infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

Re: Next Migration Official Council-to-Board Recommendation
Von:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
An:
Alexander Kozhevnikov <mentalisttraceur@xxxxxxx>
Kopie:
board@maemo.org, "council@maemo.org" <council@maemo.org>, Falk Stern <falk@xxxxxxx>
Datum:
2013-02-17 21:39


Hi

Board has decided to pursue hosting with IPHH. This is not a done deal,
but we want to pursue the matter and thank Council for its work. We have
rejected Hertzner and Nemein as options. OSUOSL remains an option if
something becomes undesirablee with IPHH for some unexpected reason. If
council has time, please respond to OSUOSL re technical questions. The
Board notes it has had no direct contact from IPHH, and has authorized and
appointed me to review the hosting contract and execute it if advisable.
Please have Joerg or Falk ask IPHH to contact me about formalities. The
official address of Hildon Foundation is 120 West 10th Street, Erie, PA,
16501, USA.


On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Alexander Kozhevnikov <
mentalisttraceur@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hello Board members,
>
> After considering the current infrastructure/migration situation, and
> the options before us all, we in the Council have decided to recommend
> to the Board the following course of action for the impending
> migration. We realize that the final decision and authority in this
> matter lies with you, of course, and merely propose this course of
> action because it is our belief that this is the best way forward,
> given our understanding of the situation and our options.
>
> The Council believes that the best option out of the ones available to
> us is the one offered by IPHH.
>
> A brief review of what you most likely already know, that lead us to
> this decision:
>
> The costs, to HiFo, are as follows:
> - ~€400 initial setup, including a small hardware upgrade to add
> another ~2TB of storage.
>
Not a problem necessarily, but the 2TB storage should be paid for by
Nokia. Did Council mention the additional 2TB to Nemein or that 1TB was
not sufficient? What, if anything, did Nemein say? Nokia told us they
would provide whatever servers were necessary. What part of the 400 euros
is represented by the 2TB? D


> - No cost for the hosting for the first year.
> - A "couple crates of beer" for Falk and his friends at IPHH that made
> this happen.
> - Give credit to IPHH for their free hosting on the maemo.org website
> -- They are not expecting any banner ads or anything of the sort
> anywhere, in fact, this is just a friendly good-faith requirement,
> without any expectations. The Council recommends mentioning them by
> footnote in maemo.org, and perhaps featuring them prominently on the
> donator/contributor page of the Hildon Foundation website.
> The advantages, to HiFo, are:
> - Falk Stern, who the HiFo Board has already approved as our systems
> operator/administrator, presently lives within brief travel distance
> of the facility where our server would be located.
> - The people making the offer are on friendly terms with Falk, and
> also wish to see Maemo continue.
> - This solution is vastly cheaper than staying with Nemein, cheaper
> for us than Hetzner, and slightly cheaper than OSUOSL. It is more
> practical than either of those options, because of the aforementioned
> fact that with IPHH, our own administrator will have on-site access.
>
OK. We have narrowed our options to two.


> It is also the most feasible, because:
> - Under the current circumstances, while Nemein still formally
> controls the server and all of the Maemo assets, a solution that they
> support/prefer to enact, is extremely beneficial. As far as we know,
> Nemein does not consider Hetzner or OSUOSL to be valid alternatives.
> As such, we may not even have a realistic chance of getting Nemein to
> begin the migration to either of those other solutions before
> 2013-03-01.
>
The Board will do what it thinks is best for Hildon Foundation. Hopefully,
Nemein, will cooperate with whatever decision we make.


>
> That said, we make the following recommendations as far as Board action:
>
> - As soon as possible, send an e-mail to Nemein telling them you have
> no objections to proceeding with shipping the server Nokia donated for
> us from their facilities, to Falk.
>
I will send an email to Nemein authorizing shipment of the hw as soon as
possible, but it will be sent to IPHH rather than Falk.


