My First N900
 

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have obtained my first N900. I have spent about an hour with it thus far. I have a few questions for those with nothing better to do or those with hearts of gold:

Am I going to need to flash this thing to get it to do what I want? Meaning, is it going to fight me for root or bar me from readily accessing system resources and drivers?

If so, what firmware would you suggest? I am only coming across documentation from almost two years ago. Are there newer developments? (Yes, I know I have much reading to do and you aren't here to hold my hand. I answer questions in UNIX/BSD forums so be nice. I'm all over it)

I suppose I am asking what you guys do on your development N900s?

Also, what can't I do that I could do on a typical Linux system? I'm really in the dark with this platform. I don't know what Nokia has and has not toyed with. What are some key applications/tweaks you would suggest. Thus far, I've pretty much only installed some command line necessities.

Sincerely,

Abe

Re: My First N900
 

1. You don't need to flash it. Just install CSSU stable (or testing if you want to risk a reflash). Familiarize yourself with the cssu wiki page (including the strange hildon desktop problem)
2. What you can't do: aptitude gui isn't working (but command line yes), there are some apps that are not on n900. But you'll be happy, as there's Easy Debian, which will make you able run all the open source progs that are on Debian! (With LXDE too!)

Re: My First N900
 

Really? LXDE? I don't use it myself - but even still. Any other window managers/desktops attempted? I think Openbox might be nice but perhaps not the best with the cascading menu on such a small screen. I know LXDE isn't a resource hog on typcial hardware but does it show bloat on the N900?

Thanks for the help,

Abe

Re: My First N900
 

1. Bought it second hand? If so, flash it, so at least you know what condition your device was in, just before you crashed it while experimenting ;)

2. Any info you'd possibly want about flashing, find it here
http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware

3. For learning books on linux, have a look at my signature for a download of ebooks.

4. LXDE is what Easy Debian ships with by default. Personally I dislike LXDE and always replace it immediately with Enlightenment, aka, E17. More on that over here:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66531

Re: My First N900
 

hey congrats

flash the device to pr1.3 use the international ver
install backup menu start the device with the keyboard open you can perform backups, boot to terminal, usb host mode.
cssu will give you the latest in community enhancements
enhanced busy box and bash
power kernel v49 is the latest kerenel for the device

it is very similar to debian distro ..you can find the maemo sdk in the tab above marked development. wikis are kept up to date use the power search on the right in liu of the forum search. debian ldxe is not installed by default ..it has been compiled to run via chroot on the device. Baktrax distro has also been compiled to run on device if that interests you oh and windows 3.1 lol

good luck and have fun

edit: faster app manger is good for installing programs, not for pr updates or cssu and you can also use apt from the command line if you prefer you will also need rootsh to get root access

edit2 also you may have to add extra testing and devel repositories for some of the above apps

Re: My First N900
 

This was the answer I was looking for. You are my "Maemo Hero", Mike. Thank you.

Regards,

Abe

Re: My First N900
 

With Easy Debian you can install gcc.
But beware: if you install too many pkgs at once, your N900 will crash
Best use apt-get! - synaptic is very cpu-hungry!

Re: My First N900
 

I've had my N900 for a year now, and haven't yet found the need to flash it even once. I've been using the convenient "rootsh" package to perform root actions; information about this package (and other issues involving root) can be found in the root access wiki page.

I've seen no real need to play with any of the modified kernels yet, nor have I found any desire to mess with the CSSU as yet. The stock Maemo environment is a full fledged, fully open Linux distribution; you can do plenty without changing a thing!

This... is actually a hard question to answer. Of course, the hardware limits you to some extent -- you've got to live within the means of the memory and processing power of the phone. But, so far as I've been able to tell, you can run pretty much whatever you want on the machine. (Of course, you have to compile it for the ARM architecture...)

Re: My First N900
 

This can be avoided by putting swap on a SD card and performing the IO Improvement Swappolube tweak.

