Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Hi,
I pre-ordered the n900 and at the time I had several options with real keyboard. Since then, several new devices has been added to my collection. But what I am looking for is a replacement for the n900...just faster.

Now, I can see only two devices with keyboard. Desire Z and E7.

And n9 keyboard is killed..so my Qustions is. Have we seen the last device with real keyboard?

And if so who shall I blame? ;)

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Well, most manufacturers have a Pro version of an Android phone or two, such as the new Xperia Pro and the Galaxy Pro, and then of course there's the Motorola Milestone.

And we certainly haven't seen the last QWERTY keyboard - just look at Blackberry and all its competitors. Nokia and BB have now put touch screens onto one-piece QWERTY devices.

High-end sideways-sliding touch screens with keyboards probably won't die out, but you might have to do more research and be willing to buy online in order to get them.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

As long as there is need for a mobile device for the business-pro-on-the-go, there will be demand, and supply for QWERTY. New/Next gen whiz kids are totally comfortable with a flavor-of-the-month virtual keyboards with swype and whatnot, however with crowd with the middle-age-crisis, not so much. The old-skool pros, who have the pockets to pay $500-$800 for a device, or are in companies that provide mobile devices for their employees, will keep the demand up for a hwkb.

No, they will not go away, yet they will never be the top-selling model of any line-up due to the fact the candybar crowd is the driving force for the market.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

there's also the elusive htc doubleshot that will be renamed as touch 4g slide for t-mo usa and another htc that i forgot the name that will also be released on 3rd or 4th quarter of the year. milestone 3 is coming too..

it may not be as popular and demanding as before because the current battle is being the most finger friendly device. but for a small portion of hw keyboard lovers, there will always be devices to cater them...

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

hello guys,
I am just looking at asus website anf I found this.....

and I can not say any thing, just look at this.

asus padfone

Moderator edit:
Do not add advertising links in your posts

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

That is a mock-up, check the engadget site.
Btw: This thingy actualy exists. The quality may not be good enough, but they have interesting ideas.

Your post (and my answer) does not actually belong here,

Regarding the keyboard: i think not, we people simply like to touch, I mean real object. So as long as that is in demand the need for physical keyboard will remain.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Yes was the right answer :(

I guess you were wrong.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Anyone seen any indications of a landskape keyboard slider phone 2014?

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

The Jolla with physical keyboard other half :-)

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Any indications of official jolla slider? It must have software support to know when not to launch software keyboard.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Not commercially, but as you know there is a thread about it here where you can donate and everything. Jolla was looking quite closely to that thread too. Nothing official though, but it is an indication/possibility/hope nonetheless.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

https://twitter.com/evleaks/status/4...082176/photo/1

Maybe not...

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

OMG that is not a pretty phone :p

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

I remember that in one of the "few" interviews Marc gave in the last year, he said that Jolla "has plans" for other halves, and also hopes for third parties to release some.

there still is hope...

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Yeah, they need to get rid of the two tone finish, apart from that I like it. Hope it sells in modest numbers, so other manufacturers can see that there are still people out there wanting sliders.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

http://cdn.bgr.com/2014/06/keyboard-...martphones.png
Trend of qwerty phones...extinct?

is the only keyboard device 2015? Or Will we see a revival of slider phones. Anyone going for passport...have to say its an intressting format.

http://cnet4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/...passport02.jpg

Review: http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/30/b...ssport-review/

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

BB is tryin' to reclaim the business class...hence the really square design.
good for viewing for the broker-on-the-go .
It's a gamble...but don't expect everyone else to jump on board.
It would have greater promise if it had a high hackability quotient ...
But I don't see it happening.
BB is tryin' to dig themselves out of the rubble and find their niche again...
wish 'em luck.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

I had a chance to try the Passport a bit as a friend has it and the keyboard is really really nice - it is actually also a touchscreen so you can use it for gestures and each key can has basically three state (no touched/not pressed, touched not pressed, pressed) and applications can make use of that. AFAIK the friend is happy with it and us using it as his main device. On the other hand I don't really like how closed and limited (very app-focused & embedded) the BB10 OS is (I participated in the BB10 developer programs an have a Z10 LE so I have some insights to how it works under the hood).

