Restructuring the forum
 

Now since the migration seems to be already done, are there any plans about improving the forum, moving legacy stuff to more isolated area, creating subsections for current projects like Mer > Nemo/PlasmaActive/Sailfish and etc.? This question was pushed until the after migration, so now should be a good time to revisit it.

UPDATE:
See the related poll: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88790

And also, please change the september council elections logo :)

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Restructuring is always nice but I think a thread is enough for mer. Maybe mer deserve a sub. But in that case, ubuntu, tizen, android and others do it as well. When it comes to jolla a thread is definitely enough. Their answer to the open letter was pretty boring so we can easily use one of the 5 threads to discuss anything related to jolla.

While new user signup, image verification image doesn't load. Someone should check and get it fixed if needed

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Any response from TMO admins on this?

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I think we need bb10 and sailfish forums, those operating systems have a lot in common with maemo.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Sailfish OS, BlackBerry 10 OS and Ubuntu Phone OS are logical pathways for Maemo/MeeGo Harmattan users and developers (common use of Qt/Qt Quick). So it would be very useful to have here, in TMO, some topic sections dedicatted to them.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I'd say Mer should have top level subforum, since Mer is continuation of Meego. And in Mer subforum there should be Sailfish, Plasma Active and Nemo subsections. Sailfish is not the only system which uses Mer. Right now all these topics are placed in Meego/Harmattan subforum which makes it too messy, since it's usually flooded with Harmattan specific stuff.

Ubuntu Mobile and BB10 can have their own subforums as well.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I think this will have to wait...

Read the wiki page for migration and you see how much more is left for the Community to migrate over... Of course that doesn't include the possibility of a second migration if the current Nokia-sponsored hardware is too expensive to be sustained...


As for the topic itself, what you mean by top-level sub-forum I don't get it... We can have IMO a sub-forum for Sailfish since its Jolla and can be brought on our current deivce(s), Mer is another issue altogether... This I think has to be pushed on from Council to a vote or something to determine what is the consensus...

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Nemo is already brought to N900 and N9. And the only reason Sailfish can do the same is the fact that it's based on Mer and Nemo already did most of the work. So I don't see why Sailfish should be given more status than Nemo or Mer itself. They are all quite strongly related, with Nemo and Sailfish being end user OS, and Mer being their base. So I think Mer deserves a subforum, with Nemo, Sailfish and Plasma Active subsections. Plasma Active shouldn't be ignored by the way.

I'm not sure if TMO allows such subections though (i.e more than one level). For me something like this makes sense:

-> Systems
-->> Mer
--->>> Sailfish
--->>> Nemo Mobile
--->>> Plasma Active
-->> Ubuntu Mobile
-->> Blackberry OS
...

In the future, if Nemo and Sailfish will merge (it's an expected possibility if Sailfish will become fully open), their sections can be merged as well.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Perhaps. But first it would have to be decided if Qt is the deciding factor, or if it's open source ideology. Blackberry is a nice platform, but it is very closed and not open source at all (except of course the Qt part).

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Yep, I'm not so interested in BB10 since it's closed. Open WebOS or Firefox OS while being very different are fully open on the other hand. So if the forum will be dedicated to open mobile systems and devices which can run them - Qt won't be the primary decisive factor. This is a question to the community I guess.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I reckon we should keep focus on: Maemo 4/5/6x, MeR-based distros, Ubuntu, & maybe BBX (but I have my doubts there).
That should be it for starters IMO... Later we can maybe branch out to include: FFOS/Tizen/OpenWebOS etc.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Even Jolla's plugging XDA nowadays, as they already have a dedicated sub-forum. :-/
http://www.facebook.com/JollaMobile/...89237821102365
Doesn't seem to have anywhere near the following that the new Ubuntu sub-forum already has.
Overall XDA forum structure viewable from here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/index.php

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I hope admins will address this as soon as migration will be complete.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I made a similar proposal here.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Ah yes I recall that thread, as a separate issue I raised this in that thread.*
Longer-term it makes sense to go to a different domain name, or at the very least a different site name.

*it was discussed in much more depth in the "name our NFP entity" thread.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

@ivgalvez: So you think it should be done only after the domain change? I worry that Sailfish will arrive before that, and it will contribute to the current mess on the forum. What is the problem with restructuring already now?

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I don't think they're against doing it before any domain name change, if we eventually go there.
Domain change seems to have been almost totally absent from most Councillor/BoD members minds since, forever.
If anything, forum restructure has been way further up the priority list...

Agreed though that we need to become a more well-rounded & inviting dev/testers community ASAP.
Part of that is being inclusive of platforms that are closely related ASAP, we should be looking at XDA carefully for a (rough) model on how to succeed.
Being forever Maemo 4/5/6 centric isn't a recipe for longer-term vibrancy/success, keeping the maemo.org domain long-term retains that narrow focus.
But that's not something that needs to change any time soon, more pressing is re-organizing TMO to support more than just Maemo 4-6x.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I think re-structuring can be done once migration is all over but domain change should be held back; we are TMO and I don't see why it should be changed when welcoming new OSes just for political correctness...