Re: My First N900
 

First of all, I would recommend performing repartitioning, most preferably using GUI solution (via package Backupmenu, it's mass-storage read & write mode, and linux PC - be it true linuxbox, or any other just booted with linux liveCD). The earlier You do it, the less concern if You manage to break something.

If You're planning to be "serious" Easy Debian user (or want, for example, Chromium or LibreOffice running from Maemo, via Easy Debian), You should add 4th. partition - 3GB should be sufficient in most cases - that You will use as native partition for Debian chroot, instead of using image file on vfat (performance reasons). I would recommend using ext4 as it's filesystem (it adds kernel-power to list of installed packages before starting - alongside backupmenu - as stock kernel doesn't have ext4 support).

If You're power/advanced user of GNU/Linux overall (not afraid of modifying some things latter, mess using terminal etc), You may consider reformatting Your home (/dev/mmcblk0p2) to ext4, while, of course, also increasing it's size (in cost of MyDocs - aka /dev/mmcblk0p1 - partition, as it was while creating dedicated partition for ED). Consider this advice only, if You're knowledgeble, and understand how to modify boot scripts related to /home/ (to make them consider it ext4), or You can search & read wiki/forum threads with understanding ;) (I learned about it by reading, decided to perform, got sure that I understand WTF, and it went flawlessly - before that, I had no idea how it works).

If You're planning to use swap on microSD (which is only possible sane approach, unless You like decreasing performance without any gain), You may consider resizing /dev/mmcblk0p3 (SWAP) partition, to something like 100MB - You won't use it at all, so it's only failsafe reserve. No need for it to occupy 768 MB.

Then, You can happily proceed to joyful and straightforward process of installing CSSU, kernel-power (if You haven't decided to use filesystem different than default ext3, that require having kernel-power before repartitioning), Easy Debian (remember to mount it's image file somewhere, and cp -a it's content to Your dedicated partition, then modify ED scripts to use it from partition, instead of filesystem image), and whatever package You feel fancy.

And, if You haven't started screaming and running after reading this - it's all quite well documented, logical and stable, so don't get confused by how complicated it sounds, written in short manner here in my post ;)

/Estel

Re: My First N900
 

I made the swappolube tweak, but have no microsd card. Why does it work alright when on a card?

Or do you think about an additional swap on the memcard?

Re: My First N900
 

Congrats :)

when you say develop, you mean the SDK right?
http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/user-guide.html

I prefer the ubunto vmware:
http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-d...Image_Final.7z

If you don't know linux or developing, it's a hellish way to learn :(

You'll find that if you turn vibration and leave the phone on silent the battery will last way longer or turn all sounds but calls and messages off, works well too

Re: My First N900
 

Hi Abe, once you have all of the above nailed down (or like me fry your brain and need a break now and again) why not take a look through the creative works in the Show off your Maemo 5 screenshots thread?

It is a huge thread but mostly full of pics and tips on how to customise your desktop to your very own liking. You could quite literally transform you n900 into another phone if you wish :)

Re: My First N900
 

@Old Abe,

One thing to add, in case you haven't done it yet: install openssh. This gives you both client and server. No need to explain the benefits of this :)

Re: My First N900
 

I installed openssh within the first ten minutes of having my phone (along with a few other necessities). I'm not kidding.

Thanks for the suggestion. Have any more?

Abe

Re: My First N900
 

@Old Abe,

Happy about that :)

I'd recommend having a look at BackupMenu as well as the thread about a recovery console. May help you in case you need to unbrick the N900 :)

Add: scratch that. seeing your rececent posts it looks like you've been through that already (except maybe the recovery console).

One thing that might interest you is the bleeding-edge wireless driver, plus all the related tools for network sniffing.

Re: My First N900
 

First things I did install:

ssh
screen
busybox-power
find
mc
tightvnc

I'm interested what your other necessities are.

