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- - iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=87479)

xxxxts

2012-10-20 13:04

iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Well, I already wrote two threads about my transition to my iPhone. This one is going to be the most difficult to write: the look back...

Since I have gotten my iPhone 4S all those months ago, I never once put my N900 in a drawer, it sat on my nightstand. Proud. It was exactly the way I wanted it. It had a sense of pride about it. Like Full Metal Jacket, "This is my N900 there are many like it, but this one is mine."

So late at night as I decided to boot up for the fist time in months it hit me that I was an iPhone guy now...

While I love the N900 and the tweakability, openess, customization of Maemo, etc. it just was too slow. It could not compete with the iPhone 4, let alone the iPhone 4S - in almost every aspect.

But holding my iPhone - I feel no sense of pride in what I have done with my purchase. It feels cold, soulless, one might even say Orwellian.

But hypothetically speaking, if the N900 magically got the all the hardware upgrades that the iPhone 4 has - I still couldn't go back. For one simple reason: the iPhone just works.

If Apple got together with the Maemo programmers to not only upgrade their obviously outdated UI and make it open source and factor root access, it would be the perfect device.

It saddens me I can never go back to a world without iCloud (taking a photo/video and automatically having it on desktop when I walk though my front door), Siri, the Google Voice app, banking apps, YouTube anywhere, etc.

But I think there is a silver lining - Apple has gotten cocky, the iPhone 5 in my opinion is nothing special and iOS 6 is a disgrace. I hope that an open *nix based OS will take off from where Apple left off. Maybe someday...

I will return...

Wikiwide

2012-10-20 13:35

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxxts (Post 1282936)

It saddens me I can never go back to a world without iCloud (taking a photo/video and automatically having it on desktop when I walk though my front door), Siri, the Google Voice app, banking apps, YouTube anywhere, etc.

I am an opponent of Cloud. For instance, I find it comforting to know what photographs I manually move from phone to desktop, and how I move them, and where they are stored. Occasionally, I wish to have my mail server, so that my emails would not depend on Gmail/Yahoo/Hormail/whatever - but it's too troublesome.
Saera is Maemo's answer to Siri. Though I am not an active user.
Somehow, I don't watch Youtube, much; if I will, it will be in a browser with HTML5 video, not with Flash. Recommended Youtube app on Maemo is cuteTube.
Banking through Internet is not my cup of tea. I distrust 'credit cards' and ATMs, as it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxxts (Post 1282936)

But I think there is a silver lining - Apple has gotten cocky, the iPhone 5 in my opinion is nothing special and iOS 6 is a disgrace. I hope that an open *nix based OS will take off from where Apple left off. Maybe someday...

I will return...

I hope so, too. There are many alternatives, but nothing revolutionary, yet. Nothing which attracts attention like no other. Maybe, it's lack of an outstanding hardware platform.
Best wishes.
__________________
Per aspera ad astra...

Copernicus

2012-10-20 13:38

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxxts (Post 1282936)

While I love the N900 and the tweakability, openess, customization of Maemo, etc. it just was too slow. It could not compete with the iPhone 4, let alone the iPhone 4S - in almost every aspect.

I think the problem here is not with the N900, but rather that your concept of a cell phone has evolved. :)

I kinda consider this as an aspect of "feature creep" -- once people see that you can run a particular type of program on a new device, all previous devices become "slow", whether or not they were slow to begin with.

My N900 does not play my podcasts "slow", or handle phone calls slowly, or do any number of other tasks slowly. And I can open a shell and easily log into other machines or edit files in vi on it. It is a perfect portable computer. On the other hand, the iPhone is extremely powerful (especially as it has been updated with the latest hardware, while the N900's hardware is now something like four years old :) ), runs many cute little apps, and can play media files extremely well; but it makes a terrible portable computer...

Quote:

But hypothetically speaking, if the N900 magically got the all the hardware upgrades that the iPhone 4 has - I still couldn't go back. For one simple reason: the iPhone just works.

The iPhone "just works" mainly because Apple has worked extremely hard to get their software right, by (a) putting massive amounts of effort into designing, implementing, and debugging iOS and its built-in apps, and (b) severely limiting what you can actually do on the phone. Apps are fast because you can't run more than one at a time, because you can't modify them to make them do something Apple didn't design them to do, and because you can't install anything without first going through Apple. In short, you have no control over your own device, therefore you can't do anything that would slow down or mess up your device.