On the other hand a similar device or at least similar keyboard would be a killer combination with Sailfish OS. :)

Also the Passports are as far as I can tell selling like hotcakes, showing people do want keyboard mobile devices - it is just the manufacturers fault not selling them. Hopefully some of them will notice the success of the Passport (and TOHKBDv2) and reverse the unfortunate trend. :)

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

I have it. I think it's brilliant, but not for everyone due to the size.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

You need quite literally deep pockets to have it. :)

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

As long as patent troll companies sue each other over who invented the round or square edge and users continue to amazed and entertained by their yearly 1mm thinner candybar phone upgrade there is no economic place for the keyboard phone to be made by a small player that has global commercial ambitions such as Jolla.

This weekend I tried the Blackberry Pasport in a store.
Actually I did not have much time alone with it as the seller was like a spider in a web onto everyone touching it, eager and genuinely enthusiastic to show off his personal passport setup after 2 weeks of using it as his primary. Funny he was congratulating me touching the greatest device in the whole store (large FNAC in France) and the colleages seemed to agree.
I entertained him with many many questions (one more rhetorical than the other) and finally got asked for the picture as proof of activity on Blackberry sales efforts. :)

The device looked not to big at all, actually a little less nice in finish then I had imagined but still good and of course the keyboard is a true relief being it for typing or for smart scrolling and activating windows.
Camera seemed lacking macro option but the focus went really close and thanks to the large screen it is very convenient to touch move the focal point around.
Selecting files for sending via email, wifi, BT etc seemed to work as expected.
For the business types opening an spreedsheet was pure joy to the eye.
Browsing looked good indeed and there is a reader function like in Firefox.

But on the other hand it quickly looked like starting all over again: cookies options, quickly and selective anabling of javascript / flash options, it all looks so limited.. compared to even MicroB.
Where's the call recorder (gave some MP3 downloader Android based, no thanks) built in SIP,.. when I notice the seller selecting text with a magnifying glass option and taking his time my evil side took overhand and I told hime that's to slow man, pulled my N900 and showed him a how text is selected desktop style cursor followed ctrl+v, ctrl+c on my 2 times smaller by todays standard cute, little device.
From the looks of N900's open windows and smooth operation I don't think in that shop anybody could tell its 256MB and 600Mhz age.

A little nerd battle a day keeps the doctor away. ;)

It was clear one of us had no prior notion of the existence of the other , favorite device.

I am sure the Passport is great if you want to get stuff done (business style) and one of the best options if you can't stand sacrificing 1/3rd of your glorious big screen for online typing most of the time But for me personally throwing principles that make me support Jolla and paying 600 to start all over again 2 steps forward one step back..
No thanks, I 'll just wait and see.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/t...y-futurefon--3

Fishy...

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

what happened with motorola's next droid? there were even pictures floating around. lauta?

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

It lost its keyboard somewhere between the images and release :(

No but there is still rumours of droid 5 with qwerty but it's...classified.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

I don't know all you were shown, but the text selection on the Passport is awesome. Maemo's is good too. But BlackBerry 10 has no limitations. And you should see text selection when editing a document. You can use the touch sensitive keyboard in an interesting way.
And no macro for the camera? It focuses very close and knows when macro is needed.
The Passport is not very everyone. But it's a great device.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

You and your obamaquotes.jpg :P
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=2655

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Quick reply...
Yes, BlackBerry Passport looks great. Unique. One but: can I boot anything open-source on it? Nemo Mobile, or something? Even if it will be not working for most parts of it... It would be a joy to show off, five years later, old BlackBerry Passport device, with open-source operating system, to those who will use thin-ish, bendable phones.

Best wishes.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

BlackBerry Passport:
looks like something to warn the toddlers to stay away from,
.
With corners like that you could use it hand-to-hand combat:
.
With an OS like that,
not something I will ever buy.
.
As far as keyboards go,
anticipate something new besides a slab of buttons
or a waste of perfectly good (and expensive) pixels.
.
Somebody will eventually build a new way of input
.
It just makes little sense at all to retask
valuable Visual display real estate
-in favor of-
mechanical input (cheap) territory

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

On Android phone you will be able to install Sailfish.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

[QUOTE=theonelaw;1449654]
.
As far as keyboards go,
anticipate something new besides a slab of buttons
or a waste of perfectly good (and expensive) pixels.
.
/QUOTE]

Yes I follow you, I already decided not to want / purchase any car untill something new arrives... Waiting 20 years..

