N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Hey,
I'm deciding between the N9 and an Android device, probably the SGS2. Development support is really important to me. For example, I really wanted to get the N900 if it had At&t 3G bands because of its strong development. I would prefer something unique (in the US) like the N9 compared to an Android device, which is why I'm even considering the N9. Do you guys think the N9 will have strong dev, similar to the N900? The SGS2 has this to some extent, but, again, I would like something more "out there."

A short list I made...

N9 Pros:

• amazing hardware design
• awesome OS
• semifunctional ICS port, although if I used this then I'm essentially getting a $400 Captivate
• NFC, kinda useless
• really unique
• powerful enough for Meego (as shown in a stress test I saw on YouTube, it could handle playing a video and updating 12 other apps before Angry Birds crashed it)
• pentaband 3G (huge because I'm probably going to keep it until late 2013, when I'll almost for sure switch on T-mobile)

N9 Cons:

• apps (a lack of them, although more are coming)
• media codecs (can't play most 720p and almost all 1080p files because of a graphics chip issue)
• 3G only up to a theoretical 14.4Mbps

I realize that "development" is a bit vague, but I guess I mean the creation of hardware-specific things like USB OTG, BT 4.0 (heard the N9 has the necessary hardware but not the software), and possibly other OSs like Tizen whenever that comes out.

Are there any N9 users here that switched from Android and that used to switch ROMs a lot on their Android devices? I would especially love to hear from that crowd.

Thanks for all the help,
vinay427

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

You would be better off with a Google Nexus S or Galaxy Nexus IMHO. Even a Motorola. Android works on the N9, but is far from usable for an everyday phone. If you want Android, get an Android phone. If you want Tizen, get a Tizen phone (if a Tizen phone ever should be produced). If you want Harmattan, get the N9.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

You never stated what kind of developer you are. That would help.

But will say, to be honest I'd go Android instead unless you're married to Qt.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

I realize now how vague my question was. So, here goes.

I guess I meant that I would prefer an N9 if everything (specs) were equal, but they're not, thanks to the SGS2.

By development, I meant that I'd like to see active development for the device. I don't normally develop, outside of small Bash scripts anyway. For example, I'm a huge ROM-addict on Android devices. Does this phone have that type of development for it?

In other words, I can live with way fewer apps, because I really do think I would like Harmattan. But, when it's up against the SGS2 and all its ROMs, etc., the choice becomes tougher. To simplify things, I guess what I'm asking is whether this phone will have similar mods and other development as with the N900. That's essentially what I'm looking for in a phone.

Thanks again,
vinay427

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Well, I got the N9 mainly for the looks since I knew it would never be able to compete with the N900 in terms of "development". I also think having many phones is more fun than having one phone. I probably don't make much sense, but I wouldn't get the N9 just because there is a remote theoretical possibility it will be able to run Tizen, or because it is able to run (boot is more correct) Android.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Application development is somewhat active, however ROM type of development is not happening at all on the N9. There's Inception, which grants you unbridled access to the machine. But no custom kernels outside of the open-mode kernel. No ROMS, no optimized OS versions - just tweaks and manipulations of the existing settings and the like.

If you're looking for CyanogenMod level activity, it's not on the N9. If you're an app developer that wishes to be active in a community that has a lot of need(s) in a lot of areas, that would mean the N9.

I'd look at the SGS2 if not newer then. That's my opinion. Because in the long run, you're not going to find a level of activity here that is easily found over at XDA and the like.

Besides Nemo being based on MeeGo/Maemo and the like, it's yet to be an easy install onto say the N9.

And that's coming from a person with a N9, that's owned a Samsung Captivate, Motorola Atrix, (currently) owns a Motorola Xoom, a Kindle Fire, a HP TouchPad and has owned a Nook Color as well.

Android has a lot more encouraged activity than Harmattan, hands down.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

I'm actually an owner of both devices, N9 and SGS2 so I'll see if my experiences can help you.

I originally owned the N900 for about a year and a half until eventually I had to send it off to repair and Nokia replaced it with an N8. Which I immediately sold and got a Galaxy S2, May 2011.

At first I hated the SGS2, I was just overly critical of it having lost my N900. I just wanted it to be an N900 really and never gave the phone a chance for the first few weeks. I even came close to returning it a few times.

However, I eventually stopped trying to make it fit into the N900's shoes and saw the phone for what it really was.

Now in terms of hardware, there is no comparison, there are no if's or but's, some may make excuses or act ignorant, but the SGS2's hardware components rival even recently released phones, despite the S2 being almost a year old. The N9 cannot compete in any way from a hardware point of view and neither can many other smarphones in the market today. The S2 experience is unique in every respect and currently unmatched. Even the Galaxy Nexus, which some consider better, others consider worse, is marginally different and it is also a Samsung.

Therefore if you do ever go for an Android, make sure it is a Samsung phone, they are light years ahead of the rest. The HTC One X may look good on paper and the new Sony Xperia range seems to be hitting the right spot but they are still far behind what Samsung has achieved and you will see this trend continue at least for now, with the upcoming announcement of the S3.

2013 may be entirely different, but for now Samsung maintains the Android crown.

That cover's hardware in which the N9 is destroyed in every respect by the S2.

However, the N9 has a premium design and feel, the unibody is amazing. I own the White N9 and to be honest it does not feel like plastic at all. I've only had it for a couple of weeks but despite the advantages of the S2 mentioned above, I am absolutely in love with this phone. It's design is so visually attractive and overshadows the cheap plasticy feel of the S2 in every way. The S2 looks not only cheap, but dirty and degraded, fat and blocky, typical and boring when you lay it on the table next to the N9. There is no imagination in the design of the S2, the screen is amazing but the design around it just seems like a cheap iPhone knock off. The back is hideous and looks like even worse quality material was used.

