Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Years ago I bought a n770 online, having never touched one. In my estimation, I expected it to be about the size of a Nexus 7 (only thicker).

I was astonished at the size when it arrived, then immediately wanted an n800 for more power. Over the years, I owned a few n800's and n810's and always loved playing with them. They never really fully scratched an itch I had though as far as media playback and spotty wifi (MY fault) in the bedroom always made me pass them on.

Now I have an iPhone (soon going back to Android for phone usage) and use my iPad non-stop. I miss Maemo though. I am not sure what it is about it. Can't be openness because Android has that. I honestly think it is a style and design thing. I wish my iPhone had the flair of the n900 interface. I miss the styling of the styling of the n770 hardware.

There is no point to this post other than to let another voice be heard that Maemo/Meego should somehow live on. Shoehorning onto a new device is fine by me. I just miss it.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

I love your post for the nostalgia reasons, I'm a 770 owner that came here knowing that I'd probably need to purchase something a bit more beefy later down the line. I've used the N800, N810, liked the N900 (reluctantly) and now own a N9 as a daily user until I replace it. I now have an iPad (3rd generation) and a Nexus 7. Both feel great, are what I've been wanting since my 770 in terms of functionality. Shame that Nokia didn't stay in that game.

And by your join date, you're part of the original ITT crew. And just like you, I miss Maemo. Loved how people would solve problems that I didn't even know I had. By the time I got the N810, I helped folks limit how much RAM and room it took up on boot that most of us never used. Smarter folks made scripts that did the same on the N900. Now? We're largely left to nostalgic posts where we recall the better days and find ourselves missing a lot of "would have, could have, should have" intents from Nokia and this community.

The spotty wi-fi is nothing compared to the spotty GPS on the N810.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Haha... You are so old. What device was your favorite?

Step 1?
Step 2?
Step 3?
Step 4?
Step 5?

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

And... this is representative of what TMO neé ITT has to offer. See above.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

True. Some live in the past and think they are better than others. Some answer the questions if/when they can to help others with their questions/issues, when they can.

ITT vs TMO 0-1

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Grandmothers and grandfathers :) Gerbick is that some rewrite of geriatric?

For me the Palm Tungsten III ( I think) was somehow optimal at its time. Then came the N800. It had lots of things the Palm didn't in terms of web, but no functional PIM for everyday use. The N900 had both, sort of, and lots of other fun, but it was flaky for everyday use. The N9 I can't even be flashed in a meaningful manner, but is OK for everyday use. Then came the Lumia, it CAN be flashed in a meaningful manner AND is almost perfect for everyday use. Strange how things evolve :D

But of course if you live in the past, and the iPhone is the pinnacle for which everything ELSE is to be measured, then the present will never be fun - unless you are honest with yourself and get that iPhone you always wanted and forget about the past.

I love the past, I love the present. You could too, just stop being fanboys :D

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

What does "flashed in a meaningful manner" mean?
Just curious, I mean flashing N9 is quite easy but I have no lumias so I do not know how is it different with it? And what can you flash on it except windows?

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Why not focus on the maemo devices here? If you even know what the OP talking about? :)

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

It's impossible to "flash back". You can't downgrade, not even to a vanilla version.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

OK, that is really true. I have to concur it is not nice but it seems to be more or less an industry standard. I am quite surprised that you can actually flash an older version to Lumias. It must be because the OS is microsoft's, not Nokia's and they propably did not have time to implement the locking due to having a pressure to get the device to market.
Still, it's not possible to flash anything else than WP on the devices, unfortunately.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Flash in a meaningful manner? So... it can be flashed to Windows Phone 8, the newest version?

Nope. Not so meaningful after all...

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

specc isn't giving full facts; flash a Lumia 800 with Qualcomm bootloader to WP7.8 and if you flash back, you would lose the unlocked bootloader regardless of being on wp7.5 or wp7.8...

Also didn't Microsoft ban all WP7 devices from marketplace? So if you don't upgrade you are using a paper weight nothing more; how is this useful?