Until that day, I 'd put my money on a HW keyboard.


The pixels are still a cheap solution to omit real hardware input design, and it seems they are now adding a second pixel plate to function as keyboard, screen whatever..

http://www.techshout.com/mobile-phon...ys-whats-next/

It's going to get worse before it gets better :D

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Awesome link, too bad its Android. Still - Gionee is interesting.
.
Yes, the last road vehicle I ever owned and liked
was a 1963 Toyota Landcruiser (back in 1983, mind you).
It was as rough as anything on the road back then,
but I could disassemble it with almost any decent toolset.
Some screwdrivers, a few wrenches and allen keys
and a decent socket set and you could fix anything that ailed.
.
Contrast that to what they sell these days,
where the manufacturer goes to some special kind of hell
to make it impossible for the owner to do anything more
serious than simply change the oil.
.
That is a big reason I just don't participate in the road vehicle market anymore.
(They do have some interesting stuff on the Indian market,
but nothing street legal for almost anywhere else on the planet.)
.
My wife and I just walked past the Maserati shop this evening
and she asked me if I wanted one
- just the thought of trying to do anything
with one made me cringe.
.
We can fix an N900, I have opened up all three of mine
and taken one of them down to the PCB skin.
Contrast that to most of the rubbish you see today.
.
I am not very happy with keyboards the kludge they are,
but being able to intercept the boot process is almost priceless.
A bluetooth attached keyboard cannot do that.
.
For a keyboard I can wait.
- I have a growing collection of dead-end
gear but I am getting closer enough to see a glimmer :D
of something interesting already on my horizon.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

perhaps ...for now.
What happens when Android ends up getting rooting locked down...and impossible to hack your own device?
which is coming BTW...
what happens to Sailfish on Android then?
or any OS on Android then....for that matter.
or any kind of personal choice as to what you want to do with your Android device.
I think the whole happy lil' Android hacking community will be stuck ...and will simply implode...
best bet then ...if you want a hackable Android...any control over your own device at all ...
I imagine Replicant will become quite popular indeed... when rooting joy-joy ends for Android.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Sources please, not just speculation & frightening children...

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

here is the conversation going on concerning...

http://www.xda-developers.com/androi...id-l-lockdown/

https://plus.google.com/+Chainfire/posts/VxjfYJnZAXP

http://forums.androidcentral.com/sam...ht-ending.html

http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/05...to-root-users/

Already Android OTA updates remove/ break root ....for "security"....making it either a minor pain to fix or a major week to month(s) long headache depending on the device...

This isn't "by accident" this is a deliberate step in a deliberate direction.
I don't think this is fear mongering, it is simply stating what is happening right now...and seeing the logical natural outcome.
Like letting go of an apple...gravity takes over...it falls

The point is root lockdown for Android is coming and most likely bootloader with it...it is an obvious next conclusion.
1- Android is courting Big Business now.
2- Android is courting Governments now.
both want security assurances.
and to just be an additional pain in the butt ...the device manufacturers want not just the root priv. locked down but the bootloader as well...Motorola...is one company example pushing hard. It's all about business...about liability.

So it only stands to reason...if you are a ...say a major banking institution...and you want to provide your clients with the latest easy apps for immediate-unrestrained-anywhere one-swipe access to their funds ....who are you going to look to?
It's about THEIR liability (same goes for the retailers you are using the banking app with..) how safe and secure the client is...perpetual media stories of "so-and-so had all their records stolen/ rifled through/ passwords or personal client account info compromised..." does not instill confidence, stock stability, etc..the reverse it can destroy companies...

A- The device and os which is totally clamped down...no one can change/ alter/ hack/ to put un/ knowingly a compromising "bit" into.