But, if all you want is a little device that runs little iApps, you certainly can't go wrong with the iPhone. :)

visN900

2012-10-20 13:46

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

well,according to me "N900 is a phone(Mobile computer in other words) which gives u the control rather than gaining your control ;) "

jackburton

2012-10-20 14:42

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

I use the N900 and an iOS device together. I just got the new iPod touch. It has such a slim size I can carry it around with me as well as the N900.

The N900 is my phone, chat, terminal, and modem/hotspot.

I use bluetooth PAN tethering between the N900 and the Touch.

I find having two devices is great. For example, I can take calls and chat on N900 while at same time use the Touch for screwing around.

I still have the best mobile computer with me at all times and all the latest and greatest apps from iOS.

"That's right, Egg Shen. The best of two worlds!"

Acurus_

2012-10-20 15:35

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Here on maemo.org is so much going on. There is surely one way only to look on our N900: Forwards!

seanmcken

2012-10-20 16:23

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

well the UI is outdated but i think there is no solution and no developer is interested in making a Best a UI for it

anonymous

2012-10-20 16:39

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

I remember the OP's other thread. Around that time my contract was up, my n900's usb port was getting loose...I made a hasty decision. 4S or lumia 900.

I've never set my n900 down, it's not with me as often as it once was but often enough to miss it when I don't have it.
The n900 knows how to do contacts correctly and trusts me to manage them. It doesn't try to upload them to the cloud or an exchange server and mix them with others and get confused in the process.
My n900 also allows me to do 20 different things I can't do on an iphone, period.

The iphone on the other hand is connected to the modern world. I can use banking apps or upload coupons to my grocery store's loyalty card to save me money. Or use ebay and paypal with ease.
I can control my Roku, or watch CNN and TED. I can listen to music from tons of services.
Getting recipes, tracking my health and exercise is a snap.
I can play lots of silly little games with people all over the world, not just the ones who know their way around terminal.
Driving anywhere is a joy with an officially supported Waze app. I'm happy to use Teamviewer instead of messing around with VNC, SHH and port forwarding.

Which kind of leads me into Jailbreaking. I found some programs that block UUID uploads and some adblockers. They have kismet too. Did I mention most of these apps crash or cause your non Cydia apps to crash? Good thing they also have crash reporting and debugging tools in the repo. Mostly Cydia is just notification hacks, themes and ringtones. Ugh! I've been reading about jailbreaking for years, and to see it in action it is a disappointment. Even Apple's underground counterculture is all hype and little substance.

I would describe my n900 as a tool or my computer, and I would describe my iphone as a "lifestyle assistant" or toy. As long as you use both devices for their strengths, they coexist pretty well.

Kangal

2012-10-21 05:17

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Same here.
Elop was right about the ecosystem wars, even if he was fundamentally wrong about his decisions.

I think that Blackberry World and Maemo 5/6's ecosystem are identical; nearly non-existent.
Windows Phone does have a better ecosystem than both, but only marginally better.
Android has a much much better from entertainment to productive Apps (eg Your Bank).
iOS has an even better one, with better quality of Apps. But its slightly more expensive and much more restrictive.

The Nokia N9 and iPhone 4 are pretty even in terms of hardware and software, however the iPhone 4 excels when it comes to customer care, resell value, 3rd party accessory/support and 3rd party services and Applications. Its clearly a better device.

Our definition of a "smartphone" has changed in this last 2 years (ever since the 3GS and SGS).
Now a smartphone isn't just about what its capable of from the original manufacturer, but also from the community/3rd party. Featurephones can do exactly what smartphones do... maybe not as fast, powerful or beautiful but they do do it. The differentiating feature between feature<->smart phones seems to be all about "outside support".

In 2010 the Nokia N9 would've been advertised as one of the best, if not "the best smartphone" on the market. Today, its a glorified featurephone or a smartphone-with-no-future. The Windows Phones had this trouble last year with the 7.5 update, now I can say without doubt they are a smartphone.

/rant
Nokia N8 = featurephone.
Nokia N9 (2011) = glorified featurephone / homeless-smartphone
Nokia N9 (2012) = glorified featurephone.
Droid (2009) = glorified featurephone.
Droid (2010, 2.2 + Many Apps) = smartphone.
HTC HD7 (2010) = glorified featurephone.
HTC HD7 (2012, WP7.5 + Some Apps) = smartphone.

juiceme

2012-10-21 19:07

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Just a simple thing about the iphone, jailbroken or not... can you ssh into it?
I thought so :) case closed.

xxxxts

2012-10-22 00:01

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1283531)

Just a simple thing about the iphone, jailbroken or not... can you ssh into it?
I thought so :) case closed.

http://i.imgur.com/5iP9i.png

Yes, that's a screen shot from my phone. SSH, VNC, etc. Is it as open as Maemo is? NO. But can you SSH into it and access the file directory and tinker? Yes, with ease.