If your Lumia 800 doesn't have the Qualcomm bootloader, you cant root it easily on wp7.8 vs the ease of flashing open mode kernel on the n9...

Oh specc before you bluff more remember there are others here with lumias too with the difference being that our lumias are hideous creatures collecting dust in cupboards due to its various limitations...

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

I don't know what you mean, but here it is:
http://smartphonegeeks.in/2012/03/tu...stom-firmware/

Btw, I wonder if Nokia care suite can be used on the N9? If that's the case the case, then it really can be flashed properly. Anyone tried?

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

My point wasn't what you linked to... I meant that there have been several Lumia 800's with Qualcomm boot-loaders that allow a greater sort of freedom with devices in terms of side-loading etc

Once you flash WP7.8, these boot-loaders allow the flash no problem but they become restricted like all the other Lumia 800s without the Qualcomm boot-loader... Now using your downgrade philosophy I should be able to downgrade and get back the unlocked Qualcomm boot-loader but nope you can't do it... De-branding a device is not equal to what I am referring to...

Also my next point was I'm pretty sure if use plain-old WP7 not 7.5, you are not allowed access to Marketplace as M$ wants to push you onto an upgrade to prevent fragmentation; the same will repeat now that WP7.8 is being rolled out... Wait a few months and downgrading to WP7.5 will leave you out of the marketplace too...


Lastly, FYI you are dealing with Nokia devices here which regardless of OS are actually one of the easiest to flash... Nokia Care Suite should work for any device made by Nokia including Symbian and the N9; its a replacement for Phoenix in a way if I'm not wrong... Phoenix gave a GUI too for flashing incl. the N9...

What you need to remember is only Harmattan Flasher in CLI is given out by Nokia legally while Phoenix, Nokia Care Suite etc are actually Nokia's properties not to be used by the public... Its another thing they are routinely leaked out but to nit pick illogically like you do then there doesn't exist a way to flash devices other than Harmattan & Maemo ones...

[edit] The reality is there exists a way to downgrade firmware on the N9 but that can be done by the flasher that is only in the hands of the Harmattan team hence if leaked it would take a few seconds to fire the person while Nokia Care Suite, Phoenix etc are issued to Nokia Care branches, Nokia Factories etc hence can be leaked easily... FWIW the current method is to download FW from Navifirm and flash using NCS but increasing number of Nokia Care branches are moving to Nokia Software Updater For Care/Retail which usually contains latest FWs only so if Navifirm is turned off I don't know how you are going to keep getting downgrade firmware images... [/edit]

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Lots of info here. The point is that "debranding" an N9 is equal to downgrading due to version numbering considering the same firmware version.

With a lumia you can flash at will, legal or not. With the N9 you can't. I don't see what relevance this has to features of the market place,regardless of how stupid they are.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Debranding an N9 is possible!!! You take a pr1.2 N9 tied to your network and flash global pr1.3! AFAIK there are no new N9s sold with pr1.3 pre-installed from telcos so its possible... So you can't say totally not possible to de-brand! Also you can flash a same or higher pr_legacy (not pr version) if tied to pr1.3 Telco version so de-branding is possible!

Relevance to marketplace applies as there is NO way to install apps on WP7.8 other than using marketplace (you can deploy 10 apps using developer account but pay $99/yr for that first) and if you downgrade to WP7 you can't install ANY app so what good is a phone that is worse than Asha series?


specc if you want to argue about something you should know about it but it seems like you are taking your experience with the n9 which you didn't do things properly and just comparing to the 800 without knowing full facts...

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Nitpicking. As I said, debranding is equal to downgrading. You cannot debrand within the same firmware version. The moment you start using a new N9 with pr1.2 it will ask you to upgrade ota. Once that is done there is no way back. So yes, debranding is possible, but in real life it is just a useless feature for anyone purchasing the N9.

