Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

I'm big on custom shells and user interfaces. Before I installed vista on my laptop and got lazy, I ran a theme I made for the Litestep shell for windows. My gentoo box ran a similar theme I wrote for Fluxbox before that server met an untimely demise. I'll be honest. I really dont like the user interface on the 770. Sure, you can spruce it up, make it pretty, add a few things to the home screen, but its just putting lipstick on the pig in the end. Has anyone tried to make a replacement shell and interface for the ITT's? Is there even any interest in that? Am I the only person who would be happy to work on a new interface of them?

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

That would be pretty neat. Also it would let those who have ideas build something more unique and closer to their interests. And who knows mabe this new gui can be so good that people would use it over the hildon UI.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Technically Hildon *is* a custom UI. It's fairly customisable too, just see what Intel are doing to Hildon home on their MID devices.

Anyway, if you search here you'll find people have had KDE running on top of Maemo on an N800, as well as WindowMaker and OpenBox.

There are also entire OS replacements such as Poky, Angstom and GPE - but these have downsides where binary components are involved.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Yeah I don't know, maybe a port of something people could write very flexible themes for? or atleast a new improved hardcoded ui.

Openbox and Windowmaker, 'eh? But only for the 800? No love for the 770?

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

being able to install the themes that I had installed before the last OS update would be pretty good for me :(

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

I checked out openbox and windowmaker. That isn't quite what I'm talking about. I'm talking about doing something different, something that you simply wouldnt do on a pc, because it wouldnt make sense for pc controls. Something designed specificly for smaller devices with different controls. I have ideas, but I'm a graphic designer, and while I have a bit of IT and Linux experience, it isn't nearly enough to know how to code such a thing into reality.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

So can we get an opinion on the Poky, Angstrom and GPE UI's

Has anyone installed them and been happy with what they got?

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Hi. Could you share those ideas somehow? Draw sketches, illustrations, or explain them verbally?

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

I hunted down some screen shots of Poky, Angstrom and GPE. These arnt even close to what I was talking about either, but maybe this will give you a better idea of what theyd look like Bree, though I can't atest to how they run.

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6869195570.html
^-- Poky

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverswine/tags/angstrom/
^-- Angstrom

http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/gallery/gal...&id=port_24090
^-- GPE

One of my ideas is to have the screen nearly clutterfree. No bars or anything, there would be the usual nessecary icons at the top, though maybe theyd look better centered. On the far left, far right, and bottom of the screen would be transparent tabs, not sure of the lables yet, but maybe one is called Control, on is called Applications and one is called Games. Tapping one of these tabs would cause the tab to slide up (or right, or left, depending on which tab) and display sort of like... a drawer of icons, and youd just tab whichever one you wanted to launch the application. The advantage to this is that you could do it with either the stylus, or even just using the d-pad, and theres no lame menus to flip through. Plus its quicker to get to what you want. Also leaves more room for whatever you want to put on your desktop, cpu status bars, clocks, what have you. I'm not positive what to do about the minimized windows yet, but maybe put them at the top of the screen with the battery icon and stuff. It might work better if I showed you, I'll try to do a few diagrams when I get home.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Yes, giving ragnar input has potential. ;)

Anyway, I started a "perfect UI" thread here a while back that got pretty interesting (and a bit heated). Maybe you could contribute to that discussion, Firebird.

(hi ragnar!)

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Hello Texrat. :)

Yeah, I should recheck that thread again. All ideas are certainly welcome. Now quickly looking at Poky / Angstrom / GPE doesn't really ... blow my mind away. :)

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

I think what he is looking for is something like fluxbox window manager. I too would like to see that as well

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

There's certainly nothing stopping anyone writing a new full-screen new UI, possibly based on "whizzy" UI principles and effects like the iPhone.

In many ways, this is what the future of Canola is half-promising (will it deliver, we'll have to wait and see...)

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Canola is teh sex. ;)

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

I really like the UI design that Ubuntu Mobile is working on. See the images at UI wiki.

I see some similarities between what the Ubuntu folks are working on and what has been done with Canola. I'd really like to see something like this for IT. I've only had my n800 since last week but I've already started work on theming it to look somewhat like the Mobile Ubuntu wiki. I've never done this kind of work before though, so I'm learning as I go along (like FirebirdFeuervogel, I'm a graphic designer and I haven't done any UI theming before). There are aspects of the current IT2007 UI that don't work for me though and it would be nice to have an alternative.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Remember, that's Hildon under the hood, so... ;)

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Hmmm, do i see some similarities between Canola and Ubuntu?