UPDATE: http://iphonemonsta.com/how-ssh-iphone-why-ssh-iphone

That article is 2 years old.

xxxxts

2012-10-22 00:26

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

The arguments being made for the N900/Maemo are very poor in my opinion.

I don't think anyone is going to be able to name a feature that is needed in a mobile device that the iPhone lacks that the N900 possess.

iPhone 3GS vs N900, I would choose the N900 - but it's still 50/50 simply due to the amount of third party applications and products.

iPhone 4S (jailbroken) - No contents winner. It can do every single [practical] thing an N900 can do, only much faster and in a much more practical fashion. There is no debate.

If you want to bring up the lack of a psychical keyboard, go out and buy the case with one in it. However I adapted to the touch screen keyboard in less than a week and I am now much more proficient with it than I am was with the N900's keyboard.

The argument can be made about resistive vs. captive touch screens. How many N900 applications really use that technology in a practical way?

Can I obtain a terminal from my iPhone from my iPhone, yes. I can. Does it do me much good? Not really. Do I have full access over my file directory? Yes, using iFile (jailbreak app). Once again does it do me much good, no.

Going through my N900 - which has been loaded with basically every application that was worth having, the iPhone dominates it in every single category. Social networking/social media, navigation, translation, dictionary, voice control, graphic and movie editing (on the device), educational and mathematical tools, internet browsing (there is Chrome on iOS now), etc.

I can't control my regular TV using IR, however I can control my Google TV with the Google TV app. but lets be practical, who ever really used the N900's IR?

The iPhone simple gets things done. Banking, social networking, photo sharing, handling multimedia, etc.

In my personal opinion the OS is outdated, widgets can be added to the home screen using a jailbreak tweak, however I don't really care to do it.

The N900 is a hackers/tinkers delight, however I challenge anyone to make the argument that it is more practical than an iPhone 4S. I have owned an N900 for a very long time and I love the N900, but there is no debate to be had - it can do anything the N900 can do, only around five times as fast and more efficiently.

It does lack soul. I will not debate that for a second. It is not open, no one is going to even try to debate that. But you cannot be serious when you say, "The N900 is more practical" or "I can do more with the N900" - because that is simply just not true anymore. I would love to hear someone challenge this.

AndrewX192

2012-10-22 00:55

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxxts (Post 1282936)

It saddens me I can never go back to a world without iCloud (taking a photo/video and automatically having it on desktop when I walk though my front door)

With some basic linux knowledge and networking, you can replicate "iCloud". I have all my photos/videos/documents (really: everything) synced with my fileserver at home. I can then access any content from the device on any of my other machines over a secure VPN.

Lumiaman

2012-10-22 01:03

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

N900 is great if you need social connectivity as open windows allow one to communicate with great ease. It has a great keyboard. The web am colors are good. Email much better than N9. However it's slow, requires reboots even with CSSU instal and is bulky, and connectivity can't compare with iPhone 4S. For an average Joe, iPhone4S wins hands down.

Copernicus

2012-10-22 02:51

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxxts (Post 1283623)

Quote:

iPhone 4S (jailbroken) - No contents winner. It can do every single [practical] thing an N900 can do, only much faster and in a much more practical fashion. There is no debate.

Sure there's still a debate. Do you want a media player and a lot of apps? Go with iPhone. Do you want a computer in your pocket? The N900 will still work better for you, especially if you already use Linux on your desktop. On Linux, I edit my files in vim running in a shell -- when I transfer them to my N900, I can continue editing them in a shell in vim. My desktop environment and my phone environment are identical. For me, that ability is priceless...

Quote:

Social networking/social media, navigation, translation, dictionary, voice control, graphic and movie editing (on the device), educational and mathematical tools, internet browsing (there is Chrome on iOS now), etc.

Busybox, shell scripts, the ability to run full desktop Linux programs, heck -- the ability to access the entire system within the Linux paradigm. Full access to device drivers. Normal multitasking (even using the classic fork()/exec() mechanism)! Full support for any programming language, be it C, C++, Python, whatever.

For some people, this beats any number of media or internet apps. :)

Quote:

I can't control my regular TV using IR, however I can control my Google TV with the Google TV app. but lets be practical, who ever really used the N900's IR?