Now for the design of the N9, I think words are not needed and it is one of the most uniquely attractive and well designed phones available in the world today. It's a shame that other manufacturers are not taking a leaf out of Nokia's book. I'd much rather have this N9 based on its design alone, instead of seeing 37 different iPhone variations.

So in terms of visual appeal, the N9 wins hands down, again no if's or but's, in reality the S2 cannot compete with the N9's design. In fact this is the sole reason I bought the N9 and I am looking for an excuse to make it my main phone over the S2 and just get rid of the S2. However the software limitations are what hold me back.

Meego Harmattan is very attractive, I like the way its fully swipe without needing a hardware button and it has some unique functionality and features. However, it is also very basic, there are not a lot of customizable features and it is not a properly supported OS and has no future with Nokia, so it will not be attractive to the majority of developers. It's developer community will always be small and minute compared to Android.

Now this is not a dig at the N9 developers or their talents, I am not trying to offend anyone, but realistically speaking, there are equally talented developers available on Android and in a much larger number, so developement is rapid and is current.

You have to remember that the N9 is not the N900. The N900 was not completely open, but was much more open than the N9 is. But even on the N900 developement was really slow. Yes there were some fairly unique applications on there and it could do things back then that many phones can just recently do, but any real or signifcant changes in software, such as Open Media Player, took significant amounts of time, much more than they should, not due to lack of talent, but simply due to not enough developers willing to work on the phone. But again, that was the N900, not the N9.

The N9 being more closed than the N900 leads to an even difficult task of developing being done, that coupled with no support from Nokia makes it a dead platform in the eyes of 99% of developers. Regardless of talent, you need to have several developers working on an OS, Androids number is just far far greater and the talent exists there as well.

And the Galaxy S2 is the most developed Android phone available today, a trend that will be passed onto the S3. There is no other Android device out there that can compete with the amount of development being done on the S2.

Currently there are over 15 different fully stable and working ROMs available for the S2 each allowing various features, customizable options, tweaks to hardware settings to improve performances/battery, improvements/tweaks to software and much much more.

There is not even one custom ROM for the N9, and by the time a fully stable release comes out (if ever) it will be severely outdated. Again due to the lack of numbers of developers on the N9 compared to the S2.

Furthermore, you can download multiple different ROMs and take/combine tweaks, mods, apps, software etc.from them into one ROM to customize the features that you yourself want.

For example, recently I flashed the Batista Foxhound ROM, however I hate the AOSP Contacts and Messaging app, I think the standard ones are much better. I also like the other Samsung apps such as IM, Vlingo, Social Hub etc. which Foxhound ROM does not have. However, the Fox Hound ROM (as well as others) contains MIUI Music Player, Quickpanel Settings, DSP Manager, Beats Audio Enhancement and many others apps, mods and tweaks that I wanted on my S2.

So I simply downloaded the Foxhound ROM, extracted those apk's and mods. I then added them to the stock deodexed ICS DXLP7 ROM and flashed it throguh CWM. That way I got all of the tweaks, mods and custom options I wanted, yet also got to keep the stock settings I wanted. I never had to make a trade off.

Compare that with the CSSU for the N900 (which the N9 doesn't even have). Fair enough the CSSU brought a lot of new things to the N900, but at points it became a trade off for me where it replaced stock features that I wanted to keep. It wasn't always possible to have both, and in cases where it was, it was a complicated procedure.

With the S2 you do not ever have to make that choice.

Furthermore, all popular ROMs, mods, UI tweaks, apps and other software/hardware tweaks or improvements are updated regularly. They pass the alpha and beta stages very very soon and stable releases are then put out.

Those stable releases are then also further improved and updated on regular intervals, some within a couple of weeks at most, others within a few days. In fact there are even some that are updated/tweaked on a daily/nightly basis.

So not only do you have a lot more developement options available on the S2, they are current and updated when they are still relevant.

The N9 doesn't even have an equalizer for its stock media player, the only option is to download another media player, which in my case is no good as I love the N9's stock player. There is no equalizer that is currently under realistic developement to be released any time soon.

I also love the S2's stock player, it comes not only with a 5.1 setting, but a customizable manual equalizer with presets as well as sound enhancement options such as studio, theatre etc. built straight into the stock player.


However, I also have Voodoo Louder, Beats Audio Enhancement and DSP manager to further tweak my music and these all work with the stock player to further improve the sound I get. I do not need to replace my stock player at all. This is just one example of where if stock is not good enough you can tweak it further in many ways, you're not just forced to replace it. (You can if you wish though)

I organize my files into folders, such as my music, videos and audio. I do not create playlists as I find it repetitive and it is tedious organizing thousands of photos. So I prefer to put them in folders and have folder support straight out the box. The S2 fully supports this in its stock gallery, music player and video player. For me this is an essential requirement, I am not sure how others will feel.

The N900 was easily themeable and had many customizable widgets however had the same home screen framework even if you could change the layout of widgets and icons. The N9 has no widgets and no real themes.

The S2 not only allows you to them the phone entirely and easily, but allows you to modify its framework with custom launchers, each giving you different desktop experience to the other. You can actually have multiple launchers customized and active at the same time and switch between them if your current desktop gets boring. These launchers can be fully customized to look uniquely different to one another so it will not just rearranged the widgets/icons/layout but actually give it a whole different look.

There are also mods, such as quickpanel settings that allow you to take the standard 4 quick toggles in the status bar, and rearranged them, remove them and instead of 4, have 16 of them active.

Widgetlocker and other similar apps can allow you 100s of different customizable lockscreens, ICS, HTC Sense, iOS are just some of the popular examples.

One thing I loved (more than anything else) about the N900 is its ability to control my PS3 via Bluemaemo. The N9 currently has no app in existance or development that can do this.

