old HW and netbook.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

The Businessweek article goes a long way in explaining the rationale behind what is happening. Of particular interest is the development towards game changing phones, not icatch up types.

I think if he succeeds...then the old nokia will be brought back to life.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Actual link to the BusinessWeek article:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...2056703101.htm

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the funny thing is i don't care if Nokia catches up, i am not in any useful way a Nokia fan. I just like maemo/meego.

if they put out some good hardware with harmattan on i will buy it, but i will never buy a WP7 phone regardless of whether it i mad eby nokia or not.