And yeah, this quote is why I decided to write this post. :) I don't know if you've seen it, but I went ahead and wrote a little N900 app called Pierogi. There are a fair number of folks using it, I think. As of last count I've got, let's see... 569 active ir keysets in it. Each one of those keysets can potentially control dozens of different models of devices. Not just TVs, but VCRs, DVDs, Blue rays, cable and satellite set-top boxes of many different stripes and colors, as well as stereo components, radios, air conditioners, cameras, and (if I can ever get the next update completed) a decent collection of projectors as well. Controls are semantically grouped into a series of tabbed panels. It can remember your favorite devices (and you can quickly switch between those favorites as needed). There's now a "power key search" feature, which you can also use as an improvised "TV-B-Gone" if you like. I'm working on adding macro capability to it, as well as keyboard support...

Anyway, it's something you might want to check out some time. :)

Quote:

The N900 is a hackers/tinkers delight, however I challenge anyone to make the argument that it is more practical than an iPhone 4S. I have owned an N900 for a very long time and I love the N900, but there is no debate to be had - it can do anything the N900 can do, only around five times as fast and more efficiently.

I owned an iPhone for four years before I switched to the N900. The apps were glorious, beautiful, amazing, and ultimately, completely unnecessary to my lifestyle. I ended up using it as nothing more than a phone that I occasionally used to browse the net or read email. When I want to use social media, when I want to play games, when I want to do anything serious, I usually just make my way to a real desktop computer to do it.

The N900 was a revelation when I found it. With Maemo, I can transition almost seamlessly from my desktop environment to my portable environment -- all the same tools are available in both places, and there is no barrier to communication or transfer of data between mobile device and desktop computer. Honestly, the thing is a pocket computer, in a way that the iPhone never will be...

soryuuha

2012-10-22 03:24

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxxts (Post 1283616)

http://i.imgur.com/5iP9i.png

Yes, that's a screen shot from my phone. SSH, VNC, etc. Is it as open as Maemo is? NO. But can you SSH into it and access the file directory and tinker? Yes, with ease.

With jailbroken? i dont think all of those available before jailbreak

xxxxts

2012-10-22 03:57

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by soryuuha (Post 1283645)

With jailbroken? i dont think all of those available before jailbreak

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1283531)

Just a simple thing about the iphone, jailbroken or not... can you ssh into it?
I thought so :) case closed.

Point? N900 is 600MHz until you void the warranty. ;) I am more of an N900 guy than an iPhone guy (meaning my emotions run much deeper for the N900 than the iPhone) but if you want to say "the iPhone does not SSHd" - that is simply not true.

xxxxts

2012-10-22 04:09

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1283642)

I suspect you've pretty much nailed it there -- we're talking about the definition of a "mobile device" here. The iPhone apparently has satisfied all your needs for a mobile device. There are those of us who have a different set of desires for a mobile device; you may not want what we want, but don't sell us short just for having a different opinion. :)

Sure there's still a debate. Do you want a media player and a lot of apps? Go with iPhone. Do you want a computer in your pocket? The N900 will still work better for you, especially if you already use Linux on your desktop. On Linux, I edit my files in vim running in a shell -- when I transfer them to my N900, I can continue editing them in a shell in vim. My desktop environment and my phone environment are identical. For me, that ability is priceless...

Busybox, shell scripts, the ability to run full desktop Linux programs, heck -- the ability to access the entire system within the Linux paradigm. Full access to device drivers. Normal multitasking (even using the classic fork()/exec() mechanism)! Full support for any programming language, be it C, C++, Python, whatever.

For some people, this beats any number of media or internet apps. :)

And yeah, this quote is why I decided to write this post. :) I don't know if you've seen it, but I went ahead and wrote a little N900 app called Pierogi. There are a fair number of folks using it, I think. As of last count I've got, let's see... 569 active ir keysets in it. Each one of those keysets can potentially control dozens of different models of devices. Not just TVs, but VCRs, DVDs, Blue rays, cable and satellite set-top boxes of many different stripes and colors, as well as stereo components, radios, air conditioners, cameras, and (if I can ever get the next update completed) a decent collection of projectors as well. Controls are semantically grouped into a series of tabbed panels. It can remember your favorite devices (and you can quickly switch between those favorites as needed). There's now a "power key search" feature, which you can also use as an improvised "TV-B-Gone" if you like. I'm working on adding macro capability to it, as well as keyboard support...

