Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

For those who are interested in the daily ups and downs of the stock price, this is the thread.

The last thread was mistakenly closed because of background noise, so I no longer have anywhere to put the stock graphs I've been putting here at about lunch time (CET) every day. It's pretty much the only thread I'm still active here, so I want to keep the stock thread active a little bit more.

Other people have contributed with related news and rumours of Nokia. And finally we have two(=one) very noisy noise artists who've been messing the "THIS IS THE TIME TO BUY" tune as a background tune for the last year or so. For those who are here to talk about how fab the Lumia range is, well, it doesn't seem to have any relation to the stock prices at all so keep it elsewhere.

As usual, I'm linking to a temp-graph that usually lasts a few days before it's removed. I'm usually posting NOK1V quotes at lunch times, which can give tje new worlders some indication as to how NYSE:NOK will start a few hours later. I don't post anything valuable or smart, people can look this up elsewhere but then that'd be boring and lonesome.

I'm a bit early today, so there's less than two hours worth of data. The daily graph is pretty flat. The Qt sales hasn't made any impact yet, also it was expected. So today I'm linking the more dramatic 1 month graph. This graphs shows a pretty good month for Nokia, with what might just be a correction to a too low stock price compared to the massive holdings Nokia after all do have.

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...125bcece45.png

NOK1V - Helsinki - stock price in €.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

excellent, Nokia looking good. I'm finally back at the same prize as when I bought. Now, Buy more, Keep, or sale :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

why is the stock raise when nokia sell out everything?

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/0...okia-and-more/

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The investors like the fact they are shedding their Taleban phone inventory

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I say it has nothing to do with that, and instead:

1. no immediate need of money from shareholders. Cash flow is OK ATM.
2. Anticipation of the of the new windows 8 phones.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

NOKIA will be $20 in 24 months. There is no way they are less valuable than RIM. WP8 may not please the crowd here, but it will please the 99% who want their phone to just work, without scripts, and suboptimal patches.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

ICS contains code that indicates multi-user functionality is coming, that suggests Android's coming to the desktop. Maybe the overwhelming majority that seem to have rejected the dull, blocky Metro UI on their smartphone wont want it on their desktop either.

It might not only be NOKIA's stock that comes under pressure. PC's are already in decline whilst smartphones and tablets are on the up.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I fail to see why texrat believed the old thread needed to be closed.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...62771a904b.png

I haven't seen the news today, but it looks like something happened to NYSE:NOK at the end of the day?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nokia is overated atm. My guess is it will fall again i n september when announced. I hardly dont expect camera wp phone and then stok will drop again becUse its just a regular wp phone that some people will buy but definitivly not the masses as some naive fanboys may think! And selling 500 patents does not look good for a company..

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Stock value dont follow any kind of logic. So even if you trying to understand or predict the nokia stock you are nowhere near the truth. There are far more important stuff for nokia stock than sales.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Desktop is office and gaming along with some other specialized software. Nobody cares about the UI or OS as long as it is able to launch the right stuff. However, it seems like MS wants to tighten the grip, controlling the market of software, and by doing that they open up for Android. Android on a PC? why not, but not some half assed web cloud nonsense with Angry Birds, we don't need PCs for that.

Nokia stock. I would expect it would stay for some time at $1.5 ish, but it has climbed sooner then I expected. I think it's just people getting scared. You know, what IF Nokia "makes it" after all kind of effect. It could drop again before going up when WP8 comes into the shops. It could also be that people are finally seeing that Nokia is doing the right thing. RIM is as good as dead. Palm/HP is gone. HTC, I give HTC a year. Motorola is Google. In the end not even Samsung can compete against ZTE and Huawei.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Stock looking good today as well. Bloomberg excpects nokia profitable 2014 :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Well, that's 30000 patents minus (2000+500) as far as I know, so they probably have some left.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nice and steady. http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...f826f1a8c9.png

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

How far will it go?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

True, but how many of those 30000 are really worth something? Those 500 were stated as 'essential' (2G/3G/4G) patents. Kind of troubling that they are already selling LTE and SAE patents for petty cash.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I'm not even sure Nokia themselves know. It's a lot of patents to keep a tab on.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The only possible answer to that question is always 0. The ultimate value will always end up being 0, for any stock..

I don't see any other answer to that question, unless you ad a qualifier like time, before it's first peak (which would be within minutes), before a major highest-value-of-the-year, etc.

