clock
 

why isn't there a 'big clock' program for the n800? i know there's maemochron, but it's dead. how hard is it to learn python? how hard is it to port a palm os program?

Re: clock
 

Why not have a go at porting something and get back to us when you've finished? :D

Re: clock
 

gosh, thanks. =)

Re: clock
 

You know, every time I see someone on here ranting about how the ITT is a CONSUMER DEVICE, DAMMIT WHY DOESN'T ANYONE UNDERSTAND, threads like this one always come to mind.

Should it really be necessary to add a repository (WAAAY over the head of the average "consumer") or port something to get a big clock on a "consumer device"?

Re: clock
 

And I know my way around a computer (linux, mac and windows user) - just not programming. last time was in jr high, and it was in basic on an apple ][ plus.

i still want the clock, darnit...

Re: clock
 

Here you go, save it and use it on yer desktop:

http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~wcherowi/clock.gif

Re: clock
 

The IT is definitely a consumer device if you use it for what it is, browsing the internet, reading your mail, etc.

If you want more.... If you want to race with your commuter car, you need to know how to tune it, otherwise you'll never win...

Ton.

Re: clock
 

At least it will be right twice a day. :)

Re: clock
 

I see you found the bug in my solution :p

Re: clock
 

you could have left the numbers off... then it'd be right more often.

OK - I know the IT works great as advertised - I love it. But is a (working) clock that much to ask for?

Re: clock
 

I created a JavaScript clock using code from this site: http://www.java-scripts.net/javascri...al-Clock.phtml

It just shows a digital clock in the web browser. Nothing more.

Re: clock
 

I understand what you're getting at, but I'm just trying to point out the conflicting message that is prevalent on this board:

- "I need to open Word documents" -- "Well you can't, it's a CONSUMER DEVICE!"

- "But my Palm could do it" -- "Well, you can install AbiWord, but it only kind of works. Here's the repository." -- "What's a repository?"

- "I think it would be great if there was a big clock application" -- "Well, simply install scratchbox, the rootstrap & toolchain, gcc, put your device into red pill mode, and get writing code!"

All I'm trying to say is: either it's a consumer device, or you have to break out the compiler or dive into dependency hell if you want a piece of functionality on par with an $10 alarm clock. You can't have it both ways.

Obviously, it's a chicken and egg problem -- people can't just "install" a big clock app if there isn't one to install.

But the people on both sides of this argument both want the same thing: For the N800 to be the best possible device it can be, and to sell well enough that it's viable for Nokia to continue developing it.

You hardcore Linux guys must understand that you might as well be speaking Martian when you start talking about repositories and firmware and xterms to Joe Sixpack who just bought a cool looking internet device at CompUSA.

If I'm out at the store comparing handheld devices, and one has a full screen clock I can just download and install, and the other product has people telling me to install Python and get cracking -- well, which do you think sounds more appealing to the average CONSUMER?

Assuming you want people to support the N800, throw out a bone every once in a while rather than being so snarky about everything. I literally can't believe you posted that clock graphic. How rude is that?

Anyway, I'm hijacking the OP's thread here, so I'll stop. But seriously guys. If you want to see more N800 users, stop treating everyone who can't compile their own kernel like lepers.

Re: clock
 

Snarky, what a word....

I think you are being snarky, settle down big fella. Maybe you should have done more research/comparing into what you were buying before you purchased it (like you stated), instead of being all upset here.

I understand that some people in this forum can be annoying and less than helpful. This however does not negate the fact that you have some responsibility for your purchase and how you are going to use your device. When I bought a 770 there was only around 10 apps, but it grew over time, and shrunk and grew. One of the ways it grew is from people asking for apps, and others saying hey thats a good idea... Another way is for people to start trying to learn, and then end up porting an app for the first time themselves.

This is an awesome piece of hardware, with some cool functionality, perhaps a UMPC would have been a better option for you, but the price forced you into an IT?


Look, does the average consumer need to know how to add a repository, no, they can use it right out of the box. Should any n800 user (or child) be able to add repositories, yes. Cmon, if you are not willing to learn a little with any new device, you will not really be able to use it to its full potential.


Check out maemo.org and do some reading!!!!

I personally thought the clock picture, however un-useful, provided some humor. Sometime people like to jump in even with nothing constructive to say.

Snarky, my sister lives in New Zealand, they call it cheeky there, here in Michigan its called being a smart a55, go figure?

Re: clock
 

Sure we can.

The N800 does perform many tasks effectively out of the box. Yes, there are still quirks but for the most part it's complete.

The dividing line between consumer device and "wonderbox capable of doing so many things if the tools are just ported/developed" lies at different places for different users. That is exactly why the tablet can and does "have it both ways". It is very difficult to encapsulate the standard (or common) user experience because IMO it doesn't really exist-- yet. So it's very broad and subjective.

The N800 experience continues to evolve, too. It is still a novel platform. Someday it will reach a point of refinement to where the out-of-box experience is, say, 98% equivalent to current laptops and at that point the definitions won't be as hard to nail down.