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

But we're not Maemo 4-6x, future vibrancy will ultimately be around Sailfish, Plasma, Ubuntu etc. We have an opportunity to become the hub for all those platforms...
Sure they'll ultimately have their own little community hubs, but maemo.org (later maybe something else) can become the glue that binds them, & increase LT chances of good interoperability.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Well this place is famous for maemo and adding support for others is good... Domain change can be suggested only in the event when Maemo devices are dead or have no development etc but currently both the N9(00) are actively receiving love so it doesn't make sense at all even in the medium term... Long term we all have no idea of what those new platforms will look like too so its a bit too presumptuous to jump onto domain change...

Agreed. :) Couldn't have said it better. It would keep the memories of maemo :')

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

The forum is great as is. No need to change anything..

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I fail to see why it "can only be suggested in the event that N9(?0) is dead or no dev is occurring"...
That ignores the fact that there'll be quite a few more devices injected into the system over the nexr yr+ which won't be represented by such a domain/site_name...
This community won't be as vibrant as it can be 1yr+ from now if it doesn't treat MeR relatives (+ maybe a few others) as equal citizens, they should increasingly become the priority in-fact.
At the moment the problem seems to be that "medium term" & "longer term" is not clearly defined as a time-frame.
Anyway all this is off-topic (thanks to me), later in the year there can be a separate discussion about domain/site_name change.
When I last spoke to council about it, they felt it was best to be more closely looked at well after the migration completed.
I'm not entirely sure of the wisdom in that, but maybe it is the best way overall....

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I still don't understand why to treat other OSes as equal citizens we need the domain name changed... Maemo is our legacy and ask those at Jolla who are from here and they will tell you they are proud to be associated with maemo...

Also please no such thing as "priority in-fact", at one point you say equal citizens now you want them to be treated as priority? IMO sub-forums and enough space for the OSes is fair just like its fair for Maemo devices; anything additional to that like domain change is just unnecessary... You don't invite someone to your house and transfer your home's deed to them right?


Also, sub-forums is more than enough considering NONE of the other OSes are even stable and on commercially available devices...

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Yes, just as much as they are proud to be assoc. with meego (proper), nemo, mer & it's derivatives etc, which is also "our legacy".
Your point is?

Try re-reading what I wrote, "increasingly a priority in-fact", that's a simple reality, you don't get that?

You seem to be loitering between; "it's an option longer-term" & "no I just dont want it period, & wouldn't even welcome a informed discussion about it at some point"
Which are you?

This is a misleading/poor analogy, I'm not suggesting naming the site_name or domain after one of those projects, I'm suggesting a meta site/community of sorts, one that encapsulates them.

This is were time-frames comes in, who's saying anything about considering/doing this tomorrow.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I get it jalyst but I don't the zeal with which you come out with changing domain name to accommodate something new which has not even been released commercially/widely...

Do you mean just because these new OSes come out they should be given increased priority and a domain change should occur while all the time dis-regarding the people who are still supporting the N9(00)? We have zero idea on how new OSes will perform, how open they are, do they want their Community to be based here etc...

While we do know that those supporting N9(00) will support it here not in another place so the N9(00) should not face the domains being changed for something that hasn't achieved something similar...

I'm disappointed to see you of all people being so zealous with something (domain change) that majority of Community wouldn't want at least for the next 6 months especially when you have been around the Maemo-MeeGo fiascos...


Edit: You have edited your post to add more so I'll just answer to the following:
My point is simple this topic is re-structuring the forum, you said that the Board/Council have put this way above changing domain name... Changing domain name when things are still on-going here well seems not sensible to me... Like all wise men say never say never so I have never and will never refuse an informed discussion about it but that discussion to be held currently is pointless considering the circumstances... A sensible discussion would be around re-structuring the forum not the changing of domain at this point of time and at least for the next 6 months IMO...


Also all the above are my views/opinions; since you feel its gone off-topic and you want to carry on this discussion feel free to do so via PM :)

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

There is no need to change this forum. Changing the domain name is a little silly. Ubuntu in particular already has a massive established community.

I don't want to see maemo.org change focus to all of this unrelated stuff. I am a Maemo user, not a 'whatever is on engadget this week' person. What is wrong with having a place focus on Maemo? Why is there some invisible mandate to change ourselves over to some other thing? Who will pay the server bills for that?

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I don't see why we really need a domain change either. I love talk.maemo :') Best community I've been in. We can accomodate the other OSes in subforums, or even main topics, if it has a priority that high. Maemo will live as long as people believe in it. Long live maemo!

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

It's not the "popular opinion", never has been, but I personally see it as (potentially) the best direction longer-term (approx. by 1yr from now).
Having said that, I'm fine with keeping domain/site_name as is, so long as there's been a robust discussion that comes to the conclusion that it's the optimal approach LT.
A discussion that has plenty "for" and "against" arguments, and sees a majority of folks arguing for, & voting for, the status-quo.
It's way too early to be at the point where we have that discussion, which is what I've been alluding too since my very 1st post on this.
Then there's the fact that such a discussion isn't even intended for this thread, my mea culpa for injecting it into this one...
What I find odd, is opinions that want to rule-out such conceptions, long before we're even at a point where we can make reasonable assessments.