> -- Since you have already approved Falk as a sysop/administrator, and
> you have significant personal information on him, which should help
> alleviate any accountability concerns you may have.
>
We did not do a background check on Falk and have no personal information
on him, and have put trust in his recommendation by Council.


> -- Furthermore, because our server is just the hardware, and at that,
> hardware still formally owned by Nemein until they transfer ownership
> to us, this server move can be made legally and safely long before
> Nokia signs any agreement to transfer control of the various
> digital/'virtual' infrastructure resources/assets to the Hildon
> Foundation.


Nemein does not own the hardware, but since they are willing to move it
now, it is a moot issue.

-- Eero has clearly stated to us that the server can be shipped to
> Falk at any time, they just need an informal e-mail from a Board
> representative okay-ing the transfer, and even then, not so much
> because they need permission at this time (given that this is still
> their server legally), but because they need to make sure that once
> the time does come to transfer server ownership, they don't have a
> situation where the server was shipped without the Board's being aware
> about it's destination.
>
Because the Foundation owns the hardware, the Board has to approve when and
where it is shipped/located.


> -- We recommend you have Cosimo and Joerg coordinate to initiate the
> shipping from Nemein once Nemein has received Board's e-mail. Joerg is
> willing to do it himself, and can front the shipping costs assuming he
> is eventually reimbursed sometime in the future.
>
The Board's email will tell Nemein that Cosimo and/or Joerg will oversee
the shipment. Reasonable shipping costs incurred by Joerg will be
reimbursed by the Foundation.


>
> - Attempt to arrange for Nemein to transfer the virtual
> resources/assets of the infrastructure onto that server once it has
> been set up, with the understanding/agreement that they, Nemein, are
> still formally in control of those virtual assets until Nokia signs
> them over to you. That way, neither you nor Nemein violate any laws or
> agreements. Since the server is still formally Nemein's until such a
> time as they transfer ownership. Similarly, the virtual assets
> themselves is still merely hosted by Nemein on a remote colocated
> server, and we are still managing those assets only with their
> blessing, as we have been.
>
> OK. Be aware that the contract with Nokia appears to be delayed (on their
side) and this may or may not last past March 01.


> Sincerely,
> Alexander Kozhevnikov
> "Mentalist Traceur"
>








Re: maemo.org hosting and maintenance paid by Nokia
Von:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
An:
Eero af Heurlin <eero.afheurlin@xxxxxxx>
Kopie:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>, board@hildonfoundation.org, Maemo Community Council <council@maemo.org>, Falk Stern <falk@xxxxxxx>
Datum:
2013-02-18 05:25


We have decided to ship the hw. I will forward the shipping address once
we have the hosting paperwork.

In the meantime, it appears that 1TB of storage is insufficient and we need
another 2TB of storage. Can the additional 2TB be included as part of the
hardware donated by Nokia?


On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:42 AM, robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi Eero,
>
> Thanks for the message. Please be advised that Nokia has not yet signed
> the contract with the Foundation, but we may proceed nonetheless. The
> Board is meeting on this tomorrow and we'll have an answer for you then.
>
> Rob
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:08 AM, Eero af Heurlin <
> eero.afheurlin@nemeinxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Hello.
>>
>> We're running out of time with regards to what to do with with the
>> hardware. Joerg has outlined IMO a good plan to get the HW co-located at
>> IPHH for free.
>>
>> So your options are:
>>
>> 1. Greenlight shipping of the HW to IPHH and we'll help Falk & co to
>> migrate services there.
>>
>> 2. Greenlight HW colo in our rack (at cost specified in the quote, due
>> to setup costs we will need 6month contract minimum) and we'll setup a
>> minimal base system so Falk & co can log in and then help them with
>> service migration.
>>
>> 3. Starting in March pay for the hosting of the current
>> VM-infrastructure as per the quotation I sent you.
>>
>> 4. Rent a server from where-ever Falk deems fit and we'll help Falk & co
>> to migrate services there. But you will need to have that server up and
>> running *very* soon or it will be April before anything is migrated.
>>
>> 5. Starting in March shutdown services.
>>
>> As long as the service migration is properly started (our
>> interpretation) before March we can have some leniency with the VM
>> hosting costs. If everything is migrated before 15th of March and we can
>> reuse the resources those VMs currenly use, we can waive the hosting
>> cost for March.
>>
>> If there is no answer before monday 18th of February 0900 Finnish time,
>> we'll suppose option 1 is accepted (since it's by a wide margin the
>> cheapest option for HiFo that will still keep services up and running).
>>
>> /Eero








