Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

I've not seen hide nor hair of new MeeGo tablet hardware in many months and the hardware that's out there is old and snooze worthy. Anybody with their ear to the ground know what's up?

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

MeeGo on tablets?? Blatherskite, I say! I'll believe it when I see one in my own hands--or see one in person or at least commonly available enough that many people have seen one in person. MeeGo's tablet ambitions are humbug, at this point.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

IOS & Android rule the market.

Consider this why would anyone risk and base hardware on the platform that has not proved itself, while there is working, established OS like Android, which allows you to shoot out a new product every 6 months?

In order for meego to succeed, it has to provide wildcards that are strong game changers.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Is meego even ready for commercial products? Glancing through bugs.meego.com I see quite a of important unresolved bugs. A tablet running meego would need to be noob friendly, so that an average user won't have to go hunting through forums to resolve mysterious bugs while his friend with the iPad just does whatever folks with tablets do.

Better be late and be able to survive as an accomplished if niche OS rather than rush out the gate and mar its name as a buggy, unusable OS suitable only for neckbeards. The bad, geeky, non-friendly name on the street is what killed symbian and also dogged android for quite a long time.

sigh> I know, I know, it sounds a lot like I'm rationalizing and desperately trying to see the silver lining here... It's because, frankly, I'm kind of doing it at this point.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Y U NO MeeGO?

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

MeeGO = NO GO, U KNO?

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Meego DEAD u no?.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Not yet, but anybody want to get the Dremel ready for MeeGo's headstone?

http://pleco.org/heh/MAEMO-RIP.jpg

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Is it me or does the logo of "Maemo" seem much better than "MeeGo"?
Also sounds a little better?
Also "Maemo" can create better puns;
Maephone, Maepad, MaeTV, MaeTube, MaeDJ, MaeBoard, MaeBooks, Where's MaeDevice?

edit: Dan, I like your sig
wpSEVEN ATE nNINE

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

I think you're the FIRST person to point that out. :) Wondered how long that would take. heheh

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Can someone tell me the difference between Maemo and Meego? and no i am not on about basic structure. :rolleyes:

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

MeeGo uses rpm's instead of deb's, for package management, for one. MeeGo is based on QT rather than GTK+ like Maemo was (Harmattan being the abomination of the two and very bloated and confused as a result). MeeGo was SUPPOSED to be 100% open-source, then manufacturers were supposed to pretty much provide binary blobs on their devices to allow it to operate (drivers, app stores, etc.) whereas Maemo irrevocably held the open-source portions hostage to a massive closed-source architecture you wouldn't unweave back out of (not just drivers... media player, calendar, power system, etc.). I'm sure there's more--but that's the few bits I'm aware of... and then Harmattan is this in-between monstrosity that doesn't quite fit into either camp. It's like the ugly mongoloid bastard that nobody wanted while everyone was waiting for open-source MeeGo to actually come out on devices or at LEAST get supported.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Meego is not open source, no matter what people say. 1% of binaries is enough.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

By that logic, neither is Android.
But it is more than open enough to be ported to/fro devices and show up on cheap chinese devices.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

True, but I did not argue for the benefit of Android either.

I am sort of annoyed when something is advertised (I don't accuse danramos of that) as open source, when in fact it is not (all nokia devices).

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Google doesn't go out of their way to puffer on about Android being open-source the way Nokia did about Maemo and MeeGo, though. To their credit, they separated the closed-source from the open-source enough that you COULD make an ENTIRELY open-source operating system for a device with only a very, very small amount of closed-source for drivers and Dalvik. YouTube, Google Maps, etc. were all ripped away from the OS itself so that you could put in whatever you wanted and didn't end up actually REQUIRING those things to be in the OS for it to work... and you can EASILY replace them with open-source (or other closed-source) equivalents VERY easily. Insultingly easy compared to Maemo.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

To be honest. MeeGo for netbooks is a true PITA and the reason is that every little piece of driver has to be open source or the MeeGo team will not redistribute it. Someone else could of course build a distro based on pure MeeGo and included "closed" drivers, but why do that when there are millions of other good working distros out there that works independent of Intel?

