Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

5 Floating Android Apps... Just looking for opinions from the Maemo community.

Especially Estel's.

Thanks.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

there is a thread mentioning similar features on the GNote2... IMO, those are more impressive than these apps especially with the sidebar for quick access to a second app for overlaying/split-screening onto the first app...

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I agree, the split-screen multitasking is nothing short of amazing on the gnote2. It goes way beyond what was possible on any mobile device before.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Its not new, we can do it on KDE for tablet + MeeGo (MER)

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Real multitasking is not about the task-switching UI, it's about who controls which processes are allowed to continue running in the background. If the OS terminates processes that the user started without confirmation from the user, then that OS does not provide real multitasking.

End of.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Real multitasking is not about background processes. It's about interaction between the UI, user and number of different tasks performed between these two in a simple, fast and natural way.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Speaking of which, would it be that hard to write a daemon probing the system (or even parsing htop or similar output) for heavy tasks and when certain threshold is reached/crossed display a notification: Hey dude, your computing device is heavy on tasks, is any of those unnecessary? with ignore/never_come_back option of course for real multitasking? On maemo you'd just need to assign it higher priority than any user-started app, not sure how to prevent it from being a batt sucker though

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Nothing new here. N900 and N9 can do it since always. Normally Android suspends the running app when another app (activity) is activated, just like iOS and WP. However, you can create background services on Android and do whatever you want, which is something iOS and WP won't allow. (and why shouldn't buy those, amongst many, many other reasons).

On the N9/00 apps will run in the background, unless the developer decides otherwise. Just like a normal PC (However, Windows 8 is also idiotic in that regard). On the N9 at least you can even distinguish between active, visible in the taskswitcher and running in background, so you can actually see multiple apps doing stuff at the same time in the task switcher.

@Chuck Norris: it is about background tasks. The ability to stream music to the radio, running Drive in the background with spoken navigation while your spouse is browsing the web on one and same device.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

That's a load of waffle. It can't be real multitasking if a task is closed without user consent. Simples.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Where you can play audio and videos together other than maemo5 through media player and km player ,two songs for example ,together ??? i really dont know about n9 but does it happen on any other device other than N900 ?

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I remember this cool feature in my N8: let's say I was listening to music, then suddenly I get a call. The music pauses. Then, while being on a call, I can minimize the call window, and go back to music player and resume the music WHILE the call is still going on. Due to this, BOTH you and the other person can listen to the music through the receiver.. and it was high quality sound. I found this feature really amazing.

So far, I didn't see any other device do it, apart from my N8 and old N82. Which means.. Our old Symbian phones could do it.

Even the N9 can't do such a thing. Damn.

But yeah, this doesn't define true multitasking completely.. probably partly for one particular thing only. I just thought it was a cool feature, that's all.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Don't know.
I can watching the video and browsing the web at the same time at my galaxy note. My n900 can't do that, which to me is better than playing one song while watching video.

Always these same trade offs. Where is the device with everything ;)

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I reckon it actually can, just not with the standard software. But perhaps, with some gstreamer-magic, it can be done. It's not that the device won't let you, but at most that it simply doesn't work.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

@Dave999 I don't see the point of that. At any instant of time, you're either browsing or watching a video. No one does BOTH at the SAME time.

Unless your eyes are like this: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/fo...ach=7152;image

Then maybe, yeah :P

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Not sure if it has a lot to do with multitasking, on meamo you'd just need to define sink(s) for the audio to get that. Unless it kills mic in such config, but audio 'controls' (yeah, not really controls, but you have the option to control how audio is/goes unlike in symbian or other os) are totally open. Check alsa-policy thread (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83447).

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Yes, I figured that as well.. because when you're on a call and try to play music, it gives a pop-up saying "Can't play the song." So it looks like they prevented this feature on purpose. Which means that it's very much possible.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Yup, that pretty much sumps up the whole "multi-tasking" argument. In other devices.. you have to rely on the manufacturer or OS provider to come up with a "new" feature that allows "multitasking" so to speak.. where as in an open-source community, most likely we can just do it ourselves. In other words: Impossible is nothing here.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

s/Where/Why/

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I think you've stumbled upon a potential annoyance where you can override the pause feature of music on your Symbian based phone and called it multi-tasking. That's still task switching in my personal book but with an override of a control that's meant to stop media from playing.

A bunch of specialized apps that float above the main OS isn't really multi-tasking in my book. It's attempting to be desktop multi-tasking, which I'd love, but in a mobile OS, those apps are still clunky. And I own Overskreen Browser on my Android tablets.

I think we're still way away from true multi-tasking, and after much thought, the N900 got it mostly right since it didn't just halt the apps in the background - they could keep going, all but music, whereas other operating systems seem to halt the background apps in a state.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Most of you seem to fail to understand WHY iOS and Android enforce a very strict control over what runs in the background.

Just search this forum for misterious battery drains on the N900 and N9. There is a tradeoff here, they restricted background processes (you CAN run bakcground tasks like downloads/uploads, music player, anything), so that amateur programmers creating bad apps don't waste battery power.

On Maemo, it was easy for a badly written app to consume all the battery easily, because it could run in the background without any safeguards.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

@gerbick I think the term "multitasking" is commercialized and destroyed by manufactures. Everyone is using it in advertising and promotion without actually providing the REAL thing. So yeah, we are pretty far from that on a a mobile device for an end user.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

herp: You seem to fail to understand that iOS appstore has QA that should prevent that vs devel here. They don't have a choice afaik. No friendly popup: would you like multitasking (dangers include our QA doing a shitty job...) or do you prefer dumbos?