Fwd: [IPHH #442659] maemo.org
Von:
Falk Stern <falk@xxxxxx>
An:
"board@maemo.org" <board@maemo.org>, robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
Kopie:
Maemo Community Council <council@maemo.org>, joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
Datum:
2013-02-18 13:35


Hi everyone,

these are the details, what IPHH is willing to offer us.

Best regards,

Falk

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Rene Sasse <support@iphhxxxx
> Subject: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
> Date: 18. Februar 2013 11:08:33 MEZ
> To: falk@xxxxxxx
> Cc: joerg@openmoko.org
>
> Falk,
>
> IPHH offers the following services to Hildon Foundation for one year free of
> charge:
>
> * Colocation/electricity for the following devices:
> - 1 Server (2RU)
> - 1 Switch (1RU)
> * 1 100MBit/s Uplink Port
> * A /27 IPv4 Network
>
> This offer is valid for one year and has to be discussed for renewal after 11
> month.
>
> Legal Contact will be:
>
> Hildon Foundation
> xxx West xxxx Street, Erie, PA, xxxx, USA
>
> Technical Contact will be:
>
> Falk Stern (FS7182-RIPE)
> xxxxx-xxxx-Straße xx, xxxx Bardoxxxx, Germany
> Mobile: +49-160-71x
>
>
> best regards
> Rene
>
> --
> Rene Sasse E-Mail: support@iphhxxxx
> Technical Consultant Tel: +49 (0)40 374xx
> IPHH Internet Port Hamburg GmbH Fax: +49 (0)40 374xx
> Wendenstrasse 408 AG Hamburg, HRB 76071
> D-20537 Hamburg Geschaeftsfuehrung: Axel G. Kroeger--7E94C7404EC25FD69CC85C3653348297










Re: Third server
Von:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
An:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
Kopie:
Falk Stern <falk@xxxxxxx>, Maemo Community Council <council@maemo.org>, board@hildonfoundation.org
Datum:
2013-02-19 18:11

Please have any shipments go to IPHH, not to Falk personally.








Re: [IPHH #442659] maemo.org
Von:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
An:
Falk Stern <falk@xxxxxxx>, support@iphhxxxxx
Kopie:
"board@maemo.org" <board@maemo.org>, Maemo Community Council <council@maemo.org>, joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
Datum:
2013-02-19 18:19

Dear Rene/IPHH,

On behalf of Hildon Foundation, thank you so much for your kind offer to
support our maemo.org project by allowing us to locate our server in your
facility and providing hosting service free of charge. Please send me a
hosting contract in English. We are in the process of itemizing the
hardware and hope to have the complete list by the time we sign the
contract.

Rob

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Falk Stern <falk@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> these are the details, what IPHH is willing to offer us.
[....truncated....]






Re: Third server
Von:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
An:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
Kopie:
Falk Stern <falk@xxxxxxx>, Maemo Community Council <council@maemo.org>, board@hildonfoundation.org
Datum:
2013-02-19 18:24

Already done, accordingly ;-)
/j

Am Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:11:16 schrieb robert bauer:
> Please have any shipments go to IPHH, not to Falk personally.