Anyway, it's something you might want to check out some time. :)

I owned an iPhone for four years before I switched to the N900. The apps were glorious, beautiful, amazing, and ultimately, completely unnecessary to my lifestyle. I ended up using it as nothing more than a phone that I occasionally used to browse the net or read email. When I want to use social media, when I want to play games, when I want to do anything serious, I usually just make my way to a real desktop computer to do it.

The N900 was a revelation when I found it. With Maemo, I can transition almost seamlessly from my desktop environment to my portable environment -- all the same tools are available in both places, and there is no barrier to communication or transfer of data between mobile device and desktop computer. Honestly, the thing is a pocket computer, in a way that the iPhone never will be...

We seem to have a difference of opinion of what constitutes a computer...

My iPhone "computer" can edit 1080p videos, audio, HD images, it is a very functional "computer"

My N900 "computer" can't do that. Not only with the hardware given, but also with the software. Bottom line.

They are both computers, both using the same processor type (ARM Cortex). So if you want to say, "Well one is a computer and one is not" due to the OS (BSD vs Linux kernels) - I would say that's a pretty silly notion. I don't think anyone would argue that the feats my iPhone computer are much more impressive than the feats my N900 computer can do.

I always like to reflect, and think, without bias, I don't like Apple - I don't generally like their products, I have always owned Nokia phones prior and loved them very much. With that being said - the N900 does have it's bonuses such as real multitasking, open source, great shell. But your talking about things that were being done in the 1980's...

whayong

2012-10-22 04:10

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxxts (Post 1283649)

It is 2012..... What warranty does any N900 user have?

whayong

2012-10-22 04:17

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

I always use my N900's IR with Pierogi to control my TV and cable box.

LED notification is priceless.

I can't believe I'm going to say it, but battery life on the N900 has been far far better for me. Not once did I have to mix in with the crowd of iOS and Android users all huddled up around the 2 available power outlets at the numerous airport terminals I've been to even after a full days use with just 1 battery. Also, having the ability to replace my battery when the current one runs out is a he'll of a lot better than having to "plug in" to an external battery pack.

rcolistete

2012-10-22 04:46

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxxts (Post 1283623)

What about :
- running chrooted Linux (like Easy Debian) ?
- compiling with gcc/g++ ?
- ssh -X from both directions ?

Kangal

2012-10-22 05:29

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

I like some of the information piling in this thread, but ultimately I have to side with xxxts.

The iPhone can do everything that's required of a modern smartphone, the N900 can't.

Nearly all the things N900 can do, the iPhone can do as well... and usually faster and more practical.

There's bound to be things the iPhone cannot do that the N900 can, which is why I chalk it up to different audiences.

The iPhone is for the 99% where the N900 is for the 1%.
The iPhone is a much much better smartphone, the N900 is an enthusiastphone.

I think its not even possible to debate these anymore. We'll just have to wait and see what Jolla and Android 4.2/5 offers.

Daneel

2012-10-22 06:45

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kangal (Post 1283658)

I like some of the information piling in this thread, but ultimately I have to side with xxxts.

The iPhone can do everything that's required of a modern smartphone, the N900 can't.

Nearly all the things N900 can do, the iPhone can do as well... and usually faster and more practical.

There's bound to be things the iPhone cannot do that the N900 can, which is why I chalk it up to different audiences.

The iPhone is for the 99% where the N900 is for the 1%.
The iPhone is a much much better phone, the N900 is an computer.

I think its not even possible to debate these anymore. We'll just have to wait and see what Jolla and Android 4.2/5 offers.

There, fixed.

balisingh

2012-10-22 07:05

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Loser, i can name you 5 things my n9 does that the iphone doesnt. You name me one things that i couldn't do with a browser that your app does. Leave out the games, i am not playing titly games made for 2 year olds.
1. It runs firefox. The only browser that allows JavaScript menus and flash . Very useful if you have your OWN cloud, synology.
2. Automatically connects me to my cars bluetooth with the scan of a tag.
3. Lets me delete and download songs on my phone.
4. Lets me change my host file so i don't see any ads, out of the box.
5. Lets me Shake my phone to answer calls.

Hurrian

2012-10-22 09:09

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcolistete (Post 1283655)

What about
- compiling with gcc/g++ ?

FYI: iphone-gcc_4.2-20090304-1-9_iphoneos-arm.deb
*This needs a jailbreak, while on every single Maemo device, this can be done without voiding the warranty in under 10 minutes.

xxxts, I respect your decision to use an iPhone as a... phone. It just works (tm).

