maemo.org - Talk - Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

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- - Does anyone want to swap testing apps? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85695)

Ken-Young

2012-07-25 17:48

Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

I've got an app, "maeFat", that has been languishing in Extras-Testing since early March. Although it has gotten only 1 QA vote (from me!), I know that the package is used by others, because I've received email requests for new features to be added. So it's not a completely useless app, but clearly it doesn't excite anyone who is currently testing N900 apps. I'm sure there must be other people out there with apps stuck eternally in community QA. If you have such an app, I'll test yours if you'll test mine. I'm not trying to get anyone to vote on it without testing it, and I will genuinely test your app in exchange. Anyone wanna swap?

My App is here:
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...aefat/2.1.0-1/

sifo	2012-07-25 17:52

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

they are 2 votes now :) thank you for this app

Edit : after voting and refreshing the package page my vote is gone ! i voted again !

./sifo

Ken-Young

2012-07-25 18:09

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sifo (Post 1242877)

they are 2 votes now :) thank you for this app

Edit : after voting and refreshing the package page my vote is gone ! i voted again !

./sifo

Yeah, there's still only one vote. Perhaps the problem is not that nobody will test and vote for my app. Maybe the problem is that votes are not being recorded.

Update: The second vote is there now. Thanks, Sifo!

sixwheeledbeast

2012-07-25 22:43

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

There's applications in Testing that have been stuck there for ages.
Some have no maintainers, some people haven't voted because they have been told to use the devel version.

I have recently subscribed to the Testing Squad and I am slowly working through all apps in testing (putting them through QA)

There are a good few quality apps stuck on 4 and 5 votes in testing.
There are also lots of apps stuck in testing that have passed QA with loads of votes.

I am also bumping threads where a seemingly stable app is in devel. It seems a shame things don't make it through the repo's like they should.
Especially when a good app is stuck in devel with nobody to push it to testing.

I will get round to QA your app, shortly.
Meanwhile

http://wiki.maemo.org/Testing_Squad

http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/

Also do you have announce thread for your application? As I don't remember seeing it on the forum.

somedude

2012-07-26 00:08

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

we really need an industrial standard auto QA

Ken-Young

2012-07-26 01:34

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by somedude (Post 1243030)

we really need an industrial standard auto QA

It's hard for me to see how that could really work. Our little corner of the world is small enough that it's likely that nobody will bother to make truly sophisticated malware apps, but I'll bet building bulletproof auto QA is equivalent to solving the "Halting Problem".

In principle, community QA is a really great idea. Our Extras Repository is largely free of worthless fart apps and web page scrapers not because they are prohibited, but because nobody is interested enough in them to test them.

Ken-Young

2012-07-26 01:51

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixwheeledbeast (Post 1242996)

[...]
Meanwhile

http://wiki.maemo.org/Testing_Squad

http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/

Also do you have announce thread for your application? As I don't remember seeing it on the forum.

I've done a little testing of other apps, but frankly most of them don't interest me. I care nothing about themes, sports or social networking (I'm an old coot). I realize this makes me part of the problem.

I was basically offering to test someone else's app that I am really not interested in, if they would do the same for me.

I did make an announce thread ( http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70609 ) but it of course has not been in the Active Topics list for quite a while. I also made a wiki page ( http://wiki.maemo.org/MaeFat ).

Thanks for your work testing apps!

Hurrian

2012-07-26 10:30

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Tested, didn't crash on startup, and voted.

IMO, unless the package is a system package (these usually have to be tested by devs), we don't need to use -testing and -devel repos.

sixwheeledbeast

2012-07-26 10:58

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurrian (Post 1243168)

Tested, didn't crash on startup, and voted.

IMO, unless the package is a system package (these usually have to be tested by devs), we don't need to use -testing and -devel repos.

Sorry but I don't agree.
QA is an important part of all maemo applications.
Many issues on TMO are due to people wrongly and unknowingly using all the repo's

Most of us here know a bit more how to modify and repair but there are still a few N900 users that have no idea how to get root (for example)
devel > testing > extras works, it's a proven method for most repo's, we just don't have as many people testing everything.

Did you check optification? CPU usage? powertop before and after?

Although I agree application like this have less risk than binaries and system packages, it still should go through the QA process IMHO.