Re: [IPHH #442659] maemo.org
Von:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
An:
Falk Stern <falk@xxxxxxx>, support@iphhxxxx, joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
Kopie:
"board@maemo.org" <board@maemo.org>, Maemo Community Council <council@maemo.org>
Datum:
2013-02-20 23:57

Hello,

Unfortunately, I have several time obligations over the next few days and
then a business trip to New York. I don't want to hold things up. It is
important that the hosting contract from IPHH be sent to me as soon as
possible if we are to proceed with IPHH.

Rob

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 12:19 PM, robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> Dear Rene/IPHH,
>
> On behalf of Hildon Foundation, thank you so much for your kind offer to
[....truncated....]









[IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
Von:
Rene Sasse <support@iphhxxxx>
An:
nybauer@xxxxxxx
Kopie:
board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org
Datum:
2013-02-21 09:11

rob,

No worries! There will be no 'real contract'...
We will deliver the requestet services for maemo.org as listed below.

Just give me a short "okay, your offer is fine with me.".

Best regards
Rene

[---signature scrubbed---]
---- Original message ----

> Hello,
>
> Unfortunately, I have several time obligations over the next few days and
[....truncated....]

Re: infra migration and the buerocracy - who kills maemo?
 

Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
To:
support@iphhxxxx
CC:
board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org
Date:
2013-02-21 14:14

Renee,

Unfortunately, I am only authorized to review and sign a contract. Because
we will be forwarding our servers to IPHH, the Foundation wants to be sure
that the servers will be returned upon request. Please let me know if it
is possible to forward a contract. If not, then I have to go back to the
Board which will delay everything and I don't want to do that.

Rob






Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
To:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
CC:
support@iphh.net, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-23 22:21

Dear Renee,

Can you please let me know whether or not it is possible for you to forward
a hosting contract? Thanks.

Rob








Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
To:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxx>
CC:
support@iphhxxxx, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-23 22:56

Robert,

we discussed that topic with Falk and Rene, and the main problem is: IPHH
handing out a proper hosting contract ensues IPHH's obligation to pay ~20% VAT
to such contract's nominal value, even when the actual value requested from
HiFo is zero. Obviously no option for IPHH.
OTOH we completely understand that HiFo needs to secure their assets.
IPHH will send a receipt&possession confirmation document to HiFo next week. If
that's not sufficient for HiFo to secure their assets and fulfill legal
requirements, IPHH could send a official contract for server STORAGE for one
year, with a value of whatever you like to pay to make this a real contract
(suggestion: $20 for one year). This would clearly document that the server is
at IPHH and IPHH takes care of it, but HiFo is owner and has full control over
the server.
Please tell us what you think.

cheers
jOERG








Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
To:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
CC:
support@iphh.xxx, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-24 03:23

On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 4:56 PM, joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>wrote:

> Robert,
>
> we discussed that topic with Falk and Rene, and the main problem is: IPHH
> handing out a proper hosting contract ensues IPHH's obligation to pay ~20%
> VAT
> to such contract's nominal value, even when the actual value requested from
> HiFo is zero. Obviously no option for IPHH.
>

Can HiFO pay the 20% VAT? Would it be about a 100 euros/month?


> OTOH we completely understand that HiFo needs to secure their assets.
> IPHH will send a receipt&possession confirmation document to HiFo next
> week.


What is a "receipt&possession confirmation document"? Is it any kind of
contract? Or does it just confirm delivery of the server? My guess is
Board will probably want a contract before March 1. "next week" isn't
specific. Do you have an idea which day next week the server will be
received so we can sort this out by then?



> If that's not sufficient for HiFo to secure their assets and fulfill legal
> requirements, IPHH could send a official contract for server STORAGE for
> one
> year, with a value of whatever you like to pay to make this a real contract
> (suggestion: $20 for one year). This would clearly document that the
> server is
> at IPHH and IPHH takes care of it, but HiFo is owner and has full control
> over
> the server.
> Please tell us what you think.
>
The only instruction and authority I had was for a hosting contract. The
alternatives have to go to the Board. Personally, I want to see the
documents and then I'll say what I think of them.