OR:

B- the device which is wide open...
hackable and compromised from the get go... .
Or even just undermine the device/ os security enough that it shows to the world an access to an exploitable vulnerability?
Or worse, the device un/knowingly turned into a tool of invasive exploitation or infection against other devices it communicates with?

From a business and liability perspective...you go with the safest and most secure system....for you , your shareholders, your stocks stability, and your clients.
BB back in the day...
Loved old back-in-the-day BB.
was a freakin' brick wall.
It was their strong point.
For secure business and comm. I'd trust that...or something like it today...nothing can be installed or altered that hasn't been screened 1st.

But for freedom and choice...real choice...for me it's maemo and linux.
that freedom means I can write good or malignant programs and install them...use them..it's about knowing what is socially acceptable and what is right too.
All that is taken away when the choice is taken with it.
Governments and Big Business don't want to "hope" we'll all do the right thing.
"Hoping" has been a mixed bag of profitable successes and very expensive liability and security-compromised failures... too expensive so far...I'm sure they would like to see only successes.
They want to "know" we'll do the right thing.
And that means the freedom to choose goes with it..
It makes sense...handheld pocketable very very powerful devices now on the verge of competing directly with laptop and desktop computing power hell...with octocores and greater being developed...come at us now yearly...hell every six months or less now.. at an ever alarming speed and increased power and ability...EVERYONE having one...with the ability to connect to just about everything...
Standing back a step and looking at the big picture ...we can now potentially tamper with serious stuff ..while we sit on the bus..on a park bench...flat out that is pretty scary.

So yeah...big picture-wise...it strikes me as a foregone that as the devices become more interconnected and powerful...the natural conclusion is to start locking things down for the safety of the public good.

Anyway...I see it coming like an obvious next step...for Android.
Thing is ...let's say it does get it's bootloader and root locked down.
I'm curious...are there any examples of linux os's that are like that?
So chained? Is it even technically part of the family anymore?

So ...come the next few years we'll see what devices sporting android are even able to have an alternate os on them.
Nexus (so far from what I've studied )...seems determined to hold out..
Addendum...
It ain't like I got a hate on for Android BTW.
I believed there was alot of promise back in the day...
Personally I've enjoyed pissin' around with Nitdroid...and the like.
I just am beginning to think more and more that the real open future of Android doesn't belong with Android anymore...

as I like to muck about...
I don't say Repli-can't...I say Repli-can (:D)

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Thanks, interesting reading. I have to admit I was not aware of that.


Well up to now it's just affecting device rooting. (and I could not care less about that, have no need to have root on android devices I do not have :p)
I am not so sure it follows that bootlockers will be locked, though. No special profit in that whether the OS is locked or not IMHO.
This would affect me a lot more, since it directly affects my ability to iinstall sensible OS'ses to my devices.


Nope, on this I have to disagree and fortunately I am in the position to know a little bit about these things too :)
System security always depends on the defending end to keep its guards up. There's no excuse to slack on security on the pretext that "we have locked away all the bad guys, no worries now"
Anyone doing that will deserve what's coming to them. And they will be fired too, yes.
Remember, if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.


I am fairly sure it will not go to that, partly due to tha fact that androidisky peoples need rootz.
If the devices start to become too much like apples&windowses, I believe users will move to the not-yet-locked-androids, and the device manufacturers pretty quick revert their evil designs. :)

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Some good points there, endso. The only nit I would like to pick is this:

You see, I don't think at all it is security they want. No, sir. It is control. Yes, they may try to sell it as security to the masses but that's about it.

Juice has touched upon it too. A locked OS or bootloader will not protect your bank emails or details. Those are dealt with at the application layer anyway. XKCD has expressed it the best:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/authorization.png

BTW, I like Juice's upbeat conclusion but I am not that optimistic. Just look at how many people - and, even more confusingly, companies, who have vested interest in wanting security and trained IT professionals to maintain it for them - use Windows on their computers and iOS on their phones.

As far as masses are concerned, they usually do not even care about such things. As long as they can choose from 500 fart apps and run Whatapp, whatever that is.

