Samsung on the ropes
 

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_want...-news-4624.php


Looks like they copied iPhones as much as they could. Looks to me like apple will win here. But what is few billion here or there for the south Korean giant?

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Why do people even bother to report anything about this case? It's about as ridiculous as court cases can be.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Let me quote something which I read there :D

:o

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

If anything, I'd say it puts Apple in a worse position.

The supposedly "hidden" evidence Apple is using is "a 132-page document written in 2010 by Sammy engineers that directly compares the iPhone against the Galaxy S".

Firstly, this is an internal comparison against the competition for R&D purposes.
Secondly, this was drafted after the i9000 (SGS) was revealed/retailed.
Thirdly, this is not an illegal or improper action, in fact many companies in different markets do the same practices.
Finally, the document (plainly) describes Samsung should "remove a feeling that the iPhone's menu icons are copied by differentiating design"

Conclusion, what the Samsung's internal R&D engineers are actually arguing (in the slides) is to make design changes to the SGS i9000 to achieve a "luxurious" feel and try to make the icons look LESS like Apple's.

On the other hand, Apple has been caught doing the same thing, using design references from SONY and saying those similarities were never intended to make their way into the iPhone design. And when Samsung does it, "its blatant copying" and when they do it "its research".

I'm not saying they don't have a case, I'm saying its beginning to get fishy real-quick. I mean, imagine if Hyundai was banned from selling cars because their cars (Example, i45) have inspirations from Mercedes-Benz?

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

This is Apple's true motivation, Android's global market share is now 68% (with Samsung being by far the biggest) and iOS only 16%. Apple are struggling to compete with Samsung.

The iPhone looks old and dull now anyway. Rather than being a copy of the LG Prada like the current one I suspect the next iPhone will be much more like the Galaxy S3 or the HTC Sensation.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

check out http://www.groklaw.net if you so incline. The analysis of this case(and other infamous cases) has been outstanding and refreshing.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

So pinch zooming is now Apple's property, tested and proven legally?

Has Nokia cross licensing with Apple which includes Apple's multitouch gesture patents?

Nice protectionism. Interesting to see how Google reacts.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

i told ya all that Samsung is on the ropes

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Samsung isn't on the ropes. The $1.05 Billion fine doesn't even equate to the $3.8 Billion Apple paid Samsung for components last year. It doesn't equate to 1/4th of what Samsung made in the last quarter of 2011.

Simply stated, this judgement is more about limiting innovation around prior art and other arguable things.

So be it. Samsung got caught copying some things. Let's see how badly this spills over to other lawsuits. This is a license to sue, if you ask me.

But on the ropes? Look above. Not hardly.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Here's what should've happened with the jury:

1) Apple is found infringing on all of Samsung's utility patents. They are awarded something "measly" like $20 Million to cover for all iOS device sales that were infringing on FRAND patents.

2) Samsung is found NOT infringing on all of Apple's design patents. They are scrapped as invalid and copied from prior-arts and etc.

3) Samsung is found NOT infringing for all claims on their tablets.

4) Samsung is found infringing on Apple's "trade dress" and "dilution" claims only for phones that share close resemblance (eg Fascinate etc). Total is $2.5 Bil (or maybe less).

There fixed.
Now Samsung is scorched with this ruling. Apple is awarded a large sum which should "more than" compensate for its market share loss. Apple has become susceptible to FRAND royalties it neglects from other OEMs. Apple has been de-clawed from suing other OEMs with design patents. The battleground is neutral again.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

You know what I meant, on the ropes in the courtroom, and Yes, they were knocked out. With regards to the big picture, yes, financially is not much to them. But why do you want to buy copycats?

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Industrial protectionism is nothing new. What's new is the watering down of patent laws have been approved in a court. There are several courts around the world, and Apple being a US company have opened up a can of worms that will hit them smack in the face at the next occasion.

Of course Samsung have copied some of the look and feel of Apple. The point is that look and feel is not patentable, it never has been. Besides, a grid of icons, please.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Microsoft copied Xerox. Apple copied Xerox. Microsoft copied IBM and Apple.

Dunno man. There's a lot of copycats over the years.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

This is more about protecting us company than right or wrong. Even if they don't have the same patent in other countries we wouldn't see this outcome in other countries. This is more about US vs Asia than technical aspects and who have done what.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

A UK court recently ruled Apple must take out advertisements stating Samsung did NOT copy their products. I guess that's the difference between home territory and neutral ground.

To me the iPhone just looks like the LG Prada which won a design and innovation award in 2006.

What's the betting the next iPhone will have a bigger screen with a smaller surround thus making it look more like a Galaxy?