Rob






Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
To:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxx>
CC:
support@iphh.xxx, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-24 03:31

2013-02-23 22:40:11] <DocScrutinizer05> werd empfangsbescheinigung und
moeglichen einlagerungsvertrag anbieten
[2013-02-23 22:40:34] <warfare> Empfangs & Aushändigungsbestätigung kriegt er
nächste Woche.
[2013-02-23 22:40:40] <DocScrutinizer05> ersteres unconditional fuer naechstze
woche
[2013-02-23 22:40:45] <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
[2013-02-23 22:41:14] <warfare> Sobald ich wieder im Büro bin, da hab ich nen
Scanner.

[translation:]
He'll receive a receipt&hand-over confirmation next week
[...]
As soon as I'm in my office again, there's a scanner
[afaik Falk will be in his office on Tuesday, as on Monday he has a day off for
working on our server]

More tomorrow
/j




Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
To:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
CC:
support@iphh.xxx, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-24 03:56

On a sidenote: this is *not* about any *contract* , this is a *donation* of
free service instead of money, on a totally voluntary basis without anything
they demand for it.
You want to reject it because of missing contract papers wrapped around it?
You demand a contract from a donor? Would you do same for money donations?
For maintainers donating their manpower and time? Do you think any donor would
be willing to sign a contract that possibly puts them into a position where
you could sue them for not fulfilling it? Server STORAGE is the best "contract"
you might get from any donor offering free CoLo hosting, since bylaws for CoLo
contracts include warranted things like quality of service and whatnot that
nobody can or will guarantee for a donation. Otherwise they would risk to be
liable for e.g. any downtime, and HiFo suing them for compensation of damage
caused by such downtime. I don't see this happen for any CoLo donor.

BTW the guys at IPHH are benevolent technicians and geeks and maemo fans, to
them paperwork is a horror I guess. I'm afraid we risk to scare and annoy
them to a point where they just take our server and throw it on the street and
inform us to pick it up there whenever we like to - just my 2 cents. HiFo
approach to those guys is perceived as a rather hostile one here.

/j





Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
To:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
CC:
support@iphh.xxx, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-24 04:18

OOPS, I completely ignored that little detail since it's so completely not of
my world:


On Sun 24 February 2013 03:23:17 robert bauer wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 4:56 PM, joerg Reisenweber
<joerg@openmoko.org>wrote:
> > Robert,
> >
> > we discussed that topic with Falk and Rene, and the main problem is: IPHH
> > handing out a proper hosting contract ensues IPHH's obligation to pay
> > ~20% VAT
> > to such contract's nominal value, even when the actual value requested
> > from HiFo is zero. Obviously no option for IPHH.
>
> Can HiFO pay the 20% VAT? Would it be about a 100 euros/month?
>
> > OTOH we completely understand that HiFo needs to secure their assets.
> > IPHH will send a receipt&possession confirmation document to HiFo next
> > week.
>
> What is a "receipt&possession confirmation document"? Is it any kind of
> contract? Or does it just confirm delivery of the server? My guess is
> Board will probably want a contract before March 1. "next week" isn't
> specific. Do you have an idea which day next week the server will be
> received so we can sort this out by then?

The server already GOT DELIVERED on Wednesday, got mounted to rack on Friday,
and Friday and today Falk installed the system and virtualization (XEN) to
both blades, and also the firewalls. Again: please refer to
http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_C...Infrastructure
which is supposed to have all the details rather up-to-date.
We can't afford HiFo acting and taking decisions on obsolete and inaccurate
facts. All the correct info is out there for you to look up.