The S2 can, using Blueputdroid. For me that is pretty much a compulsory requirement. I used the N900 to control my PS3 when watching movies/tv shows, I can do so with my S2.

Now again these are just examples that have stood out for me and suit my personal preferances, you may feel differently.

But in reality Android is a fully supported platform and attracts infinitely more developers than we have working on the N9. The S2 has the largest crowd of developers and developement being done on it far exceeds any other Android device.

The N9 cannot even compete with this. Due to lack of developers, developement on the N9 will be far far slower than that of the S2 to the point where you cannot even compare the time difference as acceptible. Many features/apps/tweaks/mods/etc that are being worked on for the N9 will never be fully realized and may never even pass beyond alpha or beta stages. In other cases, by the time a stable release is ready, the feature being developed will be outdated.

Yes there is a lot of development that has been done very well and has been completed for the N9, I am not trying to disregard it or saying there is none. But you are asking for a comparison, and in comparitive terms, there is none to be made. The S2's developement is far far greater, faster, more advanced, current, flexible, offers more features, etc. etc. etc.

Not only that, there are multiple developers working on multiple versions of a large number of things. Such as 15+ custom ROMS.

So not only do you have stable releases much faster, but you also have a large variety to choose from, you never just have that one choice. And as mentioned before, in many cases you can mix and match, combine tweaks and modes and apps from various ROMs and flash it to your S2.

If this flexibility ever makes it to the N9, it will not be anytime soon or even this year.

Having said that, I love my N9 to bits simply due to its design alone. I wish Nokia had supported it instead of switching to Windows and we could have had a whole different ball game on our hands.

Android is far too advanced for Meego to ever even come close let alone compete without proper support from its Manufacturer. Our community of developers cannot compete with the support that Google provides its OS. Thats the reality of it.

I would love to have Android ported on to the N9, and I don't mean an alpha build, I mean a stable release fully working and able to actually make phone calls, because no matter how good that port gets, without phone calls it is useless as the phone cannot do the basic thing it was designed for.

Realistically, by the time ICS (Android 4.0) reaches a stable release for the N9 (if ever), Android 5.0 (Jellybean) will already be released by Google.

So again, it will render all of the effort and hardwork outdated. It is as simple as that.

Therefore if you are truly after a phone with the greatest developement available, I would say not only an Android, but specifically a Samsung Galaxy S2 is what you need to go for, as it has the largest development on any Android device.
This combined with its amazing hardware, such as camera, CPU, GPU, display etc. make it the ideal phone for any situation.

Better yet wait for the S3 as once it is released, all of the S2 devs will move straight onto the S3, they are eagerly awaiting to do this and of course the hardware will be significantly better than the S2. The phone should be released in the next few months.

However, if you prefer Meego Harmattan OS over Android and can live with very slow and limited development, that will in many cases be outdated upon release and you're not to bothered by the mediocre hardware (when compared to the S2) of the N9, then by all means stick to it. Just remember, the N9 is no N900 and it will not have the same or as many mods/tweaks or features available for it as the N900 originally did.

I for one plan to use the N9 as my business phone. It is the phone I am proud to pull out of my pocket and ideally it is the phone I want to keep in my hand every day at all times, I look for excuses to take it out of its case and leave my S2 hidden, simply due to its sheer beauty and design.

However practically not only for development purposes, but even for day to day use, the S2 is much more suitable in every and all scenarios, personal use, business use, audio device, social networking etc. Even as a mini tablet due to its much larger screen real estate and supports HSPA+ for insanely fast data browsing and downloading when compared to standard 3G. It allows infinitely more customization, mods and tweaks and is a much more simpler phone to use.

Simply put, no matter how many reasons I look for, or excuses I make to try and use my N9 as much as possible, it is only because of its visual design. The bottom line is, I always come back to the S2 for my daily, personal, bussines and developement needs as it is just infinitely more suited to them!

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

^That sums it up nicely

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

sgs2 beat every aspect of n9 except for design and multitasking(OS)
ICS also damn good

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

so I am the only one who can't fathom android as an OS? I'd rather have Symbian

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

i second that. I've installed nitdroid on my n9 and use my bro's sgs2 but n9 just feels more polished. Yes the apps are missing but i don't use 90% of what i install on my n9 too so that doesn't worry me. The n9 is what suits my needs n is beautiful but always buy what suits you.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

get n9 for its design, swipe and nitroid(games, apps that are not available for harmattan)

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

he asking about development thing, and are you sure nitdroid on ur n9 will not brick and harm the system of meego itself later?

meego>android i agree
but from developing side android is always better(its has massive support)

better wait for tizen now

http://blog.gsmarena.com/tizen-and-b...est-benchmark/

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Must be one of the longest I have read :D But it "sums" it up. However, it is not Android as such that is the main thing here, it is Samsung. What has Android been without Samsung? The top of the line Galaxys has paved the way for every other Android phone (and left HTC long way back in the dust)

So, more simply put: Samsung is the new Nokia :D With Tizen coming this is the cold hard truth, not just a funny saying. But then again, there is Meltemi, ahh well.

Had to snip it due to this:

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

i dont think SGS2 beats N9 hardware in all ways. For me N9 has better camera (obviously), better screen (NOT talking about size), better radio coverage (key point 1), the battery lasts more than SGS2 with identical use (key point 2) and have some other features not present in the samsung phone.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

After meet MeeGo i can say, i won't comeback to Android anymore.
I think i'll only change it by Tizen or maybe maybe some Lumia.
Android is good but it's emulated Linux, thats the reason because it will never be fast.
You have to decide what you want., if you want to develop try MeeGo you have a lot to develop. In Android there's a lo of development of course, only if you have a great idea you can excel.
But it's your choice after all.
Anyway, your choice will be good. There's no wrong answer ;)

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

This addresses the development question somehow, right?