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Funny... What about N900 brick, then? Ok, ok, N900 has more rounded corners :-)
That's the question. I have heard that it is possible to flash a different version of BlackBerry OS to a BlackBerry device (like an upgrade), but is it possible to flash an entirely different Operating System? And if yes, then is there a tool-chain or something to compile Nemo Mobile for BlackBerry device?
Well, BlackBerry's keyboard allows to make gestures without obscuring the display. That invisible finger has to count for something. Besides, BlackBerry Passport already crams in a lot of pixels with its 400+ ppi.
Then suggest some new way of input :-) If a manufacturer likes it, they may possibly incorporate it into a new model.
Just put it the other way around: "valuable" touch screen, covering whole surface of device, with virtual keyboard always open (no need to tap the textbox until the device finally concedes that you need the keyboard), and with realistic feeling of the buttons on the virtual keyboard (as in, you know when button is pressed; you do not have to look up to the display all the time to see where the misprint happened, you can just type blindly).

Maybe, they could have done it differently. Maybe, they could have made the plastic keyboard buttons absolutely transparent (instead of black), and put a part of LCD display below it, to make switching between different keyboard layouts easier-more-visible. Question is, how do you imagine transparent steel dome? Mounted within a transparent dome array? Alright, alright, white plastic of dome array can probably be made transparent, too. But steel dome, what would you do with it?
http://www.snaptron.com/wp-content/u...1/series-p.jpg
http://www.snaptron.com/wp-content/u...ndard-PNP1.jpg

Disclaimer: I do not know how, physically, keyboard+touchpad in BlackBerry Passport works. But I do enjoy the novel approach to the problem.

Best wishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

I trade all of it for normal, blind-write friendly keyboard - with bindable layers, that don't even require switching layouts - preferably as easy to repair/replace as N900's one is, any day. Thanks.

BTW - N900 is only device with 38 buttons, where I'm able to bind whole set of "big" keyboards buttons and NEVER, ever bother with changing layouts. Some claim that zaurus things were able to do it, too. No surprise to see that pitiful look on my face, when people talk about "alternate input methods" instead of real keyboard, on the things that are meant to provide desktop PC functionality on the go, eh?

/Estel

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

You have an exquisitely correct perspective:
I deal with this daily where I live and work: :mad:
the security threats are deemed to be everywhere
- each and every deviant visible must be approached,
confronted aggressively to incite any hidden dormant rebellion,
and the parties associated with such deviations exiled from public.
The problem is they come after you based on things like
the color of your skin, your choice in clothing, how you walk,
and all sorts of things that have absolutely zip to do
with being a threat to society.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...bucksGuard.jpg
The excuse that there are threats is used and inflated
to justify AK-47 armed guards being posted at the entry
to coffeeshops, metal detector/handbag xrays in every shopping mall.
http://thegimleteye.com/wp-content/u...26-225x300.jpg
I, and all my co-workers, go through airport-level security theater
many times -each day- just going to work and lunch, and whatnot.
.
This is why I prefer to have an n900, as opposed to a laptop,
which always involves a stripdown.
http://citizensvoice.com/polopoly_fs.../695860602.jpg
The whole thing is spinning insanely into an Orwellian wet dream.
The security theater was never about dealing with threats.
It is a collusion being not very decent people on opposite sides
of political idealogies agreeing on a scheme to divy up the
masses so that they end up controlling large swathes of people.
x
And this philosophy leaks down like overflowing septic tank on stilts.
(not a joke in any sense - this is a very common site here)
x
We can see this in things like drug-testing and all sorts
of employer behaviour. :rolleyes:
x
And one of the biggest threats to device security is a keyboard.
http://neo900.org/static/neo900-t.png
They can have my keyboard when they pry it out of my cold
dead mannequin they find when they come looking for me.
I will be very elsewhere at that moment. :cool:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2526/...d175962d_m.jpg
{/service hyper-paranoia restart}
Sorry about any missing images, I am shameless about that :D

Re: Have we seen the last device with real keyboard...
 

Heh...

Well, with this kind of security theater, it's not wonder that people "joke" that the cheapest (for house owner) and most secure way to protect your house from thieves (in absence of house owner) is to have terrorist paraphernalia clearly visible everywhere. Then the anti-terrorist forces will have the house on 24/7 surveillance; and any sane thief will not touch the house, not even with 100-foot stick.

Best wishes.