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-   -   Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85061)

Wonko 2012-06-23 09:01
Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Alright, I think we all are/were more or less aware that sooner or later the day will come at which we need to migrate to a community-driven platform. Most probably the reason for this is that we are running out of funding like also mentioned, e.g., in the following thread:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84933

Please, I do not intend to create a similar discussion as in the above thread. Furthermore, I don't want to interfer with qgil and kate who are for sure doing their best for our community.

The reason why I create this thread is that I think we should be prepared for the situation in which we finally need to take care of our own. This thread is not intended to discuss the reasons, motivations, or enforce the migration but to gather important information. This will hopefully help us to be prepared once the "big day" comes.

I think the most logical first step to prepare for an eventually community-driven infrastructure is to come up with an inventory of what we already have and what issues, legal, infrastructure, steering, etc. will be affected. This is the intent of this thread: to gather information about things affecting a community-driven effort.

For now I found the following topics to be relevant:
  • Legal Issues (Names, Trademarks, Domain Names, etc.)
  • Infrastructure (Web Site, Forum, Wiki, Autobuilder + MeeGo OBS, Mailinglists, Garage, etc.)
  • Steering (How do we want to organize ourselves? However, please keep this thread on technical details and discuss political issues in a distinct thread.)

If you like we can create a Wiki page in which we document our findings.

What do you think about this? If you agree we should prepare please contribute what you think are important parts of *.maemo.org.

With respect to infrastructure: I propose that when we add an entry here we try to gather as much information as possible. We should also try to come up with freely available alternatives.
E.g., for garage.maemo.org free alternatives could be github or gitorious.


I'll start the list. Please excuse the currently very basic information. It would be great if we could strive for adding to this information as much as possible. So, I add the following:

Legal Issues
- What is the state about the name "Maemo"?
- Who owns "maemo.org"? What is needed for the community to run maemo.org? What are possible legal issues? What are the costs?

Infrastructure
- talk.maemo.org: alternative?
- wiki.maemo.org: alternative?
- garage.maemo.org: alternative: github, gitorious
- main web site at maemo.org: alternative?
- autobuilder?
- OBS at MeeGo?
- Repositories?

marmistrz 2012-06-23 09:26
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonko (Post 1226147)
Alright, I think we all are/were more or less aware that sooner or later the day will come at which we need to migrate to a community-driven platform. Most probably the reason for this is that we are running out of funding like also mentioned, e.g., in the following thread:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84933

Please, I do not intend to create a similar discussion as in the above thread. Furthermore, I don't want to interfer with qgil and kate who are for sure doing their best for our community.

The reason why I create this thread is that I think we should be prepared for the situation in which we finally need to take care of our own. This thread is not intended to discuss the reasons, motivations, or enforce the migration but to gather important information. This will hopefully help us to be prepared once the "big day" comes.

I think the most logical first step to prepare for an eventually community-driven infrastructure is to come up with an inventory of what we already have and what issues, legal, infrastructure, steering, etc. will be affected. This is the intent of this thread: to gather information about things affecting a community-driven effort.

For now I found the following topics to be relevant:
  • Legal Issues (Names, Trademarks, Domain Names, etc.)
  • Infrastructure (Web Site, Forum, Wiki, Autobuilder + MeeGo OBS, Mailinglists, Garage, etc.)
  • Steering (How do we want to organize ourselves? However, please keep this thread on technical details and discuss political issues in a distinct thread.)

If you like we can create a Wiki page in which we document our findings.

What do you think about this? If you agree we should prepare please contribute what you think are important parts of *.maemo.org.

With respect to infrastructure: I propose that when we add an entry here we try to gather as much information as possible. We should also try to come up with freely available alternatives.
E.g., for garage.maemo.org free alternatives could be github or gitorious.


I'll start the list. Please excuse the currently very basic information. It would be great if we could strive for adding to this information as much as possible. So, I add the following:

Legal Issues
- What is the state about the name "Maemo"?
- Who owns "maemo.org"? What is needed for the community to run maemo.org? What are possible legal issues? What are the costs?

