maemo.org - Talk
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   General (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7 (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84803)

HtheB 2012-06-10 15:16
Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Just saw this in the dutch tech news.

a developer is started to make an opensource ios version that runs on arm7.
http://crna.cc/magenta_source.html

This could be kinda impressive if you ask me.

From the website:
Quote:
Magenta is an implementation of Darwin/BSD on top of the Linux kernel. It is made
up of a number of kernel and userland components that work together. It is fully binary
compatible with iPhone OS 5.0 (as in, it uses the same binary format).

So far, it includes the following libraries:
* CoreFoundation
* libstdc++
* libobjc
* libc++abi
* libicucore
* libncurses

* As part of libSystem
* libmath
* libunwind
* libsystem_blocks
* libC

All libraries are compiled for vanilla Darwin, so nothing is compiled for Linux. The only
exception is libC (which resides inside the dynamic linker) as it serves as the main bridge
between the userland and the kernel.

The final goal is probably recreating the iPhone OS 1.0 stack. I think this is a pretty feasible
goal, considering the fact that there are so many open source libs that can be used to replace
the proprietary libs used by Apple. Just as an example:
* CoreGraphics -> Cairo
-> FreeType
-> libpng/jpg
* Celestial -> Various open source media decoding libs.
* UIKit -> Chamelleon

This is a very weird project. You may ask, why am I doing this? The answer is: no ****ing idea :)

This project is actually far more complicated than it sounds. *Far* more complicated.

Edit:
businesscat2000 from the Crackberry community, has already got iOS apps running on the Blackberry Playbook and Windows!
Amazing!
Before calling it fake or real, the Crackberry website also confirms it's real.

Check out the link for details and videos:
http://crackberry.com/developer-gets...lackberry-real

Quote:
The CPU isn't emulated on Playbook (though it is on Windows). It works very similarly to how WINE works to run Windows applications on Linux. The app binary is mapped into memory and imports are resolved to point to my own implementation of the various APIs needed. iOS actually uses a few open APIs already, which Playbook supports just as well (GL ES, and OpenAL). The bulk of the work has been in implementing all of the objective C classes that are required. The ARM code of the applications run as-is - the armv6/v7 support on PB/iDevices are pretty much identical, and the code is designed to run in USR mode. No SWIs, GPIO accesses or any of that kind of shenanigans.
Altough it's not confirmed if this has something to do with Project Magenta, I thought I'll just put this information too. To show that running iOS apps IS possible on a different OS!

marmistrz 2012-06-10 15:19
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
I think that the best would be a compatibility layer. Is it possible?

slaapliedje 2012-06-10 15:38
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
The real beauty of this? Due to the Oracle vs Google trial, it seems Apple won't be able to sue! The downside is that iOS sucks. But I could see why people would want access to the applications (wich is why an application compatibility layer would be better. Especially ported to Maemo / MeeGo / Tizen)

slaapliedje

HtheB 2012-06-10 15:42
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmistrz (Post 1220180)
I think that the best would be a compatibility layer. Is it possible?
Should be possible if you ask me...

Bernard 2012-06-10 15:52
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
If she would actually call it Opensource iOS, Apple would sue.

But this isn't anything what most people would call iOS as far as I understand it.
It uses a linux kernel to run some core libraries from Darwin that are also present in iOS in the hope to achieve compatibility with the core applications in iOS.

I think this may be used to run iOS (the actual copyrighted software from Apple) on non-apple hardware. Anybody else have a better explanation what this project is and could achieve?

taixzo 2012-06-10 16:27
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Interesting. A while ago I was working on a open-source clone of the iOS desktop. If we had that desktop running, and the libraries from this project, we might eventually see iOS running on the N9/N900!

Estel 2012-06-10 16:54
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
iOs on N900/N950 doesn't interested me - I'm not masochist - but compatibility layer for programs could be useful, the same way WebOS compatibility in Maemo was beneficial :)

/Estel

nkirk 2012-06-10 17:10
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
* Will it run iPhone OS apps?
* No, because I'm not aiming to have compatible high level frameworks. Just think
about how much work is required to have a 100% compatible implementation of UIKit
or Celestial. HOWEVER, the CoreOS part should be 100% (or 99%) compatible. Just not
the higher level OS. If you're just interested in this because it will "run iOS apps"
please go away.

quote from the read me

Dousan 2012-06-10 17:11
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Would be sweet with some kind of iDalvik on the N9 to run IOS apps.


Regards Dousan...