I guess that's a coincidence?

Ton.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

The Ubuntu wiki page also gives you step-by-step instructions on how to recreate the same UI on an existing Hildon install.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Aye up chaps,

First post in this forum.

I recently got my 770 and I love the beast. Sure, it's not the best in the range but it does the job.

Wanting to change the appearance and interaction I started toying with openbox, etc. but they are oriented to desktops therefore the interaction with the tablet is somewhat cumbersome.

I agree that a new approach would be very nice, in fact, I've been looking for a project to start coding for the tablet and this might actually be it.

Needless to say, I'm no graphics designer, more like a programmer (and even bad at that) but I'm willing to put the effort. So, could someone please direct me to a thread where the action is? Or maybe a project I can join and start contributing?

From the top of my head, the Ubuntu UI looks nice, I don't know about the interaction because I haven't tested it (if that's even possible). Still, the iphone approach seems to the be the preferred one for this type of device and I agree (until something better appears).

Anyway, cheerio!

U

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Wait'll Karel Jansens shows up... you guys talking of putting the iPhone <spit> interface on an IT!

I'd like something more finger-friendly; the problem, though, is many apps are not designed to display well smaller than the non-fullscreen size. So it'll be difficult to make a bunch of apps work well if you reduce either width (below about 700px) or especially height (below about 400px for some apps, others respect the stylus-board and display fine at ~300px).
I don't want an iCandy interface on my N800. I'm after more functionality, which is not what sets the iPhone <spit> apart. A different sort of finger-interface would be nice, but it's seriously difficult at this point to make it work well with old apps. When the N900 comes out with a 1024x800 screen, such changes can be made. (You guys are working on that now, right Ragnar?;))

Edit: forgot this part which I intended to include:
We don't want an iInterface for our ITs because:

• We don't have tiny screens (so pinch-zooming and panning aren't as necessary)
• We don't have real multi-touch (so pinch-zooming is not as easily possible)

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Where? I've been on this page a few times, and I'd personally love to take my hand at this as my first exercise in digging into Linux. Like the OP and a few others, I'm not the greatest programmer, but the UI play could be fun.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Read this:

http://www.cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/

first. It's a comparison between the UI of the Best Handheld Ever <TM> and that of the Nokia Internet Tablets. It'll tach you what Nokia did wrong (and the very few things they accidentally got right).

If you've never actually owned a Newton, read the article twice.

Edit: Also, don't forget to read this:

http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/2007trip/

It's a bit outdated (especially the remarks about mplayer), but it's a fun (in a self-mutilating sort of way) read with lots of information for the budding UI designer.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

We don't?
We don't?
Sounds like you speaking for the whole NIT community.
I'm all for an iInterface, or any interface for that matter.
I'm guessing right now, but I think a we statement had to be made about not needing a descent paint application. which is why we still don' t have a descent paint application.

I don't mean no harm by this quote on your statement.
I just think when We speak of not needing or needing something on the tablet a (I) should be used.

Maybe a pole should be started.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Perhaps it would have been better if I had said "An iInterface is unusable for us because:"? After all, there are probably some who wish they had an unusable interface...

I'm not speaking for the NIT community, I'm speaking for the group of people who have not hacked a low-res multi-touch display into their NIT. There's probably a large amount of overlap between these groups, however.

The iPhone/iPod Touch are very different devices from the ITs, and re-implementing their interface would result in seriously poor usability; it would under-utilize the incredible resolution, and be awkward to get around in because some key gestures are not practically implementable.

You may notice that when I was discussing the eye-candy aspect, I said I don't want it -- because we don't all have the same preferences.
When I started talking about concrete facts which would make something unusable, I said we, because (AFAIK), we do all have the same hardware (in the respects I was discussing).

You seem to imply your tablet does not have an interface? I guess you must be in that awkward phase where the old screen has been removed, but you don't have the low-res multi-touch one hooked up yet? The ITs have an interface, just not one you're real happy with. But any interface? I'll bet I could make one you'd not be "all for".
There are some Nokia folks around who can probably answer this one better, but I seriously doubt that one post on a public forum suggesting whether "we" or "I" don't need no steenking paint program is the cause of this.