Infrastructure
- talk.maemo.org: alternative?
- wiki.maemo.org: alternative?
- garage.maemo.org: alternative: github, gitorious
- main web site at maemo.org: alternative?
- autobuilder?
- OBS at MeeGo?
- Repositories?
OBS should be integrated with MeeGo. Then we cut the costs.
garage.maemo.org: github/gitorious is a good thing.
Council should talk with Nokia about the patents and the SSU packages! It's a must-be. If nokia shuts the SSU repo down, no one will be able to install the SDK. So it's a high priority task.
wiki.maemo.org: there is wikia.com, maybe this would work. But I've not very much experience.
What's the difference between autobuilder and obs?
for repos: we need to reduce the amount of GB in the repos: remove from -devel the packages, that are already in -testing or extras.

imo 2012-06-23 09:29
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
it looks quite hard though .
between till we dont get the alarming warning,we shouldnt be proceeding too eagerly for such thing ,though yes alternatives should be kept ready in case of jiffy situation .

ivgalvez 2012-06-23 10:51
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Wonko,

You are considering good points here. This is already an ongoing issue please check logs from last Council meeting (last one, and previous one) and feel free to participate (every Friday 18:00 UTC at #maemo-meeting).

This will also be deeply discussed by mailing list, if you want to involve, please subscribe. We will need all the help we can gather.

Wonko 2012-06-23 14:15
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmistrz (Post 1226152)
OBS should be integrated with MeeGo. Then we cut the costs.
....
Afaik, MeeGo will run out of funding as well. So I think we should also consider OBS.
For now this is just the creation of an inventory anyhow. I think we can discuss priorities and costs later on. At first, we need an overview of what we actually rely on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imo (Post 1226153)
...
between till we dont get the alarming warning,we shouldnt be proceeding too eagerly for such thing
...
Yes, the main intent right now is to just create an inventory of what we have so we can see what we need to consider. Maybe we find nice alternatives like in the case of garage.maemo.org. This would ease the work quite a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivgalvez (Post 1226175)
Wonko,

You are considering good points here. This is already an ongoing issue please check logs from last Council meeting (last one, and previous one) and feel free to participate (every Friday 18:00 UTC at #maemo-meeting).

This will also be deeply discussed by mailing list, if you want to involve, please subscribe. We will need all the help we can gather.
Thans a lot for the information. I will try to attend the meetings. However, I am very much scarce of time right now and can't promise anything.




In the meantime I created a first stub of a Wiki page. This is a work-in-progress and is intended to be filled and added to step by step. Feel free to add information as well. :)
http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_C...Infrastructure

misterc 2012-06-23 14:36
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivgalvez (Post 1226175)
Wonko,

You are considering good points here. This is already an ongoing issue please check logs from last Council meeting (last one, and previous one) and feel free to participate (every Friday 18:00 UTC at #maemo-meeting).

This will also be deeply discussed by mailing list, if you want to involve, please subscribe. We will need all the help we can gather.
Ivan,

where can one subscribe to that mailing list?

considering the situation & your position, i think you should get into the habit of providing links & all over & over again...
maybe add them to your signature, for the sake of it?

www.rzr.online.fr 2012-06-23 14:44
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
for OBS I guess will it be fine to cooperate with tizen project which is sponsored by intel samsung and others :-)

check :

https://bugs.tizen.org/jira/browse/T...s:all-tabpanel

SD69 2012-06-23 14:48
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonko (Post 1226147)

For now I found the following topics to be relevant:
  • Legal Issues (Names, Trademarks, Domain Names, etc.)
  • Infrastructure (Web Site, Forum, Wiki, Autobuilder + MeeGo OBS, Mailinglists, Garage, etc.)
  • Steering (How do we want to organize ourselves? However, please keep this thread on technical details and discuss political issues in a distinct thread.)
We already started to discuss these in Council but didn't reach a conclusion because some members were absent. Community members are sought to volunteer to join a group based on their expertise. Unlike the situation where Nokia/Nemein provided support, we will need community members with a variety of skills.

Some (personal) comments on your list:

Legal - includes IPR and OSS licensing issues. Also includes creation of non-profit entity. May include governance. I have volunteered to put together this group.