/j





Re: hosting agreement
From:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxx>
To:
board@maemo.org, support@iphh.net, Falk Stern <falk@fourecks.de>
CC:
council@maemo.org, joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
Date:
2013-02-24 13:54

sigh... Without a hosting contract from IPHH, the Board will need to
decide next step(s). Here again is the Board's clear decision that setting
up the server at IPHH was dependent on a hosting contract

- OSUOSL <http://osuosl.org>: Very reputable.– No contact in last week.
- IPHH <http://www.iphh.net>: Very reasonable terms (free).
- Will send contract soon.
- Rob to execute contract if the terms (especially about the hardware)
are agreeable.
- If IPHH’s contract is good, we will go with them.

Hosting contract will be needed in regards to collocated contract.

http://hildonfoundation.org/board-mi...ruary-17-2013/


*To Board,
*I attempted to execute the hosting contract with IPHH, but that is not
available. I had no direct contact with IPHH other than two emails with
Renee at support@iphh.net on which you have been copied. I do not know
firsthand whether or not they regard the request for a contract in the
negative manner that Joerg has described. I did have contact last week
from the Director at OSUOSL, who received technical details from Michael
and Alexander of maemo council and who indicated he will send a contract
soon. This is my report on the task that I was given above, which I regard
as being at an end.

*To Renee/support@iphh.xxx,
*Please send whatever paperwork you wish. And please excuse the
inconvenience if you were lead to believe that the situation was any
different than what is indicated above. We appreciate your support and
someone from Hildon Foundation will contact you with respect to our servers
once we have reviewed your paperwork. Thank you again for your patience
and kind offer of assistance.
*
**To Falk,
I suggest you not risk your time setting up the server at IPHH until this
gets resolved. Despite what Joerg may have done and will do, the Board
still has a decision to make and may decide to have hosting out of OSUOSL.
*

On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 9:56 PM, joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>wrote:

> On a sidenote: this is not about any *contract*, this is a donation of
> free service instead of money, on a totally voluntary basis without






=====================================
comment: *I* haven't decided anything! I suggested and I forwarded. Seems something is going terribly wrong here, up to you to decide what.

Re: infra migration and the buerocracy - who kills maemo?
 

Re: hosting agreement
From:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
To:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxx>
CC:
board@maemo.org, support@iphh.xxx, Falk Stern <falk@xxxxx>, council@maemo.org
Date:
2013-02-24 17:15

On Sun 24 February 2013 13:54:58 robert bauer wrote:
> sigh... Without a hosting contract from IPHH, the Board will need to
> decide next step(s). Here again is the Board's clear decision that setting
> up the server at IPHH was dependent on a hosting contract

We suggested a server storage contract that would make absolutely sure that
HiFo expects IPHH to hand out the server eventually, you ignored it.

Well, you want a contract and AIUI you want IPHH to sign it. What we suggest
is not good enough for you, and we don't understand what precisely you need
since a HOSTING never been offered. It's always been about CoLocation.

So, since here in Europe it's usually the party asking for the other party's
signature that provides the contract, why don't you write a hosting contract
that would fulfill all your requirements and send it to IPHH for signature?
I guess such contract would include "you (IPHH) received a server
<model><serial-number> from us (HiFo) and by signing this contract you agree
to hand it back to us any time we ask for it". Anything else?

(honestly I think a receipt&hand-over confirmation would suffice for that purpose
here in EU, but whatever you feel you need beyond that, just write it into a
contract and send it to council for check, then let it sign by IPHH)

BR
jOERG
--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments

Re: infra migration and the buerocracy - who kills maemo?
 

"*To Board" <--- What's this?

SD69,
I hope you remember only you and Tim are in the Board currently so you are not reporting to a mass of people but discussing things with only ONE other person.

How hard is it to make a swift decision instead of risking things going offline just because you don't use/own a N900 currently so you don't have anything to lose while the 30 odd thousand active N900s would suffer from blackouts because of yours and Tim's arrogance in running an organization that's supposed to be for the benefit of the Community-at-large instead of your own personal fiefdoms.