HtheB 2012-06-10 17:16
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkirk (Post 1220212)
* Will it run iPhone OS apps?
* No, because I'm not aiming to have compatible high level frameworks. Just think
about how much work is required to have a 100% compatible implementation of UIKit
or Celestial. HOWEVER, the CoreOS part should be 100% (or 99%) compatible. Just not
the higher level OS. If you're just interested in this because it will "run iOS apps"
please go away.

quote from the read me
If she doesn't do it, I'm pretty sure some other developer will do this.

www.rzr.online.fr 2012-06-10 17:31
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Supporting GNUstep on harmattan and try to port opensource apps would be an other way to loose time and energy :)

--
http://rzr.online.fr/q/objectivec

Estel 2012-06-10 17:33
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkirk (Post 1220212)
* Will it run iPhone OS apps?
* No, because I'm not aiming to have compatible high level frameworks. Just think
about how much work is required to have a 100% compatible implementation of UIKit
or Celestial. HOWEVER, the CoreOS part should be 100% (or 99%) compatible. Just not
the higher level OS. If you're just interested in this because it will "run iOS apps"
please go away.

quote from the read me
So, i must agree with author himself:

Quote:
This is a very weird project. You may ask, why am I doing this? The answer is: no ****ing idea
I also don't have idea about any use for something like that.

/Estel

taixzo 2012-06-10 17:37
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtheB (Post 1220215)
If she doesn't do it, I'm pretty sure some other developer will do this.
Or a group of them. I suppose it will be easier to get the simplest apps running first. There is an open-source implementation of Cocoa called GNUstep; it should be possible to use this to represent iOS cocoa in theory. Other things like OpenGLES might be more complicated.

HtheB 2012-06-10 17:51
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1220218)
I also don't have idea about any use for something like that.

/Estel
easy answer:
to encourage other developers to make it happen to run ios apps ;)

imo 2012-06-10 17:58
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
open source includes the definition of new ideas between running iOs on maemo is not new,i have seen it before somewhere here among one of thousand of posts.It can be taken positively atleast for the sake of apps ;p
though N900 is a complete iDont.
great post Htheb.taixzo might wanna dig it during his leisure time;p

Wreck 2012-06-10 18:35
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Is there any iOS application that anyone would actually need? I can't think of any app that is more usefull then the apps on the n900 and n9. (Except for certain games)
Half the apps on iOS are just web pages in apps. The only application that I can think of would be Shazam, but even that one is not necessary.


Other then that, good luck to the developer and it would still be fun to see it ported, even without cool possibility's.

taixzo 2012-06-10 18:45
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wreck (Post 1220232)
Is there any iOS application that anyone would actually need? I can't think of any app that is more usefull then the apps on the n900 and n9. (Except for certain games)
Half the apps on iOS are just web pages in apps. The only application that I can think of would be Shazam, but even that one is not necessary.


Other then that, good luck to the developer and it would still be fun to see it ported, even without cool possibility's.
Umm... maybe GarageBand? (although afaik it is only available for iPad, but still would like to see it running on n9[00])

don_falcone 2012-06-10 19:07
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wreck (Post 1220232)
Is there any iOS application that anyone would actually need? I can't think of any app that is more usefull then the apps on the n900 and n9. (Except for certain games)
Half the apps on iOS are just web pages in apps. The only application that I can think of would be Shazam, but even that one is not necessary.


Other then that, good luck to the developer and it would still be fun to see it ported, even without cool possibility's.
The music, especially Korg, stuff.

Hurrian 2012-06-10 22:43
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
The frameworks are missing.

This'll probably run text-mode programs, but that's about it.

It is cool though, and maybe someone might bother to re-implement the frameworks based on their known functions.

(Interestingly, the diff is for 2.6.37, similar to the Nemo kernel. Anyone want to merge it in?)

taixzo 2012-06-10 22:57
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurrian (Post 1220337)
The frameworks are missing.

This'll probably run text-mode programs, but that's about it.

It is cool though, and maybe someone might bother to re-implement the frameworks based on their known functions.

(Interestingly, the diff is for 2.6.37, similar to the Nemo kernel. Anyone want to merge it in?)
What is the least number of frameworks an app needs to run? Is it only Cocoa Touch? Some of those frameworks would be easier to re-implement than others.

don_falcone 2012-06-11 00:08
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taixzo (Post 1220219)
There is an open-source implementation of Cocoa called GNUstep; it should be possible to use this to represent iOS cocoa in theory.
iOS is using Cocoa Touch, which itself is only based on Cocoa.