Infrastructure - we called this Migration. We may need to streamline and trim down the infrastructure, and careful consideration must go into that.

Steering - I don't understand. Do you mean something like a TSG?

We also had an additional focus - Finances. We need money to start this and then an estimated budget to guide activities. Will people trust a community member to collect donations to start the community project and how should that be done - Paypal, bank account, etc? Also, request sponsorship from Nokia and other external entities, contracts with hosting company and other IT vendors. NielDk has offered to lead this focus.

I also think we need to decide on a mission statement, etc. If we ask people to donate, then they will want to know what they are supporting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonko (Post 1226147)
I'll start the list. Please excuse the currently very basic information. It would be great if we could strive for adding to this information as much as possible. So, I add the following:

Legal Issues
- What is the state about the name "Maemo"?
- Who owns "maemo.org"? What is needed for the community to run maemo.org? What are possible legal issues? What are the costs?
Maemo is currently a registered trademark of Nokia and the domain name is owned by Nokia. Our previous request to transfer the domain name was denied - I don't expect that to change. We have "maemocommunity.org" as a backup.

What is needed to run the community website is a non-profit and hosting, which depends greatly on what is migrated. Hosting something is relatively easy and inexpensive, but it gets complicated as we start adding some of the functionality. I would estimate the start-up costs for the most basic landing page to be something on the order of 600-800 USD.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonko (Post 1226147)
Infrastructure
- talk.maemo.org: alternative?
- wiki.maemo.org: alternative?
- garage.maemo.org: alternative: github, gitorious
- main web site at maemo.org: alternative?
- autobuilder?
- OBS at MeeGo?
- Repositories?
It sounds like we will need a vbulletin license to migrate the forum content. If not, we can start all over again with a new forum.
Wikis are easy (I think).
I agree with not using garage any more.
we can use maemocommunity.org or some other alternative
I suggest a community OBS shared with Mer/Nemo (MeeGo OBS is going away soon)

misterc 2012-06-23 15:21
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1226264)
[...]

It sounds like we will need a vbulletin license to migrate the forum content. If not, we can start all over again with a new forum.
[...]
are you in contact with Reggie?
if the funding for Maemo.org stops, if is more then likely that the funding for TMO will stop as well, no?

EDIT: actually, TMO is a service NOKIA is paying for; one would assume they give Reggie a little more time (or even have contractual terms?) before stopping the funding...
all the more reason to contact Reggie, i'd say...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1226264)
(MeeGo OBS is going away soon)
is that official?

SD69 2012-06-23 15:42
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1226278)
are you in contact with Reggie?
if the funding for Maemo.org stops, if is more then likely that the funding for TMO will stop as well, no?

EDIT: actually, TMO is a service NOKIA is paying for; one would assume they give Reggie a little more time (or even have contractual terms?) before stopping the funding...
all the more reason to contact Reggie, i'd say...



is that official?
Yes, the funding for TMO forum will likely stop at the same time as the rest of maemo.org. Reggie has already addressed the issue:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=32

I assume because Reggie said "backup" that he is not going to transfer the license, just give us the means to transfer the data to a new vbulletin instance.

marmistrz 2012-06-23 16:41
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1226264)
We already started to discuss these in Council but didn't reach a conclusion because some members were absent. Community members are sought to volunteer to join a group based on their expertise. Unlike the situation where Nokia/Nemein provided support, we will need community members with a variety of skills.

Some (personal) comments on your list:

Legal - includes IPR and OSS licensing issues. Also includes creation of non-profit entity. May include governance. I have volunteered to put together this group.

Infrastructure - we called this Migration. We may need to streamline and trim down the infrastructure, and careful consideration must go into that.

Steering - I don't understand. Do you mean something like a TSG?

We also had an additional focus - Finances. We need money to start this and then an estimated budget to guide activities. Will people trust a community member to collect donations to start the community project and how should that be done - Paypal, bank account, etc? Also, request sponsorship from Nokia and other external entities, contracts with hosting company and other IT vendors. NielDk has offered to lead this focus.

I also think we need to decide on a mission statement, etc. If we ask people to donate, then they will want to know what they are supporting.