For OEMs this doesn't matter, they can include whatever they need/want. Still, where is the ecosystem for these MeeGo systems? Is it just supposed to happen by itself in the cloud somewhere? Obviously this is a dead end. MeeGo need an ecosystem, not open sources.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

please merge this thread with all other dupliicate threads....

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Yes, it is open-source. It's just a standard, generic Linux distribution. Not very different from Ubuntu, for example.

All modern Linux distributions have closed-source binary drivers; video card drivers, at the very least.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Well, except that most other modern Linux distributions don't interweave their closed-source in such a way as to make it virtually impossible or incredibly difficult to remove the closed-source from parts of the OS that have nothing to do with the hardware (i.e. calendar app, multimedia, etc.). Maemo did.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Dude, no offence, but you're rambling and not making sense.

Yes, Maemo is a closed-source monstrosity.

Meego, on the other hand, is a very generic, very much run-of-the-mill standard open-source Linux distribution.

They are two very different OS's.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

For once, let us clear what term "Open Source Software" is supposed to mean.

Originally it was devised to serve as a synonym to "Free Software" (as in freedom, like rms says). Most people do comprehend the two terms and synonyms and apply Open Source to the end user.

Unfortunately, the initiatives like Android and Meego are targeting hardware vendors instead. From their point of view (hardware vendors), Open Source is Free Software, but from the point of end user, Open Source != Free Software.

I hope I made everything clear now. Meego and Android are not Open Source for end users, we need true Free Software (as a free beer) for the end users.

Now I ask you: are you a vendor or an end user?


BTW somebody mentioned more liberal licensing somewhere: More liberal licensing (than GPL) from the point of vendor means ability to screw end users by limiting the lifetime of a device.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

MeeGo and Android could certainly be that. The problem is the attitude of the hardware manufacturers, regardless of the platform they use.

And as it stands, if you try to force the issue with the GPLv3 they'll just walk away. Pick your battles.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

No they will not. It takes years to develop os.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Vendors are wary to the point of being phobic about FOSS and surrendering control to users. See the debacle with the locked bootloaders and software blobs on android handset manufacturers. Factor in the almost mccarthy-esque paranoia about tech secrets and patents, and I find it very hard to believe that a true FOSS OS (meaning truly GPL 3 compliant) would be viable in today's market. The big players would probably not even touch it.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Imagine the situation where Linux kernel goes GPL3 in future.

Some may choose to follow google and apple (fork existing project, if they are bold enough), more will choose to accept it (and continue business as usual), but none will start development from scratch, it is too late for that.

Besides, I think we are already off the topic. :)

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Again. Let me stress something, for the third time in this thread:

MeeGo is a standard Linux distribution, not at all different from Ubuntu, CentOS, Debian or Mint or what-have-you.

Being a very simple and generic Linux distribution, MeeGo does not hardware vendors any more than Ubuntu or CentOS target hardware vendors.

The difference is that for desktop and server systems you can buy an open, standard commodity system and install any OS you wish. For handsets and tablets -- not so much, yet.

P.S. Even so -- desktop and server Linux distributions need hardware vendor support, too. Though the support usually comes in the form of a couple binary blobs for video/network chips.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

The thing I resent with android is that ugly java crap. The ideology, openness and all that is just fine, but putting a shitty software based java engine in there makes it just so damned inferiour to all the possibilities given by an OS where you can develop applications in native code.
I have looked at the android tablets, and they actually look slow and jerky.
(No, I don't like any of the iCrap ones either, don't even go there).
To be honest, OP is right. I would have loved seeing a tablet in future based on MeeGo. Look at the possibilities, with Qt and the (real) linux based software in it.
Android in my oppinion is just plastic linux, not the real deal.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Meego does not belong among aforementioned distributions. Reason: governing methods (you might argue about ubuntu and centos in some aspects).

There is no rational reason for that.

Ok, lets count the binaries:
- nvidia (not essential)
- ati (not essential)
- broadcom (well if this counts since GPL-ed drivers works better).
- ???
please complete the list.

The first 2 may become essential in future due to the gnome 3 dependency on clutter.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

MeeGo is governed by the Linux Foundation. What is Ubuntu governed by?? Mark Shuttleworth?

Indeed, and I'm sure that many people agree with you on that. (Intel top-managers among them. :))

Nvidia and ATI are essential. (Unless you don't ever-ever want to watch a movie or play a game on your device...)

