Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

You can pick a Lumia 800 up brand new and unlocked for £140 through Tesco Direct. Sold out right now, but they will be getting more stock in. It says a lot about Nokia and Windows Phone that less than 1 year after release, the cost of the flagship device goes from £400 to £140.

http://www.tesco.com/direct/tesco-mo...skuId=215-3542

The Windows Phone platform is burning.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Yes, it says: Windows Phone 7 phones aren't upgradable to Windows Phone 8, and Windows Phone 8 devices are about to become available.

"What maddness to so quickly abandon devices! Customers won't stay loyal having suffered such mistreatment," I exclaim as I survey my collection of Maemo Internet tablets and phones.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Nokia: Abandoning People

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Lumia 800 is a great little phone. does everything well and smooth

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Wow, what an accurate slogan !
If it were about "Connecting People" that would go hands-down to Apple who makes it seamless for Apple customers to benefit from their smart(restrained)phone.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

LOL :D :D

10chars.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

And there is precisely the difference between closed and open ecosystems.

Even though Nokia have abandoned Maemo, I can still make it do what I want, only the other day I was messing around with PHP and putting a webserver on my N900, I thought what a great idea to make it a backup to my primary web server, I had just had a power supply fail in my secondary server.

32gb of storage and all the openey goodness I want.

rgds

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

The 2 and a half year old Iphone 4 is still selling for £320 on the Apple store even though it is a technically inferior device to the Lumia 800 (camera, CPU and storage are miles behind the Lumia). The point I am making is that Nokia are selling a much more sophisticated device for half the price of the Iphone. Lumia sales must be bombing if they are having to cut the price so much to clear inventory.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

A smart CEO would have got safe-guards in his contract with M$ that if we have to cut our prices for a Tier 1 products within a x amount of time, M$ would be responsible as it would mean we are pushing your products against the tide...

An incompetent CEO would simply forget about such a thing...

A downright dumb CEO would sign that not only we don't ask you for compensation; we abandon any hopes of jumping ship if things get worst with you...


Elop, hats off to you!

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Well I was going to create a post along the lines of "this is just one store, does not reflect Nokias support". However after looking around at others stores it appears as though the Lumia 800 is on the clearance shelves elsewhere too...

Carphone warehouse: Free with £12.50 contract

NOKNOK: Lumia 800 white £159

Asda: Lumia 800 black £149

Looks like other retailers are dropping the prices too, maybe they are having their own little fire sales?

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Out of stock :eek: :eek:

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Yeah, at those prices you're going to have to be quick.

I'll admit that the Lumia does become an attractive phone when under the £150 mark.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

WP market share will explode :D

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Too bad those prices have yet to fully extend to the US - 489.99 USD at Expansys.

Amazon has a few from retailers that aren't fulfilled by Amazon - that equates to "not trusted" for the most part.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Nokia will also explode into bankruptcy. Selling a Lumia 800 for £149 (even before you strip out VAT, strip out retailer margin) and Nokia are taking a massive loss on Lumia devices.

Microsoft have enough cash to push WP in the long-term, but they will not be able to put out the fire which is burning Nokia to death.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Negative. This should have been done half a year ago. Nokia is dependent on the WP ecosystem to survive in the smartphone business. The short term profit from way too high priced Lumias (that didn't come anyway), is of no use to Nokia.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Are you being oblivious to how you cannot upgrade those phones and sooner than later Microsoft will also pull the rug from under those 7.5-7.8 phones too?

Seriously. Either you are the most daft person I've ever seen or the most successful astro-turfer I've ever seen.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

You will get limited upgrade. This happened with iPhone line up too. I have links 800 and its a great little phone that already received at least 3 updates. No reason to get disjointed over specc's cogent arguments

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Actually, the upgrades for the iPhone 3GS have gone up to iOS 6. That's their 3 version upgrade policy, implicit or not. The "limited" nature of their updates were originally surrounding hardware that was introduced in later iterations of the phone.

But core upgrades happened regardless. 7.5 to 7.8 is not a full upgrade. It's only the start screen. Perhaps some tweaks to IE. For what it is worth, it's a half-*** update. The Lumia 800 enjoyed a full upgrade to 7.5 from 7.x (can't remember the exact number). And from there, it'll get the aforesaid half-*** update to 7.8 but never to 8.0.

That's horrible no matter however you wish to spin it.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1iGMnJCW7E...1600/wanda.jpg
To call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people! I've known sheep that could outwit you. I've worn dresses with higher IQs. But you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

You missed the point. At this hour the price cut looks looser-ish, but that's only due to WP8 coming. A non-geek (normal person) will not see any difference between WP7.8 and WP8. To be honest there aren't much difference. All the goodies are there (in WP7.8) thanks to Nokia. The difference is purely academic at this point in time. A year from now the situation will be different of course, and the WP7.8 Lumias will start to fall behind. By that time the 800 is already two years old, so that is also only food for geekish-academic disputes with no relevance to the real world.