Maemo is currently a registered trademark of Nokia and the domain name is owned by Nokia. Our previous request to transfer the domain name was denied - I don't expect that to change. We have "maemocommunity.org" as a backup.

What is needed to run the community website is a non-profit and hosting, which depends greatly on what is migrated. Hosting something is relatively easy and inexpensive, but it gets complicated as we start adding some of the functionality. I would estimate the start-up costs for the most basic landing page to be something on the order of 600-800 USD.




It sounds like we will need a vbulletin license to migrate the forum content. If not, we can start all over again with a new forum.
Wikis are easy (I think).
I agree with not using garage any more.
we can use maemocommunity.org or some other alternative
I suggest a community OBS shared with Mer/Nemo (MeeGo OBS is going away soon)
Maybe a shared OBS Mer/Nemo/Fremantle/Harmattan? This would benefit much more (Harmattan apps)

SD69 2012-06-23 17:06
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmistrz (Post 1226327)
Maybe a shared OBS Mer/Nemo/Fremantle/Harmattan? This would benefit much more (Harmattan apps)
That is what we are trying to achieve. Volunteers needed to help.

ivgalvez 2012-06-23 17:33
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1226259)
Ivan,

where can one subscribe to that mailing list?

considering the situation & your position, i think you should get into the habit of providing links & all over & over again...
maybe add them to your signature, for the sake of it?
Well, mailing lists have been there since the very beginning such as IRC so I didn't consider the link was needed. Anyway, here it is.

misterc 2012-06-23 18:32
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivgalvez (Post 1226361)
Well, mailing lists have been there since the very beginning such as IRC so I didn't consider the link was needed. Anyway, here it is.
Maemo Announcements?
Maemo Community?
don't you think that part of your duty, as member of the Council, would also be to facilitate access to that information?
:(

misterc 2012-06-23 18:37
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1226292)
Yes, the funding for TMO forum will likely stop at the same time as the rest of maemo.org. Reggie has already addressed the issue:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=32

I assume because Reggie said "backup" that he is not going to transfer the license, just give us the means to transfer the data to a new vbulletin instance.
Forum is in fact redirecting directly to TMO...
any chance the community could pay what NOKIA is paying now?

Bernard 2012-06-23 18:40
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonko (Post 1226147)

Infrastructure
...
- garage.maemo.org: alternative: github, gitorious
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1226264)
...
I agree with not using garage any more.
...
But do those alternatives offer the same functions as garage.maemo.org?

On the Garage you can also find a lot of websites with information.
like:
http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/
http://pluthon.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/

And what about non-maemo related projects on garage?
i don't know many, but for example:
https://garage.maemo.org/projects/pys60/

It would be nice to keep the current state of Garage accessible, just as a reference.

Also the maemo 5 SDK requires files from:
http://scratchbox.org/
That is also a Nokia sponsored project.

Wonko 2012-06-23 19:20
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Thanks SD69 for the input. I updated the Wiki with the information you provided. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1226264)
...
Steering - I don't understand. Do you mean something like a TSG?
...
I think I meant something like "steering commite". Essentially, something like coordination, government, or so. Please update, change the Wiki if the term is unclear.


@rzr: I saw that you had been added as contact person for the MeeGo OBS. Forgive my ignorance but are you officially responsible for the OBS or just interested in OBS from a user perspective?
The contact person column was intended to add contact info where to reach the people that are currently in charge of running the respective service. However, the layout and content of the table was also just a first quick shot.
In order to keep a good overview of the table I propose that we add more information in separate sub-sections. For talk.maemo.org, e.g., I added some more information that, I think, wouldn't have fit into the table.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard (Post 1226392)
...
Also the maemo 5 SDK requires files from:
http://scratchbox.org/
That is also a Nokia sponsored project.
I added scratchbox. The Harmattan SDK also builds on top of scratchbox, by the way. ;)


I also added the voting infrastructure that is used for voting the council or during the coding competition to the summary.

ivgalvez 2012-06-23 20:07
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1226389)
Maemo Announcements?
Maemo Community?
don't you think that part of your duty, as member of the Council, would also be to facilitate access to that information?
:(
I'm sorry I think I don't really understand what you mean (language barrier maybe?).