100% agreed.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

So, the idea is to risk sacrificing our identity and the very things which brought us here in an attempt to become 'more relevant' (i.e. hitch ourselves to whatever is the latest bandwagon to come rolling along). No thanks.

We should, at the very least, wait until there is something tangible to shift our attention to, and until that something can be considered a genuine improvement over what we already have. 18 months ago, there was talk of MeeGo being the obvious path for the future. Maemo was the past. Now we're hearing the same talk again about Jolla and Sailfish. In another 18 months, it could well be something else. It's folly.

To be clear, I'm not against the discussion of alternatives. Quite the opposite. But I'm certainly not in favour of diluting the focus on the Maemo platform and devices, and therefore possibly alienating the committed Maemo user base, just so that we can attract the dilittantes that may well disappear when the next shiny arrives.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I have a suggestion. Posting applications or games are getting confusing. Sometimes, it's in Games. Sometimes, it's in Applications. And Sometimes, it's in each respective OS or Hardware. I think this is slightly unhelpful, Maybe unify posting programs into one main topic called Programs, or something. And within that, developers who post the program should be required to put tags like [Games], or [App], or something.

Also tags should be used more often, as it's hard for readers, like me, to find topics. For example, someone might post (Half life on N9) and I will instantaneously look at it. However, in there would be a question, which annoys me.


PS: It's my 200th post woohoo!

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

A-fvcking-men to that. :)

http://prsociety.files.wordpress.com...ved1.jpg?w=600

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I'm not sure how you're getting that, what don't you understand about what I said...

Well I'm in total agreement that we need at least one of the nextgen Qt devices (most likely Jolla's Sailfish) in end-users hands before the debate/assessment begins.
Why does focus have to shift, who said anything about that, why can't there be multiple focuses (each dev/tester chooses their poison[s]) that are beneficial for the Qt biosphere as-a-whole?
This site won't have big backers for the foreseeable future, Jolla may not even be around in 1yr, becoming a "glue-like" community for FOSS Qt handset projects* is a way to bolster LT relevance.
Whilst also serving to enable far better coordination/cooperation between the different camps, and possibly even attain the Nirvana that is "wide-ranging API compatibility".
That one's always going to be a long-shot of course, but I think maemo.org's very well placed to be the conduit for that sort of thing, alongside qt-project etc.
Spreading it even wider to some of the HTML5-centric projects may even make sense LT, especially given that Maemo5-6x/Sailfish/Ubuntu/Plasma all have it as a secondary focus.
But that should be quite a bit further down the line IMO....

Neither am I.....

*ones that are closest to being truly FOSS, which probably excludes BBX, but includes Maemo 5/6x, Nemo, Sailfish, Plasma, Ubuntu etc

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I disagree with those who said there is no need to restructure the forum. Looking at Harmattan and/or Competitors / Offtopics sections mess disproves this notion. No section for Mer derivatives may not bother those who use Maemo only, or Harmattan only, because they don't care. But those who use them have no place to post and discuss current developments. There is no reason to prevent it, except just to annoy people. Why do that? And don't be arrogant. A lot of people will appear soon who don't know or care about Maemo, and neither about Harmattan, but are interested in new platforms like Sailfish or Plasma Active. You don't welcome them on the forum? Or you propose them to post in Harmattan section, or may be in Offtopics? Think about that before saying there is no need to restructure anything.

Eventually who makes the decision on restructuring anyway?

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I haven't seen a single post of anyone saying "no need to restructure anything" :confused:

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I saw a whole bunch of these posts above:

and etc. supporting comments about no need to restructure now, until much later. The point it - if not now, the mess will become much worse, and people won't be interested in discussing stuff here.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Well if you listen to AMD for anything then you need to think again :)

khm's main point seems to be about the domain change if you read it in context and he was showing you don't need to change focus like changing underwear...

I earlier on suggested restructuring to be put off till all migration is complete as surely Board+Council have enough on their plate to keep lights on instead of thinking about this; but I don't see a problem in a discussion happening now... Its good for ideas to be thrown around and maybe Council can decide on next election or whatever to have a vote etc for it...


Also weren't you the one who has been pushing to discuss things on opentablets.org since quite some while stating many reasons? I went there and registered when you were pushing for it and an acceptance email never arrived and now it says:
So maybe its better to get things right with proper critiques instead of becoming emotional and leading to a lights off scenario? Taking this in khm's context seems even more apt; don't you think so?

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I proposed OpenTablets as an alternative in case the restructuring here would never happen. Unfortunately that forum is closing now, due to admins having some other issues, so don't count on it for anything.

I'm all for making things right here, but timing can be an important factor if you consider (hopefully) close Sailfish arrival.