The main point is that every WP phone sold, is one less Android/iOS sold. I said the same thing half a year ago, the Lumias must be priced much cheaper if they are to be competitive. They have no real advantage other than being different, and that is not enough to compete when the price is equal. Nokia should focus on the ecosystem, not the profit margins of HW. It's a war of ecosystems, so fight the war!!

Now, if Nokia launched a WP8 with real PureView, that would make a difference. Such a phone could be priced at premium. As it stands today they have the best camera technology by miles, but are not doing ANYTHING to promote it. The 808s are not promoted anywhere, and there is no mention of any WP8 with 41 MP PureView so far.

Stupid moves by Nokia is nothing new. However, the situation today is that the iPhone 5 is falling behind. It has lost the edge and is just a ridiculously pricey gadget, good but nothing worth fighting over. The SGS3 is loosing ground. There exist a void right now, a void that WP will fill.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

N9 price drop is the same as Lumias.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

No. You've missed each and every point made by any sane person at this forum. But continue with your blinder-enabled rant...

Patently wrong. The moment a WP8 only game/application/feature comes out, the uninformed will know because they won't have it.

"Why doesn't that game work on my phone?"
"Because it's for phones with Retina Display® only."
"Why doesn't my phone have a retainer display?"
"Because your phone wasn't sold with it..."

The above conversation actually happened at an AT&T store and dude only had the original iPhone when asking about certain things and why he didn't have it. Even the uneducated understand the word "no".

Please don't make me wrong.

Again, wrong. I could list a whole bunch of nerdy/geeky reasons, but I'll just list one that makes the most sense... it means a phone less than a year old has no support from a software company that goes by the name of Microsoft. The developers - I'm actually one - have been goaded to produce only WP8 applications and worry less about the WP7. Same for Windows 8 versus Windows 7 (although not as explicit).

List the goodies. Please. I double dog dare you.

List out the differences. Please. I triple dog dare you.

Good money states it will be less than a year. It took less than a year between the very 1st gen to 1.5 gen (previously labeled 2nd gen) WP7 phones to stop getting certain things like updates, certain games, et al.

And already dumped 1 year into its lifespan. Only the N900 and N9 can claim that.

Oh wait...

Arguable. But that's a very bad mindset. Because in 12-18 months, they will be looking at their replacement. And guess what?

Microsoft left them high and dry way early in their contract. Why would they go back to that abuse? You'd have to be something like... a Maemo fan to continue down that short lifespan support abuse.

Oh wait...

And they weren't. Now they're priced where they will sell. At the very end of their life cycle. That's rather C-A-T smart.

Nope. The next version of iOS/Android or even BlackBerry will fill that void. WP8 is not an option for 97% of the rest of us. And that's pretty damn sad it cannot even appeal to a fringe group like Maemo/MeeGo folks.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

NOKIA's gross margin on smart devices last quarter was 1.7%. ONE POINT SEVEN PER CENT!

The slashing of the price of the 800 is not a promotion or a calculated marketing strategy it is an admission they are redundant stock and NOKIA will take any sum, no matter how piffling, to try and turn them back into cash. NOKIA desperately needs cash. What do you think NOKIA's gross margin will be this quarter, now they are having to sell their WPx devices at LESS THAN COST?

This it is yet another manifestation of the gross incompetence at NOKIA's helm.

You do get the basic concept that businesses exist to make a profit, right?

Why on earth should NOKIA focus on the 'ecosystem' not the margins on their hardware when Elop has already handed over NOKIA's 'ecosystem' lock, stock and barrel to Microsoft? How the feck are NOKIA going to make a profit out of that?

Samsung are just about to announce record profits, do you think that came from their 'ecosystem' or their hardware?

Does Apple give their hardware away at cost?

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Provide a link please, the cheapest one I can find is more than double the price.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Gerb et al, quasi academic geek disputes may be fun for some, but it has no relevance to the real world. The switch to WP makes sense ONLY in an ecosystem perspective. It makes no sense what so ever to switch to WP to sell phones at premium prices to make large profit from HW. No sense at all.

To profit on HW you need something special like an undisputable top dog like the sgs3 or an icon like the iPhone. A 808 running Android would be such a device, an 808 running WP would also be such a device, hell the 808 running belle is such a device, and it is not even promoted by Nokia anywhere.