Re: clock
 

I'm actually not upset about my purchase, believe it or not. But yes, there are things I would change if I were in charge. I only rant like this when something is just a couple inches short of true greatness. If I'm ranting about it, you know you're pretty close to something REALLY great. :)

For the most part, I like my N800 and it does a number of things quite well. I recently checked out a state-of-the-art Windows Mobile competitor (the HTC Advantage) and honestly the N800 runs rings around it, as long as you don't need PIM or MS Office functionality.

However, despite that, the N800 is not something I could unreservedly recommend to a friend or non-technical person at this time, for the reasons I keep mentioning.

My frustration stems from what I perceive as obvious and easily solved problems repeatedly overlooked by Nokia in favor of pie-in-the-sky like VoIP and WiMAX. I won't argue that those are not important things, and that someday, maybe 2 years from now, they'll be a big deal to more than 5% of the population, but right now they just don't have critical mass, and meanwhile REALLY IMPORTANT CONSUMER INTERNET THINGS that everyone uses (email client!) are languishing or (AIM) not included with the device at all. It just seems to me like priorities are out of whack.

I guess it would be far more effective for me to send this feedback to Nokia than keep yelling into the black hole, so I guess I will go do that now.

I apologize for any perceived snarkiness. I thought I was being fairly objective.

Re: clock
 

It IS a consumer device. I think you are confusing the definition of 'Consumer Device' with 'Peice of hardware that will do exactly what I want it to because it runs linux therefore I infer that the rules about things only doing what they are built to do dont apply to it'. The internet tablets do EXACTLY what Nokia advertises them as doing out of the box. When you power it up it is perfectly capable of connecting to networks and browsing the web and listening to internet radio and checking email and other such things. You would like it to do more, thans understandable, but you can't complain about getting your hands dirty if you want to modify the device to go above and beyond the call of duty.

Re: clock
 

You do bring up good points. It's a shame, but often the low-hanging fruit gets overlooked due to hyperfocus on big-ticket items. IMO the best way to approach something like development for the tablet is assemble teams for the big projects and allocate at least a few people to knocking out the easy stuff (like my alarm bugs, 1691 and 1693). With that approach, I've found that eventually the stuff in the middle is taken care of coincidentally or becomes moot.

Re: clock
 

No, no, that's what I'm arguing AGAINST!

Yes, it does web browsing and email out of the box. That's great!

I would say however that some of the built-in functionality could be dramatically improved (see below).

I'm trying to say that, in a situation like the OP's, in the situation where a third-party app is needed:

1. If it exists, the install process could be easier than having to add a repository, etc.

2. If someone is asking if a third-party app exists, and it's something like a BitTorrent client, then yes, you should expect to have to do some legwork. But for something like a full screen clock? That just doesn't seem like asking the world, and shouldn't draw retorts of "build it yourself!"

Well, sort of.

The box claims it can do IMAP email, which is one of the reasons I bought it. And I guess TECHNICALLY it does, but only in the loosest possible definition. Right now it:

1. Doesn't sync read/unread status with my IMAP server
2. Can't see any subfolders
3. Lumps all accounts into one inbox
4. Can't delete messages off the server, even when asked to

All of which I would consider to be pretty basic IMAP email functionality.

There is such a disparity in the level of quality between the web browser and the email, I actually think it's misleading for Nokia to claim that it supports IMAP.

Again, I DON'T HATE the N800. :) I just feel there is a lot of room for improvement and am hoping that someone who is actually in a position of influence at Nokia might be willing to consider what I'm saying.

Re: clock
 

IMO Nokia should be more precise in advertising the features and usability. Failing to do so is the biggest out-of-the-box shortcoming. Buyers should be completely informed.

Re: clock
 

That is because people with all levels of knowledge use this board. With scratchbox/rootstrap/toolchain knowledge from 0 to 100. I, for example, are definitely not more than a 20 on the scale of 0-100 on Linux knowledge, so i consider myself a consumer. I install what is available. If it's not available, i wait or forget about it.

I really didn't like that either. It's an insult to the initial poster and definitely not why this new IT user is on this board.

Ton.

Re: clock
 

Personally Texrat, I think the email client they continue to ship is the biggest failure. The poster does make some good points about the functionality that does come with the IT.

But whining about having to add a repository to be able to download software is just plain crap. I really really do not see the big deal about adding repositories, or for that matter upgrading firmware.

Adding functionality is a bonus, but they could knock out some of that low hanging fruit already. Two years and that email client is still crap.

Re: clock
 

Soooo... Does anyone else think that a fullscreen clock might not be such a bad idea?

Re: clock
 

I can see where a user could make the assessment you do, pb, (re email client) but I was speaking from a much broader perspective. In that sense, if Nokia made it very clear that the client was so limited, then users are fully informed and if they buy the tablet anyway it's an issue now of doing so out of spite. ;) Okay, half kidding there.

And while I won't support whining in any shape or form, I do believe there have been serious problems with repositories and thus legitimate complaints (such as one bad repo crashing the whole process). Average consumers should NEVER have to worry about them (and guess what: in principle, Nokia agrees). Want to install something? One click and it should just happen. The .install packaging went a long way toward getting there. Future Application Manager improvements will further close the gap.