Good to know that you're still in the Maemo game, using the N900 as a UMPC (which I feel was probably the real goal of the Maemo devices all along).

vi_	2012-10-22 10:41

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

computer>smartphone>featurephone

N900 wins, FLAWLESS VICTORY.

Seriously, wtf is a smartphone anyway?

"My life fades, my vision dims. All that remains are memories. I remember a time of chaos, ruined dreams, this wasted land. Most of all, I remember the man we called Max, the road warrior. To understand who he was we have to go back to the other time. When the world was powered by the black fuel, and the desert sprung great cities of pipe and steel. Gone now, swept away. For reasons long forgotten two mighty warrior tribes went to war and touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel they were nothing. They'd built a house of straw. Suddenly their machines sputtered and stopped. Their leaders talked and talked and talked, but nothing could stem the avalanche. Their world crumbled. Cities exploded. A whirlwind of looting and a firestorm of fear. Men began to feed on men.

On the roads it was a white-line nightmare. Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, waging war for a tank of juice. Good brave men were battered and smashed. Men like Max, who ruled the highways in the name of the law. Who became a lover, husband, father. And with the roar of an engine, he lost everything, his woman, his child, his world. He wandered out into the wasteland, and here he would learn, amid the dark wreckage, that the fire which burns in the heart of man, will endure. Hope survives."

When the apocalypse comes I will be fine rocking my pocket computer + diesel powered KLR650. All you bozos with your carhart hoodies and iphone 6s, well. Your ****ed.

The iphone excels at the trivial, that is all.

herpderp

2012-10-22 11:32

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxxts (Post 1283650)

Oh man, you're so right...

But you can't win on this forum. These people here won't ever acknowledge the facts you stated. I know, I tried to do the same thing, but gave up.

Wikiwide

2012-10-22 13:22

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by vi_ (Post 1283830)

computer>smartphone>featurephone

N900 wins, FLAWLESS VICTORY.

Seriously, what is a smartphone anyway?

"My life fades, my vision dims. All that remains are memories. I remember a time of chaos, ruined dreams, this wasted land. Most of all, I remember the man we called Max, the road warrior. To understand who he was we have to go back to the other time. When the world was powered by the black fuel, and the desert sprung great cities of pipe and steel. Gone now, swept away. For reasons long forgotten two mighty warrior tribes went to war and touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel they were nothing. They'd built a house of straw. Suddenly their machines sputtered and stopped. Their leaders talked and talked and talked, but nothing could stem the avalanche. Their world crumbled. Cities exploded. A whirlwind of looting and a firestorm of fear. Men began to feed on men.

On the roads it was a white-line nightmare. Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, waging war for a tank of juice. Good brave men were battered and smashed. Men like Max, who ruled the highways in the name of the law. Who became a lover, husband, father. And with the roar of an engine, he lost everything, his woman, his child, his world. He wandered out into the wasteland, and here he would learn, amid the dark wreckage, that the fire which burns in the heart of man, will endure. Hope survives."

When the apocalypse comes I will be fine rocking my pocket computer + diesel powered KLR650. All you bozos with your carhart hoodies and iphone 6s, well. Your ****ed.

The iphone excels at the trivial, that is all.

Rock-paper-scissors... Featurephone is everlasting, because it doesn't need updates from outside world, and does not depend on anybody to continue supporting it. It's still beautiful, after all these years, akin to a rock crystal.
Smartphone is cursed for being unable to do something, or for doing too much (Android camera automatically focuses itself every second because the device does not have a dedicated camera button with half-press, and there is neither a setting to turn this annoyance off so that it would focus only when a photograph is being taken, nor an openness to change the software interface so that it would include half-press-capable software button for autofocus and taking picture).
And don't forget the 'simple' phone, with black-and-white screen. It's smooth in the hand like a worn gray pebble, and solid as a rock. It's an anachronism like a cuckoo-clock. And on some occasions, it function as well (making a call) or even better (taking a plunge in a lake) than a smartfeaturephonemobilecomputer.
Warning: this abstract image is not easy to view. It requires SVG and data URI compatibility.
http://tinyurl.com/92ajggd
On the topic of apocalypse, have you read "Damnation Alley" by Roger Zelazny?
Thank you. Best wishes.
__________________
Per aspera ad astra...

Copernicus

2012-10-22 13:33

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxxts (Post 1283650)

We seem to have a difference of opinion of what constitutes a computer...

Not really. What we actually have is a difference of opinion in what we want out of a mobile device.

Quote:

My iPhone "computer" can edit 1080p videos, audio, HD images, it is a very functional "computer"

My N900 "computer" can't do that. Not only with the hardware given, but also with the software. Bottom line.