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/governance

It's a lot like MeeGo--only they seem to have a more diverse population of participants than MeeGo allows (from commercial, mainly Canonical as the holder of trademarks and largest contributor, to hobbyists to end-users) and they seem to have their collective organization and participation together better too. You really should try Google more often and read up before you try to make it a point of argument.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Please read this.
Quote: The MeeGo project is hosted by The Linux Foundation.
And this please.

As for Mark Shuttleworth and Ubuntu, I've already mentioned that you might argue about Ubuntu and CentOS.

Among hardware manufacturers Intel is the most open (network cards, wifi, chipsets, graphic cards).

You can not play movies? Do you need 3D graphics for watching a movie? :rolleyes:

Which games? Linux is not famous as a gaming platform. :confused:

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

I could argue the point by making the case that the reason for that might be because there are so few graphics drivers specifically designed for Linux with performance in mind--thanks to closed-source binary blob drivers... and because of the simple chicken-and-egg problem: Linux gets fewer games because there are fewer Linux desktops... and there are fewer Linux desktps used in gaming because there are fewer games.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Good lord, that is my point.

MeeGo is governed in pretty much exactly the same way that Ubuntu is governed.

Either you can call both open-source, or you can call both closed-source.

Claiming that MeeGo is somehow more 'closed' than Ubuntu is a ridiculous and utterly ******ed double standard.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Uh, dude, read it yourself. From your link, the very third sentence:
The MeeGo project lives under the auspices of the Linux Foundation.

You're too ridiculous to even have this discussion with, please go troll somewhere else.

Yes, you absolutely 100% do need 3D graphics for watching a movie.

Unless you're content with watching only postage-stamp sized 320x200 'movies', that is. But no sane person on this planet really means watching 320x200 clips when they're talking about watching movies.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

You do _not_ need "3D" (what are you describing with that term anyway? A separate GPU? render-to-texture?). What you need is enough horsepower*, be it from the application processor/ main CPU directly, or from DSP, or from GPU acceleration, to push a certain amount of pixels (compressed or even uncompressed) during a given timeframe. Maybe additional time/power to post-process them.

If you have to implement video playback, using software rendering _or_ any form of accelerated playback is depending on the combination of HW+SW on that particular SoC / board.

Gosh. People did "WOW!" stuff all the time for years, and almost all of them in _software only_. Guess you never watched creations from the demo scene during the (at least) 1990s.

* measured in whatever values you want: DMA bandwidth, cache size, MIPS, whatever.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

I dislike the term "troll". Saying to someone "you are troll(ing)" is same as saying "you are Nazi". I would appreciate if you could avoid labeling me in future.

We may have different opinions. Everybody are entitled to opinions and ability to express them. If there is a conflict of opinions, both sides should try to resolve it in civil manner.

I wanted to point you to the fact that open source and open does not always mean what we assume. It is all about the fine print.


EDIT: Added the following:

This thread was about "Where are all the MeeGo tablets?".

We are still waiting for the answer, but please note that the last TSG meeting occurred on April 14th 2011.
This can mean either of two things:

• meego is loosing the momentum
• they have chosen to be less open of their activities

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

In 2011, here and today, for playing back movies you need a decent GPU with DSP, and the only way to make use of the GPU/DSP is via a proprietary binary blob.

End of story, there is nothing to discuss here. Anything else (including reminiscing about the demoscene as it was 25 years ago) is totally off-topic.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

No, it means something else entirely.

The only hardware manufacturer who is interested in openness is Intel, but as of 2011 there isn't an Intel CPU or SoC that is good enough for tablets.

ARM manufacturers aren't interested in openness, in fact, they stand to profit from closed, proprietary systems.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

"the only way to make use of the GPU/DSP is via a proprietary binary blob." That i do not reject, as we all (should) know it's a common situation. I still don't get it why you reject anything else besides GPU/DSP. What was your background again? You can "play video" solely using software playback, even 1080p60 and similar formats. If it is within "acceptable performance" on a given system is written on another page.

"End of story, there is nothing to discuss here." I find you quite ignorant. Nothing as good as a fruitful and fulfilling discussion...