So, as the question stands, I would have to go with '0'.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Kissing good-bye to billions and billions of Euros of revenues and turning handsome profits into massive losses is 'doing the the right thing'?


Samsung are already dominating Huawei and ZTE in the Android market.

But of course in your bizarre little fantasy world losing is winning. Samsung need to crash and burn their business - publicly rubbish all their best selling devices in order to crash their sales, find a failed unpopular OS to replace Android, if their designers should come up with a well received new product limit it's markets to make sure it doesn't sell too well, sack any members of staff that have a clue and in their place employ people who have no relevant experience, reduce their margins, release buggy, low-functioning devices that tarnish their reputation and turn handsome profits into huge losses.

Undoubtedly if they did all of the above you'd hail their great success.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

But how are they going to keep it that way? With Android gadgets if anything, it's the specs/price ratio which affects what people will buy. Samsung doesn't have anything special that would make people prefer it over ZTE/Huawei, once the specs gap is gone. And with price they cannot compete.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Not just patent firesale.

Just heard from on finnish news that Digia paid only 4 million euros for Qt. Thats meager 3125% less than what Nokia paid for Qt.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Well Qt is worth zero,nada to nokia so its 4 m for nothing. Great deal.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Samsung are a global behemoth, they have huge economies of scale. They can employ staff wherever on the planet it's most cost effective to do so. They manufacture touchscreens, processors, memory, etc... - components their competitors would have to source from third parties. Should Samsung choose to match ZTE's and Huawei's price points like for like then I'm sure they could, however I don't think they will because they don't have to. Certainly not at the moment. Samsung have a standing and a reputation that ZTE and Huawei are currently still a long way from achieving.

Setting your price too low can actually give a perception of poor quality that is counter-productive.

NOKIA better watch out for ZTE and Huawei though, they're both reported to be planning WP8 devices and the NOKIA brand is now so tarnished with failure that they're much more likely to have to slug it out on price. NOKIA's margins are already tumbling and WP8 doesn't even give them any possibility of customisation or differentiation so imo it's much more likely to be a feature for feature slap down.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

True, but then what IP's changed hands? Non where mentioned on the press releases.
Nokia shelved around 120 workers that it doesn't need anymore and got paid 4 million for it is probably what Nokia is thinking.

And anyways the money Nokia lost developing Qt is peanuts to that 100 million Nokia paid for Trolltech.



Pretty much.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

But it is also worth noting that no one else would purchase qt for more. The real value of qt is not much. Thus it shows what terrible mistakes the previous administration made. Qt is nice, but it was insane to pay that much for it. It is a better product now than it was pre Nokia.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

It doesn't show any such thing, Qt was to bridge the gap between Symbian and MeeGo and also to Meltemi for the 'next billion'. Qt made sense then, NOKIA sold lots of phones, they were in control of their own app store and their own 'ecosystem'. Qt and the expertise of Trolltech was immensely valuable to the future NOKIA.

Now, thanks to Elop, it's very unlikely there will be a 'next billion' for NOKIA (that will go to Android, Tizen and/or Firefox OS), they have very little control of the software that's on their 'smart' phones and M$ now controls the app store and most of the 'ecosystem' anyway. If M$ say no Qt then there's no Qt.

NOKIA are now just a dumb box shifter, they just have to put up and shut up. They're lower down the food chain than Samsung, ZTE, Huawei, LG, etc... because they can't even threaten to use a different OS. NOKIA have no bargaining power, M$ has got them by the nuts and they just have to do what they're told.

The selling of assets at knock down prices is just indicative of the dreadful mess they've got themselves in.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Luckely for us. Stocks dont care for any of that, so please keep that in another thread.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Its not about if wp8 succes for nokia now. Question now is if nokia can continue compete on lowend with asha...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nokia will compete in low end and WP will power low end devices pretty soon. its all going according to plans. you got to give Elop 3 years to turn around Nokia mess. that is a normal time to make a significant turnaround like Nokia.

lets face it: nokia is not a competitive software company. there is no way that Qt would have worked the way you guys think. there is no such thing as painless and seamless integration of different platforms.

the only good lead nokia had was marmo 5. they had many years to develop it and they came out with a downgrade: n9. this tells you how bad their software engineering was

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Yes they do, strategy and viability of products are relevant to the market value of a company.