Yes, the hardware in today's iPhone is vastly superior to that within the N900. Which only makes sense, as the hardware in the N900 is now more than four years old (and the N9 isn't all that much faster).

If it helps, my own iPhone (still sitting in a corner of my room) can't edit 1080p videos or HD images. Of course, this is because it is a first-generation iPhone, and the hardware can't deal with that kind of task.

It's not a software problem.

Quote:

They are both computers, both using the same processor type (ARM Cortex). So if you want to say, "Well one is a computer and one is not" due to the OS (BSD vs Linux kernels) - I would say that's a pretty silly notion.

Yes, both devices have CPUs, and yes, both devices have OSs with Unix-like kernels. But the difference is obvious -- and even you already know it! I can see that you've "jailbroken" your iPhone. Doesn't the very word Jailbreak bring anything to mind? In order to run the software you want, you've had to modify your phone in a manner Apple very much does not want you to. And Apple will continue to try and fight against you every step of the way; I'm betting you haven't installed iOS 6 on your phone yet. ;)

In any case, that's my argument -- getting an iPhone to give me a useful working environment requires making lots of unauthorized modifications to the operating system (and I'm still not sure I'd be able to use it very well). Getting an N900 to give me a useful working environment requires, well, just switching it on.

Quote:

I don't like Apple - I don't generally like their products

I personally love Apple. My first computer was an Apple ][+. I was wowed by the first Macs (I got to play with a Fat Mac -- the one with an entire 512 Kilobytes of RAM -- for a few months when it first came out). Ultimately, I couldn't deal with the closed nature of MacOS and drifted over to Unix, but when OS X came out, I ended up back in the Apple camp. In fact, I'm writing this right now on a Mac Mini.

But yeah, the iPhone simply doesn't do it for me. The thing is a toy! Yes, you can add an external keyboard, jailbreak the thing, make endless endless modifications to try to turn it into a different device. But you're always going to be fighting the system.

The N900 does what I want right out of the box. No hassles, no compromises, no limitations.

don.edri

2012-10-22 13:38

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcolistete (Post 1283655)

What about :
- running chrooted Linux (like Easy Debian) ?
- compiling with gcc/g++ ?

With all due respect to your opinion, but who and why needs that on the go? I mean, when you're at home/work a laptop/desktop is much more comfortable to work with than a phone, and I can't find a reason why one may need those capabilities on the go. Not to say I think iPhone is better than n900 - I honestly dislike apple products, much prefer my N9 or previous androids I've owned.

EDIT: and to be fair, I also think that iPhone being able to edit hd video / photos is also useless. Can't imagine why would one want to do that on such a tiny screen when your laptop seats on the desk. And being forced to do that on the go? I mean, why?

herpderp

2012-10-22 13:48

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikiwide (Post 1283911)

Android camera automatically focuses itself every second because the device does not have a dedicated camera button with half-press, and there is neither a setting to turn this annoyance off so that it would focus only when a photograph is being taken, nor an openness to change the software interface so that it would include half-press-capable software button for autofocus and taking picture

Wow, where do you get all this (mis)information from?

Daneel

2012-10-22 14:19

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1283855)

Oh man, you're so right...

But you can't win on this forum. These people here won't ever acknowledge the facts you stated. I know, I tried to do the same thing, but gave up.

Facts? People were stating opinions, my opinion is the for MY usage pattern the N900 is vastly superior to an iphone since the N900 is a computer the iphone is not.
xxxts and yours opinion differs from mine, you are entitled to it but that doesn't make it a fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1283855)

Wow, where do you get all this (mis)information from?

From using multiple android devices, i still have a acer iconia tab a500 at home.

herpderp

2012-10-22 14:33

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Not going to argue, but those "facts" about android's camera is just complete rubbish.

Disclaimer: I developed several camera apps for android.

rm42	2012-10-22 15:06

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Honest question: Is there an app for the iPhone that can edit ODF/DOC/DOCX/ODS/XLS files with the same fidelity as OpenOffice does on the N900? Can it do so while one is offline? Sure, launching OpenOffice.org on the N900 takes 37 seconds (just timed it), but once loaded it is quite responsive, and most importantly for me, full powered.