Read carefully now: with a lumia you can :D that's the difference, and it is not just a theoretical possibility long lost once you have had your phone a couple of hours.

With all your apparent "knowledge" you are still stuck on a hopeless branding if you have pr1.3.

This is just one of the things that was lost from the N900 to the N9.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

If you call downgrading to WP7 with no access to marketplace a good feature then I have a magic potion to sell to you to cure you :p

Oh and whatever branding you have on pr1.3 N9 can be removed so I don't see an issue there... Unlike WP having any version of pr1.3 for n9 has NO difference unless you are using China version which also has a work-around!

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Well then please elaborate how you do that. Get a branded pr1.3 to vanilla pr1.3. Seriously, I would like to know.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Give me your definition of "branded" first...

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Who derailed this thread?

I think we have to face the fact that we have a serious serial thread derailer among us.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Yup... The derailer: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...31&postcount=3

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Hey, Don't shoot the messanger,,,

That was a nostalic question to the old guys walking the maemo streets long before we arrived and what device (one of the five) they favored over the others, if any.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Why this stalling? But anyway. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82693

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

The derailing comes from the fact that the community is not held together by love for Maemo, but by hate towards Nokia/MS. To be a "true and proper" member of TMO all you need is to sing "all you need is hate".

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

You must be the band leader, ericcson.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Well thedead, I am still waiting for the solution.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

I still don't get your definition of "branded"... The link is from the flashing guide which doesn't speak about de-branding... Basically you want all the operator-related things off right? Confirm it and i'll tell you how...

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

The link does in fact include branded stuff, 2xx, 3xx etc (that cannot be flashed to ANY unbranded version due to higher version number)

What I want is a vanilla pr1.3 001 from any of the other pr1.3 versions. Do you know how? yes or no.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Vanilla PR1.3 can be flashed on top of a branded PR1.3. That's been proven over and over again. For instance my N9 from Dubai was flashed with Northern Europe PR1.3 (considered vanilla) from PR1.2.1, then reflashed with PR1.3 from Dubai when it finally came out. Not a problem.

You have a point, downgrading isn't possible it seems - I may be wrong. But if you're talking about going from branded (like Telcel) to vanilla, that's very doable as long as they're either an upgrade or sidegrade (same to same).

But if you're talking about a branded PR1.3 to PR1.2, not possible from what little I know/have seen.

But why would you want what you're asking? "Just because" or "I can do it on the Lumia 800" isn't really a good answer. Both are minor players as compared to other mainstream phones and the ability to do such a minor thing - convenient or not - is really like splitting hairs. Nice if you can do it, but can your Lumia 800 be upgraded to WP8? Can it be unbranded, unlocked and then have USB OTG or mass storage enabled?

In the end, your point doesn't matter. Both phones/platforms will invariably be forgotten to the average customer by January 2013.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

The particular mechanism for flashing regarding version numbering is 100% defined in that link. Let's not discuss the validity of that. That link is valid and it's just the way it is. If you know of a way to somehow "fool that system", then please say so, otherwise STFU :mad:

My point does matter. If I want to sell my phone, a vanilla unbranded phone is much easier to sell than a branded one with chinese characters (in the western society). You have unbranded vanilla = high price. Exotic branded = low price/impossible to sell. and of course anything in between. But it does indeed matter.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

How is what I said disregarding what you consider valid? I mean... let's be frank here. I did what I said I did, and it worked. Didn't brick the phone. Didn't cause any issues. So what's your point there?

And pertaining your point, let's answer the question you're not willing to answer aloud. Can you upgrade to WP8?

You cannot. So flashing the Lumia 800/900 in a "meaningful manner" means what exactly?

You can flash a vanilla PR1.3 onto a N9. I have no branding whatsoever on my phone. Zero. So your point isn't quite holding up. And I've taken Mexican Telcel N9's when I was helping source them for members and went from PR1.2 to PR1.3 unbranded without incident.

Look at this forum, other folks have done the exact same thing.