WP8 vs WP7.8 please, get a life. It makes no difference other than bad mouthing PR from the blogosphere (which is bad enough, but more of a nuisance than a real worry)

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Specc has a point, I think the only way to make a smartphone viable is to build a viable ecosystem. One that supports developers, one they want to work on, one that basically either pays the bills or allows an itch to be scratched.

Opensource allows developers to scratch an itch in a way that cannot be readily achieved with a closed ecosystem if that ecosystem is not already established like the IOS environment. Problem is that a new closed ecosystem will not make headway against the more open and established competitor such as Android, it will always be still born.

If not to scratch an itch then but to pay the bills the developer wants, needs, to know there is both longevity to the ecosystem and a wide customer base willing to make a return on the development effort. Microsoft demonstrably does not have a track record of providing this, especially with WP7 and Microsofts legacy desktop strength just doesn't help in this arena.

The profit for the provider of the OS platform or hardware is largely irrelevant from this perspective. Their sole role in this is to make the very best platform necessary to support the end users and their primary means to achieve this is only through these third party volunteer developers and this job is simply made infinitely more difficult if the hardware vendor has little say in the way the OS ecosystem is provided and maintained.

The only other developers that might be interested would be corps wanting a platform to promote their wares but that doesn't make for an attractive end user device, (unless Angry Birds is sufficient).

So a limited ecosystem from a new contender like "WPanything plus anyTin" will have an uphill struggle for many years and dropping support for versions after such a short time is only going to make it harder to justify developing for.

So on balance, I can see why Specc believes that quasi academic geek disputes really don't have relevance in Speccs world.

However since Specc is so ready to dismisses the very geeks and insult the very developers who are the only people whose mindshare is absolutely mandatory to help build a successful ecosystem then "WPanything plus anyTin" is already destined to fail at a fundamental level that is entirely non-technical and entirely predictable.

You only have to look at Specc to know that to be true.

rgds

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Microsoft now owns the 'ecosystem' not NOKIA, so tell me how does NOKIA make a profit if it's not by selling hardware?

What business experience do you have in 'the real world'?

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Agreed, it is becoming increasingly obvious that Microsoft only see Nokia as an entity that can provide a reasonable stop-gap Windows Phone experience until Microsoft themselves decide to make their own tablet and phone devices.

Microsoft are some of the most ruthless operators in the computer industry and on the off-chance that Nokia actually gain some success with their Windows Phones, then they will cut the legs from under them.

Elop has backed Nokia into a corner. It's too late to revive Symbian and Meego, it's too late to start developing Android devices, they are stuck with Windows Phone. If Windows Phone fails, then Nokia fail. If Windows Phone succeeds, then Microsoft will sleep move in and eat Nokia's lunch. No matter matter what Nokia do, their days of leading the mobile industry are over.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

This really is straightforward. If MS sold phones themselves, the HW would only be a mean to an end; the WP ecosystem or rather the MS ecosystem. How do you do that? By selling OK but mediocre devices (spec vise) at premium price? I don't think so, but that is what MS/NOK is trying to do. The right way is to flood the market with relatively inexpensive devices and provide 1 or 2 top dogs to pull the pack. The top device has to be absolutely top of the line, something that sets a standard. The Lumia 920 has some top dog features, but is it enough?

The only way for Nokia to survive in the smartphone business is if WP is successful. Obviously pri one is to make WP successful, it doesn't happen by itself, and certainly not by selling overpriced HW.

It's like Nokia haven't learned a single thing from the whole Symbian/Maemo crash. They still believe an ecosystem somehow by magic just grows from nothing. The ecosystem has to be the single focus, it is the only origin. Once the ecosystem is in place, THEN the ball starts rolling. Then they can start making profit on HW, but only by providing at least one undisputable top dog. They only need to do it.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Symbian/Maemo didn't crash, they were pushed. They were doing just fine as they were.

Personally I predict Microsoft WPanything is not going to grow into an ecosystem of any consequence.

rgds

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

This is why I am right and you sir, are wrong. I see things as they are, you see things as you would like them to be. The crash of Symbian is the biggest crash of any OS. It crashed because Nokia didn't manage to make it competitive in the new world of easy going touch screen smartphones.

Maemo/Meego crashed because it had no ecosystem backup or direction even though the concept is excellent. It could have survived as a niche, but even Jolla has got this megalomaniac world market leader wannabe bug in it's veins. So Jolla will also crash and burn.

Having said that, I think I actually will get myself an 808. The last pure enthusiast phone left today.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

In my reality you are wrong sir, and I am right.

In my reality, Symbian crashed becuase elop told the world it was going to be dropped.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/9162...estroyed-nokia

but hey, maybe I just imagined it, who can tell, perhaps its just me and you are actually right.