Re: My First N900
 

I would say:
SomePlayer
fm-boost
FileBox
Password Safe
DropN900
Opera
FCamera
...

Re: My First N900
 

What will CSSU grant me? Does it focus primarily on the GUI and camera functionality? I'm really interested in additions that grant me the most access to the core of the system. What do I need to install to get the latest drivers? Is the only way to access root on the device really "rootssh"? Not that is bad or anything. I'm currently installing Easy Debian which will get me closer to running the type of device I'd like. I'm pretty busy with work at the moment so I haven't been able to read as much as I would like. I'm guessing that this weekend I will be able to find some time and fill in the blanks.

What do you use the power kernel for? What is its' greatest benefit to you?

Thank you for your constant help, Mike.

Abe

Addendum:

What is the story on my-maemo.org? Why the separate site? Why aren't many of the applications also hosted here? I'm guessing an approval process?

Re: My First N900
 

First word of advice: avoid any package with the word "patch" in it's title. They're crap and will screw your system.

CSSU is a community led effort to backport things that have happened up stream to this device. Updated drivers, improvements on some of the close-sourced bits (re-writes and blob wrappers), and the like. It's well worth the install.

Yes and no. You can always use ssh, or su, or setup the sudo file, like you would in a normal linux system. You can also use the suid-bit, etc. Maemo is a real and functioning Debian variant, with a few binary blobs, drivers, and nokia apps that lend to functionality as a phone. If you don't care about the phone parts, you can install debian directly on the device. Personally I wouldn't, but it's been done and is possible.

The primary benefit is stability and backported driver code. That said, most people install it to overclock. Each device is a little specific, as the chipsets used vary in quality. Sometimes the backported drivers have fixes for such things (slow wifi chips, sxgs that reset randomly, etc). I use it for that reason, and also do minor overclocking (500-900, where Nokia ships 250-600). It also tends to do better with battery life, for a variety of reasons.

You'll find that if you're polite, and ask for help (vs demanding it), and actually intelligently try to figure things out on your own with help given, you get very positive feedback here. But that's true of most forums. :)

This is my understanding of the history of this place. I'm sure someone who's been around longer can correct or clarify this:

Maemo.org is actually a community run site that started as a tablet forum a long while back (www.internettablettalk.com). There were several predecessors to the N900 (N7XX & N8xx, at least 3), all tablets, running a variant of Maemo. At some point Nokia/Maemo decided this forum was the best place for community chatter, started funding the site, and sucked the forums in under their domain. (forums.internettablettalk,com == talk.maemo.org) That said, there's only one "Nokia employee" here that does maintenance on the site, though several Nokia/Maemo employees have wandered in on occasion to say hi. Everything is pretty much monitored, managed, and moderated by volunteers, just like most non-affiliated forums.

To my knowledge, no other maemo site (even my-maemo.com) is affiliated with or funded by Nokia, outside of their own OVI store and the launch pages/forum they made on nokia.com when N900 was near launch.

There are also other maemo.org sites (garage.maemo.org, for example) that are physically run by other Nokia/Maemo sub-groups, but they all tie together under the same domain name. Things like the bug tracker, the vote manager, garages, etc, were setup by Nokia and are now maintained by said groups, directly funded by Nokia. There's also a governing council here that has some say on how the gears turn, and have direct contact with Nokia and the groups that run each leg of the system.

(Hey, old-timers... it this pretty close to right? I looked for a FAQ but found none. :) )

Re: My First N900
 

I'm also confused on this part... What do you mean about why aren't many apps hosted here? The majority of the apps for the N900 (thousands of them) are hosted in the extras/extras-testing/extras-devel repositories, which are directly linked to the garages here on maemo.org via the auto-builder.

To my knowledge the only other large repository for N900 apps would be Nokia's OVI store, where you have to pay (a minimal fee) to get access. That said, there are a few other repositories with N900 apps (Opera, Mozilla, and a few others), but those are mainly one-offs for the builds they support directly for this platform. Mainly because they have the resources already and don't want to bother learning other systems to push their app to another community.