You can subscribe to the community mailing list here. If you read the Wiki page I previously linked, you'll see the rest of mailing lists in case you are interested in subscribing to any other one.

Entry point to communication channels of the community are perfectly defined in the Community page which is the third link under the Maemo.org banner on top of this website.

Please let me know if you have any other questions about communication channels via PM so we won't pollute this thread any more.

Hurrian 2012-06-23 20:59
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
- talk.maemo.org: alternative?
- wiki.maemo.org: alternative?
- garage.maemo.org: alternative: github, gitorious
- main web site at maemo.org: alternative?
- autobuilder?
- OBS at MeeGo?
- Repositories?
First off, we'll need to host TMO with our own money, unless you want to go with crappy free hosts or gasp, be incorporated into a XDA subforum.
(Also, if we needed to cut costs, we could switch away from vBulletin to something free, like phpBB.)
Same with the front page, althought I guess with the right forum layout, we can discard that too.
As for a WMO alternative, I guess if we really needed to start shaving costs we could put the articles up on Wikipedia after some heavy cleanup.
And for the autobuilder, if the MeeGo OBS really is getting shut down, I guess we have no other choice than to rent a VPS and run our own instance of OBS there.
(this would probably host the repos too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard (Post 1226392)
But do those alternatives offer the same functions as garage.maemo.org?

On the Garage you can also find a lot of websites with information.
like:
http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/
http://pluthon.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/
IIRC, github does free hosting of simple webpages.

SD69 2012-06-24 15:25
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1226391)
any chance the community could pay what NOKIA is paying now?
No.

I don't know what the exact amount is, but everytime I've raised the issue with Reggie, supplementing with advertising etc., he hasn't been interested. It's a large amount - more than the community could, or probably should, pay.

www.rzr.online.fr 2012-06-24 16:34
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
dont think wikipedia is the place to migrate our wiki

why not contacting elinux pple , there are some data linked at

http://elinux.org/Maemo

http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page

both are using mediawiki . so it could be merged isnt it ?

btw how big is the wiki ?

for OBS let me suggest to open an other thread , because that one is not easy to setup ...

Estel 2012-06-24 16:45
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
I'm wondering, how "transferable" forum content (database) is between crappy vBulletin and something Open Source'd, like phpBB.

sure, it isn't most important think - OBS is much more - but it would be great to retain TMO functionality, run on better and cheaper platform.

/Estel

lma 2012-06-24 18:40
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Re: wiki - hosting mediawiki on any hardware capable of handling repositories, OBS etc isn't a big issue, let's just get a dump of the current one (plus custom maemo.org styling etc) and import it.

SD69 2012-06-24 19:59
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard (Post 1226392)
But do those alternatives offer the same functions as garage.maemo.org?

On the Garage you can also find a lot of websites with information.
like:
http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/
http://pluthon.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/

And what about non-maemo related projects on garage?
i don't know many, but for example:
https://garage.maemo.org/projects/pys60/

It would be nice to keep the current state of Garage accessible, just as a reference.

Also the maemo 5 SDK requires files from:
http://scratchbox.org/
That is also a Nokia sponsored project.
We're going to lose some functionality. It's a matter of prioritizing what is important and keeping it.

Website content can easily be moved.

Garage is not going to be accessible indefinitely - that's the point of figuring out what to keep.

We are relying upon OBS with scratchbox2.

www.rzr.online.fr 2012-06-24 20:50
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
definitively, keeping OBS would be a great and by the way adding fremantle support would be awesome , about tizen infrastructure i mentionned earlier i fear the project will not support deb packages , so it will share less than i thought ...

pali 2012-06-24 20:59
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1226804)
I'm wondering, how "transferable" forum content (database) is between crappy vBulletin and something Open Source'd, like phpBB.

sure, it isn't most important think - OBS is much more - but it would be great to retain TMO functionality, run on better and cheaper platform.