In February 2011 when Elop announced NOKIA's shift to WP7 the share price instantly dropped, the market didn't have faith in the new strategy and that was immediately reflected in the share price.

NOKIA's current value is pretty much the value of their IPR and nothing else, the market is still not convinced of NOKIA's chances of climbing out of the hole it's dug itself into.

This isn't going to be a very interesting thread if all you can post is the current share price.

Perhaps you should start a preview thread where everybody posts any comment they are considering adding to another thread so you can give it your approval beforehand. I'm sure everyone would comply, it's obvious you're by far the cleverest and most important person here.

As for me I wont tell you what your opinions should be or where you should express them, I'll even happily leave it to you to decide whether or not they're really pertinent.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Sure you can post whatever you like, you can follow my adivice or ignore it. Its just that the thing you point out have been pointed out at least 100 times in the other stock thread. And I think we all agree on the obvious point that you and everyine who has posted the same thing.

We dont know how this all would have played out without elop and continue with sumbian and meego. Might been worse. Nobody knows.
And no point keeping *****ing about it. Cant turn back time.

My take on this is not that market share drives the stock price atm, neither the sales. Its expectation and buissniss as usual that drivs nokia stock atm.

You should constantly analyze the stock and market. But no point crying a out old decictions. They are already made.

I think I should approve all post from now on. ;)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Tell us about your experience, what platforms did you develop for and what problems did you encounter with your Qt applications?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

An interesting article

"Not only is Nokia losing money with a negative profit margin of 12.77%, but it could run out of cash in 2013.

The debt-to-equity ratio of 0.58 is way too high for a company that is losing money, or making any, for that matter.

On a quarterly basis, sales growth is down by 18.68%.

Over the same period, earnings-per-share growth is lower by 283.06%.

The only indicator that is increasing sharply is the short float for Nokia Corporation, now the second largest on the New York Stock Exchange at 202,751,180 shares, a 22.4% jump from July 13 to July 31, the most recent reporting period. "

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

FUD! Please explain in detail how Nokia is even remotely close to run out of cash in 2013. This is just nonsense from someone with an agenda. Someone who can't do simple math.

Take a closer look at HTC. Stocks have dropped more than 80% the last 3 Q. They will run out of cash as well, because they have no (in comparison to Nokia). This shows what Android does to business in the long run. Within 1 year Samsung will be in the same situation wrt their Android phones due to ZTE and Huawei.

The situation is WP or nothing for all non-Chinese companies. That is the reality Nokia is facing and the others are ignoring.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nonsense. The only truely bad thing about N9 is that it was scrapped in favor of WP.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Following your logic, it would therefore seem beneficial for a phone maker to have their own OS.. Huawei and ZTE could easily use Windows Phone too...where would that leave Nokia? In big trouble

Maybe, just maybe that's why Samsung is investing in Tizen, so they have something to differentiate themselves from the others. Unfortunately Elop ruined any possible differentiation Nokia had

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Of course it is. Regarding smartphones though, only Apple has been able to do it successfully with a competitive OS and HW in the last 5 years. Nokia did not.

Wrong. WP raises the commercial bar. Android lowers it. The effect is with Android you have eventually to compete with price only. With WP you can compete with technology and innovation.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

It's not just one person with an agenda. NOKIA finished Q2 2012 with EUR 4.2 billion in cash, Morgan Stanley projected that would be down to EUR 2.5 billion by the end of Q4. Fitch also downgraded NOKIA's debt rating because of their projected cash burn.

NOKIA has reducing margins as well as reducing sales. The damage done to their Symbian range is irreparable and Lumia sales are nowhere near picking up at the same rate Symbian is dropping off.

We now know the feature phone division is likely to stagnate at a time it's already coming under pressure from budget Android devices. There's now going to be no Meltemi, no Qt. What exciting advances can we realistically expect to see in J2ME devices?

NOKIA are already making losses. Reducing sales, shrinking margins and stagnating products will all just accelerate the losses and the cash burn.


You do understand there is a correlation between making profits and generating cash right? I'm not saying HTC's current position is as they'd like it but at least they're still profitable. Samsung are currently eating most of their lunch but they do have the chance to regroup and come again.


That's nothing but pure baseless speculation on your part.


If you hadn't noticed many are all already offering WP7 phones, including ZTE and Huawei.

No other company was daft enough to put all their eggs in that particular basket though. Just as well as so far WP has proved to be a universal flop.