Where else are you seeing a trove of N900 apps?

Re: My First N900
 

"What is the story on my-maemo.org? Why the separate site? Why aren't many of the applications also hosted here? I'm guessing an approval process? "

I thought the sentences were clear. "Why aren't many of the applications (hosted on aforementioned site, my-maemo.org) also hosted here (maemo.org)?

Hopefully that cleared it up.

Thank you for your comments/suggestions.

Abe

Re: My First N900
 

I'm here for much shorter time than You, but to my knowledge, above sentence is only true for talk.maemo.org, not maemo.rg as a whole. So, ITT was "transferred" to talk.maemo.org domain. Root of some funny things (like always non-ideal integration of maemo.org and talk.maemo.org accounts) is there ;)

/Estel

// Edit

Abe, you've also asked about kernel-power. It's effort to backport mainstream kernel things, that fits N900 need + own KP patches, tied specifically to N900. Definitely a must.

I've also forget to mention busybox-power - fortunately, others fixed that. It is backport of mainstream busybox version, which some specific patches - sometimes, those patches even affected mainstream busybox (wonderful work of iDont become included in mainstream busybox).

Generally, those things (backupmenu, KP, CSSU, busybox-power - mentioned in my and other people posts) are essential thing for every power-user. Treat is as even higher priority than OpenSSH ;)

Many people also suggested packages, that are far from being "essential" - like opera, music players etc. Personally, I would avoid suggesting such things to new member - everyone should install what she/he fancy.

BTW, do you know that Easy Debian is going to have new, pure Squeeze image soon, thanks to Sulu's work? :) Of course it's totally up to You, but I would wait for a while with customizing it, then apply personal patches/tweaking to Squeeze version

/Estel

Re: My First N900
 

I'm also new to the n900, my-maemo.com looks like a third-party website with news and tips and a collection of direkt links to debs from various sources.There are links to the maemo.org repository and to ubuntuone.com for example.

Seems some programs compiled for ubuntu-arm and/or debian-arm work well out of the box and this website lists them.

Re: My First N900
 

Close to 90% of them are.... my-maemo actually doesn't have a repository at all. Click one of the download links (through 4 pages of ads) and you'll find the install file points to the repository at maemo.org (or one or two other sites as mentioned above). It's like saying "Why don't you have all the apps here vs the ones Google has?"

Admittedly, my-maemo.com has a nice interface, with screen shots of lots of the apps in the repository. At least until a certain date anyway... Looks like whoever was doing it has a script still pulling new stuff, but hasn't updated screen shots and such in a while. (Thus the "no icon" on newer items.)

As for must-have apps, I concur with Estel on one of them: BackupMenu. Make a backup, tweak like crazy, then make another when you're stable. It can really save your butt if you make a mistake, even if you just want a backup of a system file. (It's just a big compressed tar file...)

As for the "requirements" here, there's no requirements for putting stuff in extra-devel. Other than learning how to do so. Promoting things to extra-testing and extra proper on the other hand, yes... it's a bit of a filter, but it forces things in those layers to be a bit more stable. There's chatter now of loosening regulations a bit, with the slowing pace of development and testers. But as a system, it did it's job well over the past decade.

And yes, Estel... I though I made it clear that the forum was originally from tablettalk. The rest is from Maemo itself (garages, wiki, etc) and the talk forum was pulled in later. That's part of why there's a disconnect between they systems. (Different logins, etc.) Thanks for clarifying it a bit more though, since I wasn't apparently concise enough to get that across? :)

Re: My First N900
 

I must really come off as computer illiterate.

Wait, what's a 'puter again?

I never actually followed a link. Had I, I would have easily discerned that the files were hosted elsewhere. Thanks for the help though.

Kind regards,

Abe