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

lol
armcortexA9 vs A8
dualcore vs singlecore
mali400mp vs sgx530
expandable storage vs built-in
replaceable battery

camera? sgs2 is better, i have both

only multitasking thing sgs2 is falling down and of course the OS itself, and the price(LOL)

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

For me the question is more to the tune: still get a 64GB N9 or wait for the Galaxy S3. Though nothing is officially confirmed for the S3 it's safe to assume it will be a noticeable upgrade from the S2, current rumours are summed here. The S2 is the most popular Android phone and the momentum will carry over to the S3 unless it's a complete dud.

For dev purposes arguments for S3 > N9 would be:

• more CPU (can't have enough for compiling etc., smooth multitasking, ablity to write/test code utilizing multiple cores)
• more screen estate, probably 1280x720 like the Nexus (if only to have a VNC session to your desktop eclipse at usable resolution, or do it locally using a parallel install of Ubuntu)
• very likely more support by the maker for any software issues (OS functionality, drivers, e.g. to code apps supporting NFC for payments)
• (may have replaceable battery = more coding time off the (power) grid)
• (may have a MicroSD slot which makes testing and categorizing many things a lot easier, at least for me)

Arguments N9 > S3:

• if you like to write apps with QT the N9 would be a native platform
• it's also becoming a usable native Linux solution (i.e. not castrated by Aegis)
• Maemo legacy: if you're feeling sentimental about the "last true Linux phone made by Nokia"; if you have code that worked on previous NITs it might be easy to port over to the N9

Yes, for me the last one is actually a valid point and one of the reasons I haven't completely written off the N9 yet, this might very well be the last high-end original Nokia phone, the last in a great line of devices that represented vision, innovation and ingenuity (hindered only by lousy marketing and even worse management). Lets keep an eye out for Symbian and Meltemi, but I don't have high hopes given Nokia's current priorities.

When the Nitdroid alpha was released I was almost tempted to get the N9, but my N900s cautioned me to not make rash decisions purely based on looks, so I'll heed their advice and wait to see what the S3 brings to the table ;).

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Then you should compare it to a device that is more than 16 months ago, the SGS:
SGS vs N9 (bold means superior)
4.0" vs 3.9"
800x480 vs 854x400
PenTile vs PenTile
SuperAMOLED vs AMOLED-ClearBlack (quite similar)
1GHz A8 vs 1GHz A8
512mb vs 1GB RAM
SGX540 vs SGX530
16GB vs 16GB/64GB
removable storage vs no option
1,500mAh vs 1,450mAh
removable battery vs fixed
radios vs radios (all equivalent)
No NFC vs NFC
FM radio vs FM radio + transmitter
Single vs Dual-[noise cancelling]-mic
Good 5MP camera vs Great 8MP camera
No LED vs Dual-LED
size vs size
118g vs 135g
Many Quality Apps vs Few Useless Ones*
Large Ongoing Development Community vs Huge potential but little development
+ extra points for SGS for having LED flashlight and qwerty-keyboard (EPIC 4G)

Final Verdict: the SGS with ICS is a better overall device than the N9 except in terms of styling (debatable) and parts quality (sensors/camera)...which is more unfair against the EPIC 4G.

Leave your N9 and go back to your N900, if you simply cannot then enjoy an ice cream sandwich with Samsung (SGSII/SGnex/SGNOTE).

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Just my 2 cents

It depends on what kind of development that OP is looking for. Custom ROM/kernel, tweaks and mods? Yes, it's development (or improvement? or modification? Personally I'm confused). Android has lots and lots and huge group for that.

NITDroid on N9, IcedRobot that run android apps on N9. I see these are definitely development for N9 as these can give me new user experience (of course to be fair I'm not sure if the latter one will come to reality or not). If I can enjoy the sweet from both of the OS then it's bingo. If not the original N9 with MeeGo already gives me great experience and I'm happy with that.

I totally agree with the points above. That's why Android needs more superior hardware to make it fast. I'm not saying Android is not good but it seems the dalvik or emulation limits itself.

I'm conservative for SGS with ICS better than N9 as I flashed the custom ICS ROM for my SGS but didn't find it really superior than N9. Well, it's not apple to apple comparison and it's all personal preference.

After all it's a choice of which device would give you the most fun when you have it.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

ts compare sgs2 vs N9, and both is 2011's phone, its fair, now we all know nokia doesnt has monster spec at their phone untill now, but they sell it too way high, how about upgrading RAM of n900? it is possible?

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Galaxy S III specs


- Codename: GT-I9300
- Size: 131,3 x 63,7 x 8 mm
- Weight 125 grams
- 4.8” Super Amoled HD (313 pixels a inch.) (resolution 720 x 1280)
- 12 megapixel camera with LED
- 1.3 megapixel front camera
- 1.5 GHZ quad-core processor.
- Bluetooth 4.0
- NFC
- Wi-Fi a/b/g/n
- MicroUSB 2.0
- HDMI
- Battery 1750 mAh
- 32GB intern

It will take years (literally) before others gets to this level throughout. The bad side: it runs Android, and dull and uninspiring design :D but I mean, the SGSIII really is something spec wise, and it's a real upgrade from SGSII, so it will sell like hot cakes and further assure Android dominance.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

^Dude that "leak" is a fake. Besides they've simply copied a post I did a while back and copied a mockup from another source. Just wait for the actual device before comparing it to an existing one.


I know what you mean by its fair comparing them from the same year, but Nokia is actually about 2 years behind Apple and Samsung in the smartphone race. The only hope they have are their current investments and the exclusive "Windows 8-ARM tablets" by Nokia and the exclusive "Windows Phone 8" by Nokia.