/Estel
There is some tool which can convert vbulletin to phpbb2. And phpbb2 can be upgraded to phpbb3. (also there is tool which can convert phpbb to mybb). I do not think there is other converting tool from vbulletin to XYZ.

lma 2012-06-25 00:06
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1226893)
Garage is not going to be accessible indefinitely - that's the point of figuring out what to keep.
Yeah, this is a big one. Source code at least should definitely be preserved (including revision control history), and it shouldn't be too hard to do so, but other things like bugs, mailing lists and so on will be trickier. It doesn't help that each individual project hosted there needs to be considered separately. Shouid we perhaps crowdsource it?

Quote:
We are relying upon OBS with scratchbox2.
I'm not up to date on this, can sb2 support Maemo 2.0 .. 4.1 now?

kate 2012-06-25 08:18
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonko (Post 1226147)
For now I found the following topics to be relevant:
  • Legal Issues (Names, Trademarks, Domain Names, etc.)
  • Infrastructure (Web Site, Forum, Wiki, Autobuilder + MeeGo OBS, Mailinglists, Garage, etc.)
  • Steering (How do we want to organize ourselves? However, please keep this thread on technical details and discuss political issues in a distinct thread.)

Infrastructure
- talk.maemo.org: alternative?
- wiki.maemo.org: alternative?
- garage.maemo.org: alternative: github, gitorious
- main web site at maemo.org: alternative?
- autobuilder?
- OBS at MeeGo?
- Repositories?
About schedule and infrastructure. Three things are needed :
- Servers hardware
- Internet service provider
- Maintenance work


We are planning to buy three servers for Nemein to run maemo.org to end of year. At the moment I don't see any reason why these servers could not be used serve maemo.org later.

About maintenance and ISP I can't speak for Nemein, how much money is required and what part of maintenance work can be run by volunteers.

There is still half of year period for community to organize and find some new sponsors covering costs.

Even maemo.org is not Qt-only, memo.org has also a lot of common with Qt-project, so why not take advantage on that.

Kate

Bernard 2012-06-25 08:59
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kate (Post 1227030)
....
Nemein
...
memo.org
...
After googling I found that Nemein is a web services development company, I did not know that. So other than the fact that they developed part of maemo.org, why would they host/sponsor maemo.org ?

And I assume you mean Nemo, since memo.org doesn't seem to be of much use.
I know it is some kind of alternative OS for N9xx, based of MeeGo and Mer project, but I have no idea who are active in development and how big that community is.

lma 2012-06-25 09:15
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard (Post 1227036)
After googling I found that Nemein is a web services development company, I did not know that. So other than the fact that they developed part of maemo.org, why would they host/sponsor maemo.org ?
They are the current infrastructure maintainers under contract with Nokia. AFAIK the actual hosting is on a third-party ISP. You would have to ask Nemein whether they would be willing to sponsor maemo.org later, but it might be difficult for them at a time when they will have just lost a major source of income.

Quote:
And I assume you mean Nemo, since memo.org doesn't seem to be of much use.
That was obviously a typo for "maemo.org".

lma 2012-06-25 09:19
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kate (Post 1227030)
We are planning to buy three servers for Nemein to run maemo.org to end of year. At the moment I don't see any reason why these servers could not be used serve maemo.org later.
Obvious question: who owns these?

Bernard 2012-06-25 09:24
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1227044)
That was obviously a typo for "maemo.org".
Ah, makes a lot more sense that way. My mistake.

kevloral 2012-06-25 10:16
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1226804)
I'm wondering, how "transferable" forum content (database) is between crappy vBulletin and something Open Source'd, like phpBB.
Not getting into technical details, there may be legal issues there too. Can we just transfer personal data about users that may be stored in their profiles to the new entity that manages the forum? At least in the EU, I think it may be neccessary to request permission from the users to do so. All in all, I have added a few notes to the wiki so this issue is considered

kate 2012-06-25 10:17
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1227044)
They are the current infrastructure maintainers under contract with Nokia. AFAIK the actual hosting is on a third-party ISP. You would have to ask Nemein whether they would be willing to sponsor maemo.org later, but it might be difficult for them at a time when they will have just lost a major source of income.
Nemein is company currently maintaining maemo.org and they will be also hosting maemo.org next 6 months. Currently there is other hosting company but it will be easier to have all in same hands.