This is why I am slowly testing as much as I can.

@Ken-Young you should also bump your thread and ask for people to QA. You'll be surpised how many people look at [Announce] threads with a smile!

qwazix

2012-07-26 11:05

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

The qa problem is maiinly due to low visibility of the testing queue. I have loads of apps from testing that I use regularly and I have tried to test but:

1. It is time consumimg to search for app in QA
2. I never know if I am voting for the right app version
3. There is no reminder in tmo which I visit regularly

One solution is to have link inside app directly to qa but this will be there even if the appmakes it to extras (except if it checks from where it was downloaded if possible, or dynamically through internet)

Another solution is to have a direct link or widget on tmo that shows apps who need votes, ordered by a function of number of downloads and inverse votes needed

Lastly, auto-promotion of apps after 12 or more votes could also help.

BTW I just installed maefat, and will vote after I use it for a week or so. Please give speedcrunch a shot if you have time. It's not perfect (ui not completely mobile optimized) but I think it's usable.

sixwheeledbeast

2012-07-26 11:17

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1243195)

The qa problem is maiinly due to low visibility of the testing queue. I have loads of apps from testing that I use regularly and I have tried to test but:

1. It is time consumimg to search for app in QA
2. I never know if I am voting for the right app version
3. There is no reminder in tmo which I visit regularly

One solution is to have link inside app directly to qa but this will be there even if the appmakes it to extras (except if it checks from where it was downloaded if possible, or dynamically through internet)

Another solution is to have a direct link or widget on tmo that shows apps who need votes, ordered by a function of number of downloads and inverse votes needed

I completely agree.
FYI I finished testing speedcrunch last week, nice app BTW only needs one vote. ;)

Ken-Young

2012-07-26 12:26

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1243195)

[...]
BTW I just installed maefat, and will vote after I use it for a week or so. Please give speedcrunch a shot if you have time. It's not perfect (ui not completely mobile optimized) but I think it's usable.

Thanks! I'll download and start testing speedcrunch tonight (US time).

sixwheeledbeast

2012-07-26 15:55

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Speedcrunch now promoted.

rcolistete

2012-07-26 16:32

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1243195)

1. It is time consumimg to search for app in QA

Yes, this is the problem for Maemo 5, the testing is hidden voting from the user (when installing softwares). Even some topics with softwares annoucements don't show how to review them.

When using MeeGo Harmattan, "Nokia Store" and "Apps For MeeGo" softwares shows "Review"/"Review this App". "Apps For MeeGo" even puts in the top the softwares already downloaded and not reviewed.

I've voted for MaeFat, now it has 6 votes and is unlocked to be promoted.

Ken-Young

2012-07-26 17:22

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixwheeledbeast (Post 1243341)

Speedcrunch now promoted.

Zoot - I guess I'm too late to do reciprocal testing then. Thanks again to everyone who tested and voted on my app in response to this thread. maeFat has now been promoted to Extras.

timoph

2012-07-26 17:36

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

nowdays I'm in favour of dropping the QA totally. I tried helping with it a while ago but the effort was wasted since there's not even nearly enough people willing to do testing. This simply requires too much effort per tester in the long with only a handful of people. Just having extras and devel would be imo enough. Let the dev decide when it's ready. Sure, we'd see a lot more buggy things in extras but we might actually see something updated/new there.

Sightly offtopic but that would solve the issue.

Ken-Young

2012-07-26 17:58

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcolistete (Post 1243362)

[...]
When using MeeGo Harmattan, "Nokia Store" and "Apps For MeeGo" softwares shows "Review"/"Review this App". "Apps For MeeGo" even puts in the top the softwares already downloaded and not reviewed.
[...]

Doesn't this approach run the risk of blurring the line between voting for an app that you like, and voting for an app that you've actually evaluated technically? If you lose that distinction, then malware apps can get into your public repository merely by upvotes from satisfied users who have voted thumbs up without checking for things like optification or potential security risks.

rcolistete

2012-07-26 18:16

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken-Young (Post 1243403)

Doesn't this approach run the risk of blurring the line between voting for an app that you like, and voting for an app that you've actually evaluated technically? If you lose that distinction, then malware apps can get into your public repository merely by upvotes from satisfied users who have voted thumbs up without checking for things like optification or potential security risks.