You cannot compare the N9's Maemo6 Harmattan OS (it isn't MeeGo!!!) to the likes of Android 4.0 or even 2.3, Google has a functioning/tolerable OS tied to a great ecosystem. Its just not fair for Nokia, which is why they actually jumped ship to Microsoft.

And the hardware specs only match those of 2010 (we are in 2012!!)

No.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

I think you are very mistaken, let's find out how.


1. Camera: The SGS2's camera is actually better than that of the N9's and it also allows full 8Mp quality shots in its full screen ratio, whereas the N9 offers only 7Mp shots in full screen ratio and 8Mp only in the 4:3 ratio.

SGS2's camera is also sharper in the pictures that it takes, especially when you compare full screen with full screen. Furthermore, if you take a picture on both devices and zoom in to the maximum, you will see the S2 retains sharpness whereas the N9 becomes grainy/noisey.

So in actual fact the SGS2 has a much better camera than the N9, but do not take my word for it, test if for yourself or see comparison videos of this widely available online.



2. Display Now I do not see how this is even a possible comparison, put an N9 next to an S2 and the display is so obviously superior in the S2. But let's not go for user perception, I will outline the facts once again.

SGS2 Super AMOLED Plus display, known to be the best display at its time of release, surpassed only by the Super AMOLED Plus HD display.

N9, even though launched many months after the S2, comes with an outdated OLED display.

The display in the S2 is again far far superior technology.

Now granted the N9 has a higher PPI (251) vs the S2 (218), but that is not because it has a better display, the display technology used in the S2 is much more superior to that of the N9, but being a bigger display (4.3) vs the N9 (3.9) it has a lower PPI as pixels are spread over a larger screen size. I have yet to see where this makes a significant difference, but yes the N9 does have better PPI, not a better display.


3. Radio: I am not sure what radios you are referring to that are better in the N9 than the S2. So far in most components the S2 radios are better and in other cases they are the same, there is not one radio in the N9 which is better than the S2, that I am aware of.

S2 has HSDPA+ (21.1 Mbps) vs the N9 HSDPA (14.4 Mbps).

S2 has better Bluetooth radio (3.0) vs the N9 (2.3).

The wifi radio in both are the same.

Cell reception on the S2 is crystal clear and loud enough in outside use. I have never had any issues with voicecalls or quality of these calls.

The N9 also has clear reception but the calls themselves are not loud enough and it becomes very difficult to hear outside.

I am not going to list each radio compononent, you can google this for yourself but the bottom line is, the radios in the S2 are actually better than the N9 and in other cases, the same, but there is not even one in the N9 that is better.


4. Battery: Now battery is a very subjective matter, it comes down to personal usage and personal perception. So I will try to again outline the facts and avoid personal interpretation as this varies from one user to the next.

Looking at the S2 battery (1650 mAh) vs the N9 (1450 mAh) this pretty much tells you that the S2 battery is better, as it has a much bigger capacity. Even if it was 1451 mAh, it would still be better. More is more, no arguements.

Now let's take a look at how these batteries are used.

Granted the N9 has a smaller display which means in theory it does not require as much power consumption for the display. However it also has a single core processor which means it is not as battery efficient and can drain battery power fast at times where the clock is near maxed, which is easily seen when the N9 hangs and lags in many situations.

The S2 has a much bigger display so you would think the N9 has the battery efficiency advantage in this case, however the Super AMOLED Plus displays are known for the power efficiency vs older displays even larger ones are much more efficient than smaller older displays. This technology has been commended all over and you can again find this out for yourself.

The S2 also has dual 1.2Ghz A9 processor which even today is one of the best chips released (soon enough we will see better ones but the Exynos 5250 A15 will reclaim the crown once more). And again, a proven fact is that a dual core faster processor is more efficient on power because the stress of the OS and tasks is spread across multiple, more efficient cores. This means the OS never hangs, or lags, the SGS2 itself has never lagged for me and the cores have never needed to reach maximum clock speed.

They are much more efficient with the battery and require much less power consumption than the CPU in the N9.

This coupled with the better/more efficient display means not only does the SGS2 have a better battery (200mAh extra makes a huge difference, check the N900 battery thread) but how this juice is used is much more power efficient than the N9 allowing less battery draining in the S2.

Currently on stock firmware, I can use my S2 for 4 hours of music playback per day (to and from work and at the gym), 1.5 to 2 hours of browsing per day (wifi or 3g), at least 30-45 minutes of voice calls per day and over 200 text messages per day being sent, after all of this I will only drain 50% of the battery by the end of the entire day (full 24 hours) including standby/idle time.

So, I can repeat this usage twice, for a full 2 days (48 hours) on one single charge before needing to charge again, at this time I will still have a few % left, or be right at the end of the battery charge, either way it lasts 48 hours at least before needing a fully charge done and that is perfect in my eyes.

The most I have got is 2 days and 12 hours with the above usage however, to be fair, the last 12 hours were mostly standby time, with maybe 20 mins of wifi/3g browsing and probably an hour of music playback.

I have attempted to test the same usage with the N9 to make an actual comparison and have so far been unsuccessful.


Conclusion: So the hardware superiority of the S2 over the N9 that I outlined in my orignal post, is an actual fact.

Furthermore, the OP asked what phone would be better suited from a developement point of view, as the OP stated that custom kernels, ROMs, Mods, Tweaks, UI enhancements etc. greatly appealed to them.

So in my post I was actually outlining most of the hardware advantages that the S2 has over the N9 which would be directly beneficial from a developement perspective.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

These specs are actually fake, along with all other SGS3 specs, designs, pictures etc.

Samsung have made it very clear that due to the worry of competition copying them, they will only announce the SGS3 when its release is imminnent.