Other things that I love about my N900 that I have not seen on an iPhone are:
- FMTransmitter (to say the least about its boosted power and expanded beyond the normally allowable frequencies in many countries)
- full python support (including pyQt, pyside, and pygtk libraries)
- Offline mapping apps like marble.
- The ability to run my old Palm OS apps. (I still rely on a couple of them believe it or not).
- Is there an app that can match what MyPaint allows one to do on the N900?
- The ability to hold power decreases over time on all rechargeable batteries. So, being able to replace the battery (instead of the hole device) is huge!

This are things that are really important for me. I haven't seen anything the iPhone offers that is compelling enough to make me switch away from these. A little speed increase is not important if I can't even do these things at all.

javispedro

2012-10-22 15:30

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcolistete (Post 1283655)

What about :
- running chrooted Linux (like Easy Debian) ?
- compiling with gcc/g++ ?
- ssh -X from both directions ?

These are all bad examples, because you'll eventually be able to do all of them on the iPhone (he**, you can actually do all of that in Windows....).

Fact is, it is just a matter of convenience. With the N9/00, I know how to run all of the academic applications that I use daily -- mostly because it's just the same as running them on my desktop.

With an Android or iOS device it would be ten times the effort at best. But it would certainly be doable. Yes, this means that the N900 is actually easier to use than the iPhone, at least for me.

Now go and find a marketable use case for that...

Grok	2012-10-22 16:27

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

These posts are so useless....

It's like one guy telling another guy that his XYZ cordless screwdriver is the best, he can switch bits, select the torque, it reverses and recharges quickly and you don't need any wrist strength and is faster!

The other points out his old slot screwdriver gets in tighter places, is lighter, has finer torqueing abilities with tactile feedback, doesn't need batteries, although not recommended can be used to scrape a gasket, or as a pry-bar and chisel!

Both guys are right one does not entirely replace the other. They will each claim that they don't need the other tools extra features.

So What? Compare all you want, they are simply different.

qwazix

2012-10-22 16:44

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

I think the usage paradigm of not accessible filesystem is wrong. And this doesn't change with jailbreak. You may have access to files then, but it doesn't change the workflow. The N900 still has the classic computer workflow (the N9 doesn't, in spite of the access to filesystem). Get a file (e-mail, bluetooth, usb mass storage, sd, download or whatever) , edit it with various applications, transfer it wherever you want (again, sd, usb, e-mail, upload etc.)

Any device that does not support this workflow natively, without workarounds, for me is not a computer.

marbleuser

2012-10-22 16:55

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Whenever i get tempted to buy an iphone after seeing threads like this i simply fire up nitdroid. As far as i'm concerned 99% of the apps available for iphone are available for nitdroid. Then the magic happens: I go to the android app store and after about 30 minutes become soul destroyed by the worthless 'work around' apps and the trivial 'app instead of browser' apps (another class of workaround apps for a browser that doesn't allow you to upload files or play flash that then make it onto android too).

But it's the trvial toy apps that get me.

Just fire up nitdroid, go to the app store, see how long you'll be able to stick it.

All these 'i now have an iphone' threads all seem to say 'but i haven't got rid of my n900'. That says it all.

lancewex

2012-10-22 17:08

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

I will never own an iPhone. Ever. It's not because they're not exceptionally designed machines with premium materials and a gorgeous look. It's because I fundamentally disagree with the philosophy of the them. I own 3 Mac laptops and a Mac Mini. But I despise iOS. It's Disney-fied OS tells me what I can install. And like Android is tracks everything I do. I am just not OK with any of that. But most people don't care. And so what.

However, many people say that the iPhone can do anything the N900 can do. We all know that's not true. The IR transmitter and FM radio are obvious exceptions. And for anyone who knows how to program the N900 is very malleable....

I also just love the Maemo in the N900. I own an N9 but I still prefer the OS of the N900. It just makes sense to me. The screen is now so old tech, and the processor pretty slow, and the RAM seriously lacking...but the OS is still awesome. If my N9 broke today I would return the SIM to the N900 since there is nothing else out there that interests me right now.

Wikiwide

2012-10-22 22:35

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1283946)

Not going to argue, but those "facts" about android's camera is just complete rubbish.

Disclaimer: I developed several camera apps for android.

This annoyance I have described happens with default camera on some androids. Of course, I can accept that it does not happen on all of them: both hardware and software can be very different on various Android phones. It's just an example of how well thought-out Android can be.
Maybe, there are camera apps out there which work better than default camera in this respect. But I haven't installed much apps from 'outside', yet. Would installing a new camera app remove/replace the default camera app? Because it would be confusing if there were two camera apps installed at the same time: one default, and one from somewhere else.
Thank you for the hint that there are other cameras out there. Best wishes.

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