Maybe the stock price will help support your position.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-lost/1619827/

Nope I guess not. unlucky. I'll stick with my reality thanks, yours suks.

rgds

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Symbian very successfully competed in the 'new world of easy going touch screen smartphones' right up until Elop deprecated it, that is a verifiable, undeniable fact - just look at NOKIA's sales figures right up until the 'burning platforms' fiasco. While you're at it take a look at the margins too, then compare both with what NOKIA are doing now.

I realise from your previous posts you are utterly clueless about business (too) but it would still be good practice for you to give it a go.


MeeGo would've had the same 'ecosystem' as Symbian and Meltemi, an 'ecosystem' controlled by NOKIA and from which they could profit.


That remains to be seen, from what has been revealed so far Jolla seem to have a much more coherent and realistic plan than Elop ever provided NOKIA.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

So... that's all you can say? Really?

A condescending tone isn't really helping your so-called argument. So let's just put it simply.

The real world has not bought into Windows Phone as a platform at all. Less than 10% share in all markets worldwide despite trying their best, which is lesser than Windows Mobile's share after 2010.

Reality has shown that since the introduction of other operating systems, those aforesaid operating systems have grown at the expense of Windows Phone/Mobile's share.

So this grand scheme of Microsoft... the one so rooted in reality. When will it finally yield more than just 5% of the total (worldwide) share of the smartphone market?

Oh, and please answer my prior questions. You can do it dawg.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

In fairness, Symbian was under massive pressure even before the "Burning Platform" speech. Sales of the flagship N8 (which was a great device) were miles behind the Iphone and the Samsung Galaxy (which was rubbish). What Elop did, was to take a platform that was dying, and kill it overnight. It was foolish, because developers gave up on it instantly and carriers didn't want to know about Nokia devices.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Totally playing devil's advocate here... but Symbian was selling well but not at the same clip as they were before since attention was shifting towards Android and iPhone faster than the updates to Symbian were coming.

The burning platform was indeed a fiasco. Something that hastened Nokia's downfall. Blame the Osbourne Effect for that - announce something is coming to replace your just released product. A product that didn't come out for almost a year after that statement.

Anyway, Symbian was on a downfall. Fast in all areas but Asia and most of Europe. It was a non-factor in Japan (Nokia has been a non-player there for ages) and mostly it was relegated to lower-priced, lower tiered phones than most Android and iPhone purchases. With Android going down in price and trending that way, Symbian was bound to lose even more - which it did.

The burning platform was, for all intents and purposes, more about the inner-issues within Nokia and their choice of "religion" of where they put the majority of their money into than it was about Symbian going away, imho. Especially when he needed to make everybody into one religion, Microsoft... that ledger leaked to accomplish just that.

And it worked. No more MeeGo. No more Harmattan. Less Symbian investments. And two iterations - WP7 and WP8 - of Microsoft and a stock price to reflect that dedication.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

The N8 was released in October 2010, the closing of the Symbian Foundation was announced the following month and Symbian was publicly deprecated early in Q1 2011. i.e. the N8 had a very small window of opportunity to be successful in.

Not only that but it had a 680Mhz processor and 256 MB of RAM (and that was a big improvement over NOKIA's previous Symbian devices) whereas the Galaxy, which you have chosen as a suggested alternative, had a 1.2GHz processor and 1GB of RAM. The difference in grunt power was HUGE but the difference in performance wasn't.

NOKIA's problem at the time was not Symbian, in fact Symbian was it's saving grace, what other multitasking OS would have run so well on such modest hardware? The problem was their hardware specs looked feeble and their designs (N8 excluded?) were dreadfully bland.

Now NOKIA are finally getting close to their rivals in terms of hardware and design but unfortunately their CEO has lumbered them with an unloved OS.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Just to clarify, sales of Symbian devices were not falling they were just not growing as fast as the overall market. In 2010 NOKIA's smart device sales were UP 36% year on year and NOKIA originally announced they could have sold even more if it weren't for component shortages.

It is true to say Symbian would have been discontinued either way though, by all accounts if the CEO's job had gone to Anssi Vanjoki instead of Elop he would have phased out Symbian for MeeGo, but at least that way NOKIA would retain control of their own devices and any services surrounding them and there would have been an easier migration path for users and developers.

Re: Nokia Dumping Lumia 800's
 

Symbian apologists everywhere here. its liked the militants hiding from overwhelming defeat and recounting what could have or should have been.

Symbian was dead. whether additional 2 years would have helped, who knows. it takes resources to maintain a dead platform. i used N8, and oh my, what abomination compared to anything else. Stop wasting your time on revision of history. Elop was brought to kill Symbian and forge the future. Finns killed it, Elop was the executioner. No tears to shed for a platform that was surpassed in every respect.