Yes, there is this risk.

sixwheeledbeast

2012-07-26 18:52

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by timoph (Post 1243401)

Let the dev decide when it's ready. Sure, we'd see a lot more buggy things in extras but we might actually see something updated/new there.

Your not solving the problems your just moving them and making more issues for people who have no idea how to fix them.

What use is having more new/updates in extras if there not tested, your turning everybody into a beta tester.

I am sorry but, thanks to this thread two (potentially more) applications have gone stable. How can anybody say the system doesn't work.

I agree QA is not made easy for us but if we want to see more stable apps, this is a FOSS community and only working collectively will get them there.

Ken-Young

2012-07-27 05:36

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixwheeledbeast (Post 1243421)

[...]
I am sorry but, thanks to this thread two (potentially more) applications have gone stable. How can anybody say the system doesn't work.
[...]

One nice feature of getting our apps into Extras is we get to see how many downloads they had when they were hanging around in the other repositories. Both of our apps have had well over 100,000 downloads. Even allowing for the fact that several versions may have been pushed into Extras-Devel, resulting in several downloads/user, if looks like both of these apps have at least been tried by thousands of end users.

timoph

2012-07-27 06:11

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixwheeledbeast (Post 1243421)

Your not solving the problems your just moving them and making more issues for people who have no idea how to fix them.

What use is having more new/updates in extras if there not tested, your turning everybody into a beta tester.

Not saying it's a good thing not having QA for extras. I just don't believe anymore that this community is able to keep the QA process running. It just don't make sense imo to keep a unused process in use.

The 46 pages long qa queue @ http://maemo.org/packages/repository...xtras-testing/ tells the whole story.

sixwheeledbeast

2012-07-27 13:23

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by timoph (Post 1243617)

The 46 pages long qa queue @ http://maemo.org/packages/repository...xtras-testing/ tells the whole story.

This is including "non-application" packages, more importantly how many have no maintainer. I think this is the reason most are still there.

jackburton

2012-07-27 14:17

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

What's the difference between votes and testers?

Does a 'vote' mean that somebody has gone through the testing process and we 'trust' them?

Why does an app need 6 votes? Why can't we have just 2 'trusted testers'? These are folks who are members of the community.

sixwheeledbeast

2012-07-27 16:19

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackburton (Post 1243779)

What's the difference between votes and testers?

Does a 'vote' mean that somebody has gone through the testing process and we 'trust' them?

Why does an app need 6 votes? Why can't we have just 2 'trusted testers'? These are folks who are members of the community.

Testers (with a maemo.org garage account) test packages and vote on them using the following:-

http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/QA_Checklist

Votes can be positive or negative depending on if they pass all criteria.

The more different devices/people used for testing the better as different set-ups may find different bugs.

sixwheeledbeast

2012-07-27 16:37

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken-Young (Post 1243391)

Zoot - I guess I'm too late to do reciprocal testing then. Thanks again to everyone who tested and voted on my app in response to this thread. maeFat has now been promoted to Extras.

Quick list of application/updates worth QA testing if you have time.
After all this thread has put two deserving apps in extras, why not suggest some alternatives - seen as you never got to test speedcrunch.

Useful
Browser Switchboard
Music Sheet Test
siggy

Games
Inner-spin
Pusher
Pusher-editor
PokerTH

Ken-Young

2012-07-27 17:12

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixwheeledbeast (Post 1243832)

Quick list of application/updates worth QA testing if you have time.
After all this thread has put two deserving apps in extras, why not suggest some alternatives - seen as you never got to test speedcrunch.

OK, I'll consider testing a couple of those to be my payment for the time you and others spent testing my app.

sixwheeledbeast

2012-07-27 17:19

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

@Ken-Young, one reason why people have possibly avoided your app is due to no icon in HAM.
I very often skip over looking at applications with no icon.

Your control file is missing:-

Code:

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 ====

sifo	2012-07-27 17:27

Re: Does anyone want to swap testing apps?

i guess it is not with the control file or that string as i uploaded my icons pack and put the icon of the pack in the source folder before building it.
and now there is an icons for it :)

hope this help

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