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

There you go again. I KNOW going from any version 1.2 to any version 1.3 is a "valid" flash. It is written out in all it's glory in that link and quoted by me. THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

With my Lumia I can flash any goddam ROM I want. That is the difference. And NO, I cannot flash WP8 into my Lumia 800, Ican't flash JellyBean either or iOS. Can you flash Harmattan Pr1.3 into your N900? It's a pointless discussion. But I can purchase a Lumia 620, 820, 920 or anything in between and they all run WP8. In fact I just have :D Besides, in January WP7.8 is coming. What is coming for the N9? LOL

But if you think the flashing mechanics for the N9 is just fine, good for you :) I don't, bad for me :(

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

Ever thought that communication was not your strong point? No need for huge letters.

Thanks for finally answering my question. Guess we have different understandings for the term "meaningful". You can't flash WP8, so that contradicts your "I can flash any g**d*** ROM I want"... because you can't. That's a limitation.

Same for going from PR1.3 to PR1.2. It's a limitation, not one that I'd consider an issue for me personally (no need for it yet) but as it stands, it's a limitation nonetheless.

Oh well. I never said it's just fine as it stands. But your issue is a rather minor one. And yes... we do agree. It's pointless.

I don't have a N900, btw. But last I checked, they had PR1.3.1 (security update) for Maemo5. And the N9, there's PR1.3 for MeeGo Harmattan. And if you wanted the newer version of the OS while still on the N900, you'd have to buy the (now a dead-end product) N9.

Just like if you wanted WP8, you'd have to buy a new phone - your list above was adequate. Enjoy the superficial update to 7.8. I'll probably be on to BB10 by then.

And knowing is half the battle...

Re: Waxing nostalgic for Maemo...
 

I wish I could go to PR1.2 because ovi (unlike WP) allows PR1.2 phones and the reps fail my app because it doesn't start on an os I can't possibly have and check on.

So flashing to an older version on the N9 is indeed a valid request while I cannot see why this is needed on WP (as older versions are banned by the market). So in my book, as always Nokia has the right features on the wrong phone.

Apart from that, "debranding" in the N9 terminology just means to get rid of the lpm telco icon and uninstall the bloatware. You can even change the repositories to those of vanilla. You can even change the repositories to those of the N950 if you want. So if you want to sell it you can just do that.

(On a sidenote WP7.8 is exactly what PR1.3 was for M5 and harmattan. A last hurray. And around the same time after launch too)

The only phones treated right by Nokia were the first S^3 devices, who got Anna and then Belle, and now Belle refresh. They are the only phones ever produced by nokia to get a full os version upgrade. (The N800 was the only tablet to get a full os version upgrade).

Even the 5800 which still got updates 3 years after release, and got significantly polished throughout the years, was stuck to S^1 forever. Older phones never even got an FP upgrade.

On the other hand, other companies have moved on to provide the latest software for their devices for at least 2 years after release. So where Nokia was ahead now they are miles behind. As always. They showed the road but lacked the courage to follow it.

This brings me back to the original topic: They invented the space of tablets, they just needed to keep on, beef them up and increase size. They flirted with the big screen dual phone/tablet thing (N810 with phone). Would be huge for the time, an early Note. But would it be successful? With the right marketing, I bet. They redefined the smartphone with the N900. They really did. It wasn't an iPhone killer but as things came out to be, the world didn't need an iPhone killer, it needed an android. And maemo 5 was miles ahead of android in 2009. Instead of going forward that way, they decided to start from scratch. Twice.

With the abundance of apps ready to port, and the multitude of programming languages + toolkits available for maemo 5, they could have easily had more apps than android, if they flooded the market with Nxx0's. N920 without keyboard 6 months later, N960 another 6 months, N820 as a mid-range phone.

Not to mention other wasted opportunities like the mosh app-store long before the iphone, the n-gage console+platform long before xperia play and psvita. The smartphone before smartphones...

Many could've's and would've's. But that's nostalgia all about, isn't it.