I don't blame them for this, as when Apple was the market leader, it did the same with its iPhones, announce and then release them straight away. Until then 100s of fake specs and designs would circulate the internet to create drama, demand and discussion, some were probably secretly released by Apple themselves for promotional reasons.

I'm sure Samsung is doing the same as they now have the smartphone crown and who can blame them.

However I do think the specs you have outlined are not too far off from the actual release we will see, who knows the actual specs may be even better (or worse). Only time will tell

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Sorry, I am not trying to be disrespectful, but I honestly do not understand your logic here at all.

Why can you not compare Meego Harmattan with Android 4.0.

At the end of the day if N9 is the best that Nokia offer for Maemo/Meego users than thats that. It is perfectly fair to compare this to the latest versions of Android, iOS etc.

Especially when Android 4.0 and iOS 5 were both released last year around the months of October/November, similar time to the release of Meggo Harmattan.

To say it is not fair on Nokia is actually ridiculous, Nokia has been in the smartphone business a lot longer than Google has, so if google can release a competitive OS to contend with iOS than so can Nokia.

It is actually not fair on us the Nokia consumers that Nokia, despite its many opportunities and loyal customers, refuses to release a competitive device for the mass market.

And I really mean for the mass market, not for a small developer community. However, I do not see any reason why they would need to choose.

Again take the S2 as an example, appeals to the mass market and also appeals to the developer community, in fact has the largest developer community over any other Android Device or any other smartphone, period.

Nokia could do the same and release one mega device, or even two variations like they did with the N9/N950, one should have been focused on the mass market and the other for development. Which I guess was the intention but they never followed through.

The fact is, smartphone technology both in terms of hardware and software is so rapidly changing that the consumer demand for improvements seems insatiable. Any real smartphone manufacturer that desires to actually survive in this business needs to adapt to these changes and regularly release devices to suit them, even if they are not the best, they should at least be considered by the mass market as suitable alternatives.

Take Sony for example, they have recently acquired Ericcson and rebranded the phone to be a complete Sony device, to bring it up to the levels of other devices released by Sony. Now compare the new Sony Xperia S, P U and Ion with the Sony Ericcson Xperia range released last year. You will notice a huge difference in build quality, hardware and software.

Furthermore, they didn't just make the typical improvements, they added features that are unique to their own company. For example Playstation Certified Games, PS Store and PS Suite are huge additions to the new Sony Smartphones and the fact that all future Sony phones will contain these features is a welcome change. They have also incorporated the entire Sony Entertain Network and all of its features, including Music Unlimited and Video Unlimited to allow audio/video downloads and streams straight to your device. This will be a huge contender for the iTunes crown, and not just compete with smartphones.

Now I am not saying Sony will be the best smartphone manufacturer, only time will tell, but at least they have made significant announcements and actually realized those changes, instead of focusing just on heavily advertising their device (which they are also doing), they have actually improved it.

Now I don't want to go on about Sony, as this thread is not about them, but the point I am trying to make was Sony identified the flaws in their own company and took the necessary steps required to correct the problems, not make them worse. They have literally launched a full scale assault on Apple and Samsung and although they cannot yet compete realisitcally, if they follow through with this, they will be considered a serious contender soon enough.

I see no reason why Nokia could not do the same, I mean Nokia has some of the best desingers for its phones, it has some of the most unique and attractive devices, take the N9 for example. It also is known for its quality hardware. Why not stick with the trend and introduce the lastest hardware in the N9 or future phones. Why not improve the software to meet mass market demands as well as developer demands.

Samsung have done this, Sony are doing this, Nokia is still a giant, granted not as huge as before, but they have the resources to do this with ease.

Joining Windows/Microsoft was a huge mistake, but they have made that bed now, might as well sleep in it. If they have to be partnered with Windows thats fine, but at least force Windows to improve its OS that is aimed at the mass market. I mean any idiot can see how ugly and basic the home screen looks compared to iOS and Android, and how cluttered it gets when you start adding more apps to it.

This is a huge design flaw that I noticed over a year ago, how could they have missed it.

It's wrong to say that we are not being fair on Nokia by comparing the N9 or the Lumia 800 with SGS2. By rights, the SGS2 is the older device. And it is not our fault that Nokia chooses to release its later devices with outdated hardware or refuses to support Meego Harmattan which could have been the making of Nokia, instead goes with Windows and literally allows MS to kill off the N9, its own device.

This is Nokia not being fair on us, not the other way around.

Furthermore, as much as we all hate it, the iOS software and iPhone have been hugely successful from late 2007/early 2008 till early 2011 until Samsung pretty much stole the show.

Yes iOS is hugely restrictive, mostly closed source and cannot do even the simplest of things without the need of a jailbreak, yet despite all of that its a market leader for so many years.

Why? Because its consumers are blind? Yes maybe so, but not just that, mostly because Apple actually identified a mass market demand and then supplied it. So yes it is such a restrictive OS but it is also very polished, very attractive and appealing, it satisfied the mass market demand so people bought it despite its huge restrictions.

It is ignorant to say that Apple sucks because it has been a mass market success. I do agree that Apple lacks real vision which is why it is so restrictive in the first place. However if Apple had realized this serious design flaw and adapted to this change, they would not have the heat that Android is bringing to them. Yet they, like Nokia, release the same or similar devices with minor OS/hardware improvements year after year.

This is the sole reason that Android exists today, because of the flaws in Apple's OS. Google identified these flaws and released its answer. Do you think it is any coincidence that Google decide to release a fully open OS that they want multiple smartphone manufacturers to use? They knew what Apples flaws were, its restrictive and closed source OS and the fact that it is only available on one highend smartphone.

So google release a fully open system available on a variety of different smarphones of all prices ranges and multiple manufacturers, gaining them entry into every aspect of the smartphone market.