Tried tuxpaint yet? It's not precisely a "serious" program, but it does everything of MS paint, and lots more.


Not sure what you mean by starting a "pole". You mean a poll regarding whether we want the iPhone/iPod touch interface on our tablets, or regarding whether it is acceptable to use "we" when referring to issues regarding our common hardware platform? Either way, I think all users on the forums are able to create polls, so have at it. (Not sure, as I have yet to even start a thread, so far.)

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

2 Karel Jansens.
I've read both of your essays and deffinnetly agree with you in most of aspects. I have many thoughts about Maemo UI design, not like "this is crap, that is crap, this should be iPhonelike" but (2 my mind of course) easy to make and it will deffinetely raise the usability of ITT's to the new level. But I dunno where to post or write or speak or something else. Maybe we can combine our thoughts (your's up to date and my which I can make) and make some oficcial document, that will be really helpful for Maemo UI team. Well, something like that.

And of course anone else can participate, but with real deal and project/design or anything else, that can be viewed.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Dude! they're not my essays! (seriously, I cannot hope to ever thread in Sean Luke's footsteps)

And I (and probably Sean Luke as well) have pointed Nokia's attention to these documents. Their only reaction sofar has been to do exactly the opposite of Sean's propositions. And while not very hopeful, at least it's quite clear where Nokia stands in regards to intelligent UI design (it's largely a whole-heartedly "F**k you, user!").

For the Itablets to ever become successful pocketable computers, I believe Penguinbait's method is the way to go: Ditch as much of the fugly Hildon as you can and dare, and open the suckers up.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

I think, that if you have shown that pages to nokia — their reaction is totaly understandable. They have limits of time for OS developing and I don't think that they have free time to find a sense in that "document". What I propose is to create 100% clear document, which will be created by whole (who want's) community, listing the wannabe changes in very intuitive way "before-howto-after". Nicely designed and easy readable. Then I think we'll have a chance to change something with power of Community.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

For being The Best Handheld Ever, and created by Apple, I find it a bit suprising how little Apple then utilized elements from the Newton design in their iPhone/iPod Touch designs. Karel, do you have any thoughts on this?

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

the newton was not a jobs project. hell i think he even was the one to pull the plug on it.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

I think the key to success of UI is not to be "like %insert device name%. iPhone's interface have crappy moments to, and i even don't sureabout their ammount. Glossy and shiny cover helds poor inner side. Like 4 different styles of app decoration, stupid and not switchable sms "chat" and so and so on. I think we must just sit down and think, what will be really useful and handy and make a concept to send it to te Nokia. Not "we should do here like it made in iPhone" but "we should do here this, this and that." Maybe Nokia will hear our calls :)

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Thoughts? Not so much. Facts, yes.

The Newton was created and perfected in the Great Interregnum of the Nineties, when His Holiness the Jobbes was ousted from the inner halls of Apple.

The first thing Jobs did when he came back was to nix the Newton, claiming people needed keyboards. There was no clear economical reason to axe the Newton project (Newtons had finally evolved into a near-perfect state, Apple had spun off the project into a separate company, but Jobs pulled everything back into Apple, just to can it).

I have it on good authority that Jobbo is a petty, vindictive egomaniac who, even more than Billy Gate$, needs to be King of the World to be able to get off.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Back on the UI subject... I'm gonna propose something radical.

Given the tablets' understanding of sensitivity, maybe it would be beneficial to not just separate click actions by time (short vs long press), but by sensitivity. By that I mean a light touch (in the capacity of a PC mouse's hover function) which pops up explanations of icons, and/or options, whereas a heavy press acts as a click. Yes, I know right button is simulated in some cases by a long press, but it's not fully utilized and I'm wondering if this alternative approach might be better...

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Sounds workable in theory (but not for me, though!). One caveat: the Itablet's sensitivity appears to be very narrow-banded; that is to say: there is not much between the lightest and the heaviest registration. Maybe this can be adapted (a logarithmic formula of some sorts?) but if not, it's going to be one b*tch of a UI.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Aye up chaps!

First of all, glad to see the thread is alive.