The iPhone is a nice feature phone and Apple have made a lot of money from it. I'm sure when they announce their next iteration (i.e. a new number and some other tiny modification) their devotees will queue up all night in order to pay EUR 600 for it and I don't doubt they'll hail it as the most 'innovative' device in the entire history of the cosmos but I'd wager my used tissue collection it wont contain anything new or interesting to a real smartphone enthusiast.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Is there any multitouch device which would not have pinch to zoom now?
http://www.dailytech.com/Jury+Finds+...icle25515c.htm
Seems like whole dictionary of Apple's gesture patents have now been confirmed by a court ruling.
http://gizmodo.com/285176/apples-ges...or-multi+touch

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

From the same article:

"Pinch to zoom was first dreamt up decades ago by Myron Krueger and the University of Toronto developed and published papers on virtually equivalent technology almost 25 years prior to Apple producing its first multi-touch device (the iPhone), but Apple claims to have "invented" pinch-to-zoom as it appeared to be the first to do it in the context of a capacitive multi-touch screen."

Laughable. Perhaps Apple should also patent it 'in the context of' a black rectangle just to be extra sure.

I'm surprised Samsung's lawyers didn't go for the 'prior art' defence rather than the 'we did not copy Apple' defence, it seems there's plenty of prior art for all of Apple's 'inventions'.


There was an episode of 'The Goon Show' where one of the characters patented the word 'help' and then went around pushing everyone in the river. Real life has got nearly as silly.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

It is not like Samsung's legal team would not have presented prior art, but jurors just didn't feel like taking it seriously.

http://apple.slashdot.org/story/12/0...ogging-us-down
It is not the first time I think US legal system seems to be just a big bad and sad joke.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

An impartial jury consisting of the world's most renowned patent experts has spoken! :D

I wonder why judges in other countries didn't came to the same conclusion..:rolleyes:

Bad for US consumers, good for MS and its poodle Nokia.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

One reson can be that apple don't have the same patent there.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

In EU and in many countries, this kind of "software patents" like pinch-to-zoom cannot be patented.

Now, if the court ruling stands, soon there won't be pinch-to-zoom in any other smart phone than in iPhone. Steve Jobbs once said, gesture patents Apple never will license to anyone.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

But the very quote you provided suggests Samsung's legal team did NOT present prior art:

"After we debated that first patent — what was prior art — because we had a hard time believing there was no prior art, that there wasn't something out there before Apple."

If Samsung's lawyers had done their jobs properly this juror would have categorically known there absolutely was 'something out there before Apple'.


As I understand it software can only be patented in the EU if it has a 'technical effect'. As an example, if you write some software that boosts a mobile phone signal then it is patentable because it has a 'technical effect', you can measure the signal strength and see it has been boosted. As you rightly say a feature like "pinch-to-zoom" would not be patentable.

I think that's a sensible position and I hope the EU will continue to avoid the dreadful mess we see in the US.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

I also read the judge used to work for a law firm that represented Apple and even took equity in the company as part payment for their services. Does anybody know if that's right?

It's shocking that she should be allowed to oversee the case if it's true. It might make you wonder if she had an ulterior motive for denying Samsung's lawyers the opportunity of presenting so much of their evidence.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Oh, but Samsung did.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...witnesses.html

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

The biggest looser here are the consumers. I think it would be nice if the consumers created and organisation and took patents on the user. If anything, or anyone tried to limit the user experience the would pay billions to the organisation and the organisation could try to do things for people around the world. So many people having need basic things in the world.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Only in the US, so I'm not affected :D.

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

hi fellas , since this is an off topic thread ,i wanted to ask another off topic question.Though i might get some help from here .Could any one tell me about external hard disks ? today i was going to buy a terabyte external hard disk .For now i am planning to buy a samsung one .Could any one suggest me if there is even better than samsung or how better this samsung external hard drive works ? thanks in advance !

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Dude don't Jack the thread.
Make a new one. OR post in a relevant one.

Pretty much all external HDDs are the same.
Look for reviews on PC tech sites if you arent sure.

Back on topic, having the consumer pay for individual parents it's nonsense. Either the USPTO needs a major review (which ain't gonna happen). Or Samsung needs to strike back by invalidating the claims in the form of a mistrial.

The $1B isn't an issue. In fact even $4B isn't an issue.
The issue is that Apple can now ban and make injunctions automatically for every Android device.... that'll hurt them where it hurts. And afterwards they can make bullsh't claims and steal their profits.

So yeah its a mess, and Americans are stupid enough not to do anything. about it (see Telecommunications contracts for proof).

PS Samsung contributes more money into USAs economy than Apple, and they don't make as much profits as them either. So you decide which company is more "American".

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

I agree, there have been discussions regarding Apple's patent predation and their lack of charity.
This rather succinct article touches on both traits...

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ.../08/steve-jobs

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

yes i am sure even micronokia has intrests in killing samsung mobile bussines just wait and see not only apple is evil here.

actually I am not suprised if both nokia and apple help each other...

but the main thing is too scare away small players from linux and.android. Both microsoft and apple wins on that...

Re: Samsung on the ropes
 

Usability on the ropes.