These flaws with Apple were present for many years, and if Google a smartphone novice could identify them and release a real solution, then I do not see why Nokia could not have done the same, having been in the game a lot longer.

The fact is Nokia dropped the ball and its best today is the N9, so it is perfectly fair to compare the best that Nokia has to offer to the SGS2 as it is the best Samsung has to offer.

And as mentioned, in fact the SGS2 is the older device, the N9 is months newer. It is no fault of ours that Nokia chose to put outdated hardware in the newer N9. That's a mistake of Nokia and they chose to do so.

For example, if a new Samsung 50" TV launched in 2012 had the same specs/display quality etc. as a Sony 50" TV launched in 2010, and Sony's 2012 TV launches destroyed Samsung TVs in every hardware respect is that Sony's fault or Samsung's?

Would you then say it is unfair on Samsung to compare Sony's 2012 TVs with Samsungs ones? At the end of the day, technology in 2012 can only be compared to technology in 2012, that is a fair comparison.

It is unfair on Sony if you compare it's 2010 TV with Samsungs 2012 ones, just as it is unfair on Samsung to compare its 2010 phone with Nokia's 2011 one.

Both Samsung and Nokia released their flagship phones in 2011, Samsung was months older but had better hardware in every way.

The N9/Lumia 800 were launched months later and already had outdated hardware, this is Nokia's fault and there is nothing unfair about the comparison. That's the whole point of competition, they should have launched a competitive device because people will compare and buy the better specs/hardware that is a huge factor. So is design of the device and design of the OS.

I mean its the N9's design that made me buy it a few weeks ago even though I clearly prefer the SGS2. Why? Because SGS2 dropped the ball with its ugly design, N9 is infinitely better so I bought it.

Nokia is making these mistakes with its hardware and OS. They should release a Maemo6 or new version of Meego Harmattan and aim it for the mass market as well as developers. Or get on MS's *** to significantly improve the Windows OS if that's is their paltform of choice. And they definitely need to release competitive hardware in their devices. Beautiful design alone will not save them.

Furthermore, with the success of Android which were clear, they could have jumped to that platform (I personally disagree with them jumping ship) but at least with Android they could have reached profitability. To choose Windows OS when Android was clearly available made no sense at all.

But that is another topic in its own right. The point of my post is to clarify that it is absolutlely fair for us to compare the hardware in the N9 with the hardware in the SGS2, just because the N9's 2011 hardware matches that of the SGS1 launched in 2010 doesn't mean we're being unfair to Nokia by comparing it to the SGS2, it means Nokia is being unfair on us, its loyal customers by releasing hardware in late 2011 that is already outdated by phones that were released earlier in that same year.

They clearly have the information available to see what competitors are doing, they should at least aim to do the same or better, not worse, they have the resources still to do this. They should identify their flaws and improve upon them, not hope that they will go unnoticed if they keep spending money on advertisements.

Bottom line: SGS2 from a developers point of view has a much larger developement community, in fact the largest of all smartphones. It has custom ROMs, kernels, Mods, Tweaks, UI enhancements, audio enhancements, plus many other developement features available today, which are current and updated in time to coincide with todays demands and technology and its superior hardware is a huge bonus for developers, it largely lifts the hardware limitations and issues presented to developers on the N9.


The SGS2 is not an outdated phone with outdated software and outdated hardware specs, desptie being the much older device compared to the N9. (6 months older in smartphone life is actually a very long time for the competition to release something that is hardware wise at least on the same level, if not better)


So I think we're being very fair in the actual comparisons of hardware that we have made. Ultimately it comes down to personal preferances and is a matter of choice which phone you should use. Go with the one that appeals to you, whether its design that you like or something else.

I will not say the SGS2 is a better smartphone than the N9 for end users, at that varies from user to user.

But I will say it is a much better device for development purposes based on the requirements that the OP has mentioned. These facts speak for themselves

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

...Well so far the Galaxy S line has been the premium choice for Android handsets and Samsung wants to keep it that way.
One area in particular is the SoC, where the original Hummingbird rang circles around the competition (HTC, Motorola, Apple) and same with the SGS2.

Now HTC has re-shuffled its strategy into more "premium" direction with its One series. Its introduced the Qualcomm S4 core, the first with the new Krait architecture. And the performance is appaudable. It runs rings around the old Exynos 4 and the Tegra3, and is almost as fast as a Cortex A15.

So now if Samsung's Exynos 5 is simply a 1.5GHz Quadcore A9 (like Tegra3) it will be much inferior to HTC in the performance compartment (which is Samsung's homeground).

So either Samsung is really going to beef up the A9 in many ways for the SGSIII otherwise it will have to be early (and the first) with the Eagle architecture (A15).

Frankly I wish for the A15, but its somewhat unlikely.
I think we might instead see a 2GHz Quadcore A9 with very speedy components (RAM, NAND, GPU etc) and a "fifth core" possibly based on the Cortex A7 clocked at 1GHz, which is the newly developed solution and touted as the most efficient processor in the world.

One thing is for sure; things are about to get very (competitive) interesting, very soon!

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

I agree entirely, which is why I feel Samsung will not release a quadcore A9 as the dualcore A15 is clearly the better choice in terms of performance even though it is unlikely/too early for it to have this chip. Maybe this is the one of the big reasons behind the delay in the SGS3's launch from last year?

So either the SGS3 will have a much better quadcore processor than a Quad A9, or it will have a dual core exynos 5250, again only time will tell. There are also other solutions available to improve upon the chip that HTC are releasing and I think Samsung will be aware of this.