Finally, it's my understanding the recent email client work has shown progress. Is that not the case? I keep reading about this Klaws thing...

Re: clock
 

JUST to get the thread back on track (:)) :

I too have been thinking about a full screen clock app. In the past two weeks I've been at two different funerals (not the 10 minute pop in/out, the 3 + hours a day for 3 days funeral). I brought my tablet, carefully concealed in my left suit inner-pocket (I brought earphones as well, but decided it to be too risky to use them :p). I used the built in Clock applet (on the desktop), and would quietly/carefully consult it every 5 minutes.

Just an idea for such a clock, I think it would be cool if it was a nice glossy/flashy iPhone like (I don't have an iPhone, but something that you would expect to find on one) clock, Analog preferred, but Digital cool as well. Something that a quick glance would make it easy to read, and could still lead to a conversation if your caught (:D):

Wow what was that in your pocket? *whip out tablet* Yeah, it's my cool Internet Tablet ;-)

vs

what was that in your pocket *whip out tablet* Oh, I was just checking the time off of this small built-in desktop app. Wanna see! *guy walks away*

I thought about building such an app myself, did all the research, what SDK I need to d/l and install, how and what language... But I don't think I would have the time to actually code it, seeing that school starts in a couple weeks.

Some quick googling turned up something along the lines of what I was thinking:

iPhone digital:
http://iphone-scene.com/system/files/u1/clock_old.jpg

Nice glossy analog:
http://gljakal.com/blog/wp-content/u...7/clock_aa.jpg

(Google query: iphone clock)

Ideas? Suggestions? Comments?

Jon :)

Re: clock
 

I puzzled through the SDK installation only to have it *partially* work. No one actually has a good tutorial on how to set up a development environment for this tablet. Some of the HowTo's are literally incomplete pastes from several readme files...so bad, there are actually instances of "now use this command:" and there is a blank space. The same files are referred to by different names in almost every setup guide, and in order to find all the necessary files you have to piece clues from five different incomplete tutorials and fill in the gaps with Google (mostly seeing unanswered requests for help setting up the dev environment).

Thankfully I can poke my way around this stuff and figure out what needs to be done, and maybe eventually write something up in a rational manner.

There are a lot of good programmers out there who just want to get a toolkit and write their code, not fix the toolkit first.

Re: clock
 

I asked for a "Port-and-Hildonize for Dummies" as well. No replies.
I gave up on the documentation that is available since it's mostly incorrect, incomplete and outdated.

Ton.

Re: clock
 

As the original poster - I wasn't insulted. I like when people try to be funny. If you meant "this new user" to be me - I'm not so new... But - thanks for the support - it is appreciated.


Now - where's my clock?

Re: clock
 

How to make a full screen clock without compiling anything:

Install xterm

Open xterm

Make font as big as you can

now run

while sleep 1
do
date
done

Now make it full screen,

See you had the right tools the whole time :) Just got to learn how to use them... I'll tell you what, that clock is way better than the email client :)

Re: clock
 

Will that nifty routine let other processes run? Or is it selfish?

Re: clock
 

It plays nice with others

You know I have looked and there are not a lot of fullscreen clocks for linux out there. There was a nice fullscreen Binary clock for python, I think we should port that one....

http://freshmeat.net/projects/binclock

Re: clock
 

That's very clever. I didn't think to use that clock... I knew about it. I must be getting lazy figuring things out now that my time is rather consumed with a constantly eating, burping, defecating, crying, bundle of pure joy.

thanks

Re: clock
 

Way too "geeky" for me. I think I would prefer a regular clock... here - I'll be lazy again - on the easy to really hard scale how does porting python programs to the n800 rate? btw- i know no python, but i do know how to compile etc...

Re: clock
 

Porting and coding python is really easy. Most probably, you just have to copy the file to the device and run python filename.py.

Re: clock
 

I setup the 3.2 dev environment last week and it was *much* easier than when I did it with the original one in 2005.

Re: clock
 

Joshua,

This link can take you through the basics of Python: Python Tutorial

I've never attempted a port, so I can't help you there.

Re: clock
 

If you want to port binclock u must before port the module ncurse to pymaemo wich doen't exist.

Re: clock
 

Thanks for this. This is what I am using until some one ports a nice big clock app. There is another thread about a clock I noticed, so perhaps I'll get what I want soon.

Also - thanks for the link to the python tutorial - I started reading it, and it seems pretty doable - when I get time... I will try to find a python clock and see if it'll just work with the command line some one else recommended. I'll report back if I am lucky...

Re: clock
 

MaemoChron for python 2.5 is available here :
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ght=maemochron

Re: clock
 

Excellent.

I loaded it. Works very nicely, looks great, major resource hog though... I could barely use canola with it running. Oh well. I really do appreciate that you ported it to the newer python version though! Thanks!

Re: clock
 

Why couldn't you just use a javascript clock? Like this:

http://jeans.studentenweb.org/java/javclock.html

or this:

Analog:

http://javascript.about.com/library/blclock5.htm

You could get the javascript, store it locally and put on whatever look and feel you wanted.