Hurrian 2012-06-11 00:44
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taixzo (Post 1220341)
What is the least number of frameworks an app needs to run? Is it only Cocoa Touch? Some of those frameworks would be easier to re-implement than others.
Cocoa Touch is made up of at least UIKit and FoundationKit

And then you'd have other things an app may need to run.

tl;dr this is going to take a while.

tebsu 2012-06-11 08:11
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
better just name it "magenta". project magenta is something else :P http://www.projectmagenta.com/

et3rnal 2012-06-12 17:29
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
on bb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcQ_7ALmflE

on win
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oILkjWT1HFg

HtheB 2012-06-14 08:55
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by et3rnal (Post 1221008)
I've read some more on the internet. Seems legit...

If this is real, then I'm sure this will also run on our devices!

Edit: Crackberry website also confirms that it's real....
http://crackberry.com/developer-gets...lackberry-real

Kinda excited if the N9/N950 or even our beloved N900 will ever have this...

HtheB 2012-06-14 13:31
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Updated first post about running iOS apps on the Blackberry playbook and Windows.
Amazing job!
If they can do it, I'm sure WE can do it as well!

don_falcone 2012-06-14 14:15
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
...without any more options coming from almost upside-bellied Nokia, Playbook OS / BB10 + maybe such an iOS layer may be (the?) one of our half-assed "options". :(

marmistrz 2012-06-14 14:33
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtheB (Post 1221781)
Updated first post about running iOS apps on the Blackberry playbook and Windows.
Amazing job!
If they can do it, I'm sure WE can do it as well!
If we wanna do it, we first have to contatct the developer, businesscat2000

HtheB 2012-06-14 22:11
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmistrz (Post 1221827)
If we wanna do it, we first have to contatct the developer, businesscat2000
I've send him a PM, I really hope he will reply back :)
waiting patiently!

HtheB 2012-06-20 15:06
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Got a reply back from businesscat2000:

Quote:
Sorry for the late reply - I just (didn't) and don't really know what to say. I wish I could release the code - I'm familiar with N900, and it would run perfectly. It only has dependencies on pthreads, ogl 1.1/oal, libc and the ability to mmap the low address range 0x1000->~0x300000.

marmistrz 2012-06-20 15:43
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtheB (Post 1224682)
Got a reply back from businesscat2000:
So... There's no problem for it...
If I get a makefile for it I can try compiling it.

ivgalvez 2012-06-20 15:47
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
To me the response seems to be that he's not allowed to release the source code.

marmistrz 2012-06-20 15:55
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivgalvez (Post 1224690)
To me the response seems to be that he's not allowed to release the source code.
Sources of magenta are available http://crna.cc/magenta_source.html. The only problem is that they have .vcproj: and I don't have MSVC and don't know any way of converting .vcproj to makefile. And if he coded some extra stuff to load the libraries, there shouldn't be problem (he just provides patches to the magenta sources)

Or is he using other sources?

HtheB 2012-06-20 16:07
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmistrz (Post 1224696)
Sources of magenta are available http://crna.cc/magenta_source.html. The only problem is that they have .vcproj: and I don't have MSVC and don't know any way of converting .vcproj to makefile. And if he coded some extra stuff to load the libraries, there shouldn't be problem (he just provides patches to the magenta sources)

Or is he using other sources?
I'm sure he uses some other sources :)

bandora 2012-06-20 16:15
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
I wonder if it's possible to pursuade him to join Maemo by setting up donations... Or idk some other way to have him port it to the N9..

taixzo 2012-06-20 16:45
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Perhaps we can persuade him to get it in the Ovi Store? That way no sources are needed.

www.rzr.online.fr 2012-06-20 16:49
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
converting to cmake file should worth the effort, which package did you try to build 1st ?

HtheB 2012-06-20 17:42
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandora (Post 1224702)
I wonder if it's possible to pursuade him to join Maemo by setting up donations... Or idk some other way to have him port it to the N9..
Donations sounds very good if you ask me, just like they did with the NITDroid on the N9 :)

I hope he will accept donations

ivgalvez 2012-06-20 18:24
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.rzr.online.fr (Post 1224715)
converting to cmake file should worth the effort, which package did you try to build 1st ?
Yes, you can use this tool to convert it to CMake.

[DarkGUNMAN] 2012-07-13 07:48
Re: Project Magenta - opensource iOS on ARMv7
 
@marmistrz - I know you have had your hands full with Meecolay, but did you get a chance to convert the file to cmake and attempt to compile this open iOS?


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:00.
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

vBulletin® Version 3.8.8