One thing I noticed in a couple of posts was that people said "oh, let's write this down and suggest it to Nokia". If I get to say anything about this, it is: never mind Nokia. The community (we as in whoever is interested) can do it. If it becomes something good Nokia will notice it. Who'd want to wait for Nokia to notice a draft anyway (even if the draft is full of facts).

TBHWY, we could start anytime now. Another user (sorry, can't quote names) said something along these lines: follow PB approach an open the sucker. We, I'm all for this.

Inside these beasts there is a Linux distro. They are fully customisable, aren't they? Can we ditch Hildon et al? Most certainly. There are millions of lightweight window managers, etc. out there that are free (as in speech) same for eye candy and all. It should be doable. What we programmers really need then is just someone with a decent sense of UI interaction and a good artist.

Cheers chaps,

U

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

And here I am xD
Just kidding :) Well, your, radical point of view is right, but I've suggested slightly different thing. To point Maemo team the improvements of current interface, instead of creating whole new one. Improvements, that can be easily done without detonating whole building. Right now I don't have very critical points in current hildon interface, that I can't use at all or use with some shaman moves. It's all getting better and better and better with each release and titanic work is visible. But you can't see ALL of aspects of interface that you're creating. Remember, that Maemo is created by Maemo team, not fricking whole Nokia. iPhone's OS is created by hundreds of specialists;. and even it has faulties and crappy moments. So, I think Community can replace some of specialists and make concepts of really handy interfaces, using CURRENT environment. Something like that.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

I've had Palms for a long time - started with a visor, then a Sony Clie, then a T3. I like them, bit dated, but they work. I got a keyboard for the T3, never used it, wife used it for her M505, then M515, she's sad it doesn't work on her TX.

I have a Zaurus 3100, I love it, the clamshell + touchscreen, it's a great linux hackers tool. Have used Cacko, Angstrom/GPE. With Cacko I used both touch screen and keyboard, with Angstrom I mostly used the keyboard because GPE just didn't really work that well! When I tried a Zaurus 6000 I found its small keyboard to be frustrating and a nuisance! For both zauruses, the keyboard was essential because the UIs weren't well designed!

The N800, for me, actually works quite well, it has quite a lot of quirks but you get used to them quickly. The screen layout wastes a lot of valuable pixels, the on-screen menus and the menu button are particularly odd. Some control panel apps are not too well thought out - the network one is particularly bad. However, you can pick up a tablet and quickly make it do stuff, you're not fighting it too much. I don't think it's broken badly, it needs cleaning up, rationalising. Hildon might not be the best, but at least things get a global style.

For nearly three months mid 2007 I used macbookpro with OSX, I liked it, but I found the enforced styles too much, irritating! I didn't like the dock, wanted a trivial start menu, didn't like the animations even though I turned off everythign I could. I now have a Toshiba running linux and a very simple KDE theme (though I did try compiz fusion just to see what the fuss was about, hated it after 5 minutes).

OK, my point? A good UI doesn't get in the way of what you want to do! After the fun of the "bling" in OSX and Vista and KDE, if you're focusses on tasks, you want something that's simple, plain, rational/consistent and tidy!

I came to this thread wondering if I could remove part of the hildon interface to simplify it - save some screen real estate. Didn't mean to rant for so long, sorry.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Amen (to teh first paragraph).
For those of us not as familiar with Linux, the second paragraph is something that I echo in a sense. If there was someone (some program or tutorial) that would lead us to being able to understanding the UI underpinnings so that we can exercise our UI-wants then it would be great.

At the same time, there are some general things that do need to be done that some kind of study/document/attention-getting-document that whomever's in charge can look at (and we know they are looking at it) and really consider and work towards implementing - I know this is being done in reference to this and other threads, but wanted to put it out there.

That all being said, I would hope that the next tablet does hit better than a home run in this area. I personally think its ready for the kind of impact that people would respond very favorably to it, but offputting UI/UX items will make it fall hard and fast.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

interesting article on designing a ui for the small screen
http://www.taptu.com/blog/2008/01/08...-from-scratch/

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Designing a website UI and designing OS UI is whole different things. And I haven't found there any unic info bout mobile UI prototyping or anything else)

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?
 

Doesn't have to be that way, though. The convergence of both has been going on for years. There's almost no noticeable difference now to casual users between an advanced internet environment and a local net environment.