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

@herpderp maybe that's true, but I don't see any significant numbers in battery lives of Android or iPhones in general. I don't see how it's a plus point.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

There's always jailbreak. There's more than just a few ways to multi-task on iOS.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

How does jailbreaking make iOS multitasking OS? Serious question. Just allows you to run programs that didn't pass QA and they are not killed in background??? One could write task-switcher for jailbroken iOS like in maemo with running apps having small auto-refreshing mini-windows?

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

The decision originally to limit multi-tasking to serial tasking was mainly because of RAM limitations on the iPhone 3GS. But after the jailbreak, the OS can handle simultaneous - it could if Apple turned it on, but didn't due to how they cannot control how third party apps regard memory usage and start/stop/resume commands (I'm sorta paraphrasing a **** ton of dev notes and observations here) from the OS.

There was the one I had used without issue on the 3GS - CardSwitcher which brought WebOS-like multi-tasking and switching to the iPhone. I did so without issue until Skype came out, that thing would lock your machine upon switch.

It's not that jailbreaking adds multi-tasking. It actually allows multi-tasking and in a manner that Apple doesn't tend to allow since they cannot promise a (and now I'm using Apple speak here) uniform user experience. Thus, jailbreak removes that limitation.

Sad, but true.

I hope that answers your question.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Thanks, very informative. Actually seems like if devs had strict rules on developing background running apps with QA they have in place for istore this should be a very good os for real multitasking. Not sure what they cannot promise if on under-specced N900 running 10 apps simultaneously doesn't seem to cause a problem (ok, not flash-playing apps at the same time, but having calc/notes/sms/phone/reader/rss/xterm/mc/htop/photos and few more open at the same time has insignificant impact on N900 performance for me, maybe they idle properly, no idea)

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Remember that whole issue with the EULA change disregarding non-Objective C built applications (think Unity3D, Adobe AIR, PhoneGap, et al) because they didn't regard the proper OS calls - the ones they wouldn't let third party apps get to because they didn't want (and I'm adding my own commentary here) to take the time to grant those frameworks access to all of the API's, document those API's and then test access and success on those API's.

Anyway, I find Apple's QA restrictive because it allows them to avoid dealing with too many variables. Something that the N900 and so forth deal with differently and (honestly) way better than Apple.

Dunno. I have a lot of opinions, but not sure if any one system gets it more right than the other. Just go with the one that does what you want. Or, see if there's an alternative within that OS and hack/tweak/jailbreak as you see fit. That's what I did with my Android tablets (custom ROM's that gave me what I wanted), iOS phones (past tense) and jailbreak them to do what I wanted, N9 tweaks that added the functions I thought should have been there all along.

Again, my take. Apple could, but they seem lazy. Just like Microsoft in that regard. Capable OS's, but they limit it because that's easier.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Just out of curiosity, do you know what wp8 multitasking is like? Is it only c# apps? And totally out of a different bucket, is android ndk just like compiling on maemo? Wondering just in case Jolla doesn't deliver, 920 seems tempting for the phone/photo features, but I doubt I'll be able to run/compile progs on it. Also no idea on how to get native libux apps on android, after maemo expecting it to be nightmare. Sorry all for offtopic...

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Erm... I actually don't know yet. I just accepted delivery of a Win8 machine (not WP8) and have yet to start looking into the development, multi-tasking and what not. I'm having to come back up to speed on the newest version of Visual Studio.

But with the differences in WP8 going all the way down to the kernel, I just don't know yet. There's a few devs on these boards that will probably be better at answering this right now. When I find out more, I'll gladly update you. I just don't know enough - tackling BB Playbook via Adobe AIR and Tizen development at the same time to see if it's worth my time while biding my time for Qt 5 (final) and seeing if that's my path or not going forward - or even if I'll continue development, might switch to UI/UX and back to graphics and use that degree instead.

Anyway, I'm sorry for contributing to the off-topic nature of these talks too all.

Ignore us?

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Because they are dumbed down mobile OS made to be popular among millions of dumbed down users. Goodbye real multitasking and even real state of last used softwares, after all, only us geeks know what they mean.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I still have my Psion Revo+ working : 16MB of RAM/disk memory, about 100 installed softwares, full multitasking and visible file system, EPOC OS with micro-kernel, 2 years without rebooting even when I was developing (typing, compiling and testing) on it in OPL, qwerty keyboard way better than current smartphones.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

The programmers then knew how to code without so much bloat. Efficiency isn't practiced any longer by no means - why do it because the fast GPU, CPU and RAM combo can allow bad programmers to look halfway decent. Nor did your Psion (I SO wanted one!) have to deal with the same number of systems, 3D graphics, colors and what not that people expect now.

Still... that device was so ahead of its time man. People could learn so much from those "simpler" times.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

lol neckbeard snobbery...

and thats why this place will die an slow obscure death while he world moves on

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Since you're talking battery, those ads that appear in Android and iOS consume quite a lot of battery charge.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Sure, move out & on. And don't let the door hit you on your way out. We'll keep the house party running as long as it fits us :D
I enjoy the company of wise, smelly neckbeards more than pastures (worlds) full of playful, noisy, clueless kids. :cool:

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I am embarrassed to say i had to google "neckbeard".

As you were.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

No worries, I siried genius and got a neckbeard Einstein instead.What to believe, what to believe...

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Ever heard of the OOM-killer? :)

I've actually set overcommit_memory to 2 (and overcommit_ratio to 90) to make sure the kernel doesn't do any overbooking. But there's still a chance that the kernel might decide to kill a program without asking the user.