I sincerely hope Samsung do not drop the ball on hardware, but considering what they have done so far with its Galaxy S range and the fact that they already know what this year's competition is doing, I am confident that Samsung's answer will be something that its consumers love.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

tizen with samsung will be awesomeeeeee, :D

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Are you aware of the difference between a SAMOLED and AMOLED? The only difference is the integration of touch panel in the screen. CBD is newer technology actually, with it's polarizing filter.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Yes I am aware and no it is not the only difference, but yes the main difference is the integration of the touch panel as you have outlined. However that same difference is what makes the display superior.

For example, the Super AMOLED Displays have only one touch sensitive layer as opposed to the several layers (with air in between) in the standard AMOLED displays.

This is a key difference, as it means Super AMOLED displays are much sharper than standard AMOLED displays and are also more brighter as well (up to 20% more), again these facts are verifiable.

That is the difference between AMOLED vs Super AMOLED, showing Super AMOLED with its one touch sensitive layer offers a better, brighter, sharper display than the standard AMOLED in the N9, so the one difference you have outlined actually makes the Super AMOLED a better display.

The SGS2 however has a Super AMOLED Plus Display. The Plus is the key point. This technology allows the Super AMOLED Plus Display to offer more sub pixels than the Super AMOLED displays, (around 50% more sub pixels). Which again directly improves the sharpness of the display itself.

The Super AMOLED Plus displays are also brighter, thinner and more power efficient (by around 18%) compared to Super AMOLED Displays.

So the N9, has the standard AMOLED Display, despite the Super AMOLED display already being introduced in the SGS1 (which is already a big enough improvement to be considered a better display).

After this, it was further improved and introduced as the Super AMOLED Plus display in the SGS2, which is an even bigger improvement than its predecessor in terms of sharpness, brightness and power efficiency.

Again proving the S2 has a better display.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Haters gonna hate, also fanboys

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Lol I was waiting for someone to post this. But remember, that comment can also be applied to your views as well of the SGS2.

I at least an owned the N900 and the N9 but also bothered to experiment with the iPhone 4 and SGS2 to compare what was available to me. Shows I was open minded enough to check out the competition instead of blindly believing my N900 is the greatest discovery of mankind. This is what helped me discover the SGS2 in the first place. And why choose one phone when I can have the best of both Meego Harmattan and Android, which is why I keep both the N9 and the S2.

I wasn't criticizing the N9 to be a bad phone in any way, if you read my whole post you would see how much I loved it and thats why I bought it even though I've had the SGS2 for almost a year and clearly prefer that device, couldn't resist buying the White N9 because of its seriously unique design.

What I was doing is answering the OPs question about which is better for developement and hardware does play a big part in it, so I pointed out how the SGS2 has much better hardware than the N9 as well as a bigger development community for it. Also that the S2 has full support not only from its much larger community but also from its manufacturer and OS whereas the N9 does not. Fact. Not my belief or opinion, pure fact.

This is all completely true, I just pointed out the facts which will still be the same even if I didn't own either of these devices or any smartphone. So I'm just saying what's real and being impartial about it.

It makes you the hater and the fanboy lol... for just blindly believing your device is superior in every way to all others just because you like it.

As I've already said, your preferances are your own and you should always chose the phone that suits you, I can see many reasons why people would choose the N9 over other devices and I can also see many reasons why people would not buy the N9. It all varies from user to user, so I wasn't criticizing the device itself.

So if you prefer the N9 that's fine and that's your choice. I prefer to own both. I wasn't criticizing either choices

I just stuck to facts that were relevant to the OP's questions and answered them with actual proof of what is relevant and true.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

@Prozac786

There are AMOLED screens brighter than SAMOLED. N9 is such a case. Screen brightness is a changing variable and was a pure marketing stunt for the new screen. Nokia fixed everything with a polarizing filter, sunlight visibility, contrast, 2.5D effect on a curved glass screen, etc. SAMOLED Plus has a full stripe and that is an improvement compared to pentile. However, older Nokia Amoled devices had full striped screens, so no new tech, AGAIN. You wanna see a brightness difference, compare Lumia 800 with the N9.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

You are not comparing technologies, but marketing gimmicks.

Both GS and N9 have polarizing filters, just Samsung does not advertise it.
Also Nokia also has striped RGB screens (E7) but they don't advertise it.

They chose pentile because they can't fit so many pixels in 3.9 inches with stripe (that's why SGS2 is .3 inches bigger)

Brightness is superior for the N9 (second brighter AMOLED phone after X7)

The N900 is about two times darker than the N9 and iPhone 4 but go out in direct sunlight and compare them. (spoiler, they have about the same visibility - the reason I will leave as a quiz)

There is much on screen technologies going on, and finally it boils down to a matter of preference because there is a spectrum of possible things and most manufacturers just pick the point they like. Top 2011 phones simply can't be compared in screen technology

http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php...0&d=1332090436

every one of them is great in one spec and low in others or about average everywhere.

(only the Lumia 800 is kind of low everywhere)

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

Hmmm,yup, provided the Samsung lasts as long - durability, esp in tropical weather above 28 degree C all year long. But then, if one is rich enough to buy a couple of high end phones,it wouldnt be big deal just to buy another one if it gets broken/spoilt.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

"New tech" is the word he used and likes, so I used it also ;)
Never really knew that GS2 has a polarizing filter, seems quite worse at sunlight, must be the brightness then. N900 is using one also.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

I wasn't just talking about brightness alone, I mentioned many points and you are just constantly picking out at one thing, the purpose of my hardware comparison was made clear several times and was in relation to the OP's request of what is a better development device, hardware plays a big part in development so I made those comparisons.

This is just going off topic now constantly going on about the display. I own both devices and I can clearly see that the S2's display is a lot better than the N9's, alot sharper and brighter too.

But if you feel differently fair enough. I'll leave it at that.

Re: N9 or SGS2 for someone who likes development?
 

stop debating, sgs2 is better, n9 has better design and best OS, thats it, :p