I can't speak for Nemein and I don't know who is sponsoring maemo.org in 2013 and how much sponsoring money community gets. It is up to community to decide who will host and who will maintain it. I just hope that community gets sponsors and I hope that Nokia could sponsor even part of it but it is not in my hands.



Kate

kate 2012-06-25 10:21
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1227048)
Obvious question: who owns these?
That's good question. I prefer that it could be "maemo community" but I think that there is not yet such legal entity.

Good proposal would be that community forms some legal entity or co-operates some existing one ( linux.org ? , is there one related with kde ? ). Legal entity would be also needed if any juridical arrangements are done with use of maemo trade mark etc.

Kate

SD69 2012-06-25 13:16
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kate (Post 1227083)
That's good question. I prefer that it could be "maemo community" but I think that there is not yet such legal entity.

Good proposal would be that community forms some legal entity or co-operates some existing one ( linux.org ? , is there one related with kde ? ). Legal entity would be also needed if any juridical arrangements are done with use of maemo trade mark etc.

Kate
Kate,

The proposal for a legal entity has already been made. Thank you for indicating there will be some cooperation with it.
We are planning on a community independent of kde, although there might be some relationship with Mer/Nemo.

I am heading the legal group for the maemo community. Please contact me with further details. I will want to know when the three servers will be available and the countries in which the maemo trademark has been registered.

marmistrz 2012-06-25 13:30
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurrian (Post 1226461)
First off, we'll need to host TMO with our own money, unless you want to go with crappy free hosts or gasp, be incorporated into a XDA subforum.
(Also, if we needed to cut costs, we could switch away from vBulletin to something free, like phpBB.)
Same with the front page, althought I guess with the right forum layout, we can discard that too.
As for a WMO alternative, I guess if we really needed to start shaving costs we could put the articles up on Wikipedia after some heavy cleanup.
And for the autobuilder, if the MeeGo OBS really is getting shut down, I guess we have no other choice than to rent a VPS and run our own instance of OBS there.
(this would probably host the repos too).


IIRC, github does free hosting of simple webpages.
We can use some free/cheap hosting (even if these aren't nice domains, we can use dot.tk)

Reggie 2012-06-25 16:47
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1227149)
The proposal for a legal entity has already been made. Thank you for indicating there will be some cooperation with it. We are planning on a community independent of kde, although there might be some relationship with Mer/Nemo.
Is that proposal you are referring to documented somewhere? Also, who is the "we" (in red)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1227149)
I am heading the legal group for the maemo community.
Can you identify the members of this legal group?

Thanks.

Cas07 2012-06-25 17:50
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
The hosting issue can be solved by approaching http://osuosl.org/ who host many large open source projects.

Reggie 2012-06-25 17:58
Re: Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory
 
For those asking about the forum:

1. It is currently hosted on a dedicated 8GB 2GHz quad-core Xeon server from softlayer.com (server location: Dallas, TX USA)
2. Backup (daily): on same server (with RAID 5). Offsite: NAS from softlayer.com (NAS location: Washington, DC USA)
3. Forum disk space size: ~12GB
4. Monthly bandwidth: ~450GB
5. Number of emails sent per week (mostly from forum reply notification): ~8000

I personally own the vBulletin license, so a new vBulletin license is required (~$195).

For those asking, yes a lot of the forum systems (including open source ones) have vB migration tools. Sure, a cheaper or free forum system can be used but think about the expertise of the volunteer who intend to administer it (both the front and back end). Think about daily backup, DDoS attacks, automated spammer attacks, etc. The admnistrator(s) should be able to perform/monitor/avoid these 24 hrs/day.

There is also the task of creating custom plug-ins. As an example, TMO has a custom plug-in that links with the Maemo.org membership database so karma can be computed correctly off the members' TMO posts/thanks. Not all forum systems have the 'Thanks' featue, so think about how that can be supported and the thanks data migrated.

If moving to a new domain/forum name, I agree that members should be notified and asked for their permission.


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