Kindly wake up, smell the coffee and stop adding to the Community's travails with your actions.

Thanks!

Re: infra migration and the buerocracy - who kills maemo?
 

Please, can we have a summary?

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

Sorry, I puposely don't summarize any of the above, since any such summary would feel suspicious of being biased and might hide any big misconception I suffered. So pretty please take the burden and read the original story, then make your own summary and maybe let us know.

I really solicit review and criticism, since this is too important to let it fail due to anybody not getting the catch. That's why I went public with it. A summary won't help for that.

/j

Re: infra migration and the buerocracy - who kills maemo?
 

A couple of us were succesful in getting Nokia to donate $7K of server hardware.

Joerg offered to be admin of maemo.org and recommended a few possible hosting places.

Board agreed to most preferred host and assigned me to ensure that we have a hosting contract to ensure we can always get our hw back.

But most preferred hosting place declines to provide a hosting contract.

Joerg resorts to hyperbole when he realizes Board might use a recommended host that will provide a hosting contract instead of.the otherwise MOST preferred host.

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

@SD69 - AIUI you don't need hosting contract to be assured "we" will get our HW back. You don't sign hosting contract with a warehouse (for example), it is a different kind of document.

EDIT:

Not to say that "hosting" and "colocation" are different things.

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

So how can move forward from this state?

Re: infra migration and the buerocracy - who kills maemo?
 

Rob,
I suggested to you to write a contract of whatever kind you think is needed and send it to IPHH after council has reviewed it. I can't figure any better contract than that. And it basically always been like this since Rene clearly stated that IPHH does _not_ insist on any contract but is willing to help you out with whatever paper you might need, as long as you clearly state what that paper shall be. HOSTING however is not an option since HOSTING and COLOCATION are fundamentally mutually exclusive. We suggested you go for a server STORAGE contract that would guarantee your ownership and control over the HW but would not put IPHH on peril you eventually sue them for that brownout that causes maemo.org to go down for 3h, something that would be covered by their insurance if HiFo had a *real* CoLo (or hosting) contract with them. You ignored that suggestion. WHY???
You just constantly insist in your nonsensical HOSTING contract that is not even applicable for this type of service. We are NOT renting servers from IPHH (=hosting), nor are we asking for their administration (=managed hosting), since we are doing COLOCATION with our own hw and our own sysop at site. Now please rethink, instead of accusing me of going hyperbole!

Just one sidenote: you're aware that when Nemein *would* shut down the current infra at 2013-03-01 it will be down forever and nobody can force it come back anywhere ever if Nemein decide to clean up and re-use their resources?

Please stay cool and wait until Tuesday when Falk will forward the receipt&hand-over document to you! Evaluate it, when it doesn't meet your requirements, come back and tell us what else you need.

No more to say.

cheers
jOERG

[edit]
NielDK sent:

Reading though this whole contract Niel provided via that URL, eliminating everything that's somehow related to fees CUSTOMER had to pay or not to pay, or obligations of CUSTOMER that in our case IPHH has generously not requested, it seems those are the only relevant parts for HiFo:

and
and
and
and complete section 7
HTH :-/

According to German jurisdiction the one owning the warranty/bill papers is the owner, and the receipt/hand-over document proves that IPHH is in possession and thus has to hand it out again, on request. Where's the problem?

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

While I've been following the migration on TMO and IRC, I have no inkling what the HF BoD concerns are, or what exactly they are working on... I think that the IPHH option is the best option at the moment to keep the community going, managed and run by the community, with the current funding sources (the community itself).

At the moment, it looks like we have:

- Some hardware that Nokia will donate to HF
- a company (IPHH) willing to offer one year free co-location services to HF/Community
- a volunteer system operator/administrator (warfare/falk) who is able, and willing to get the maemo infrastructure migrated to our hardware running at IPHH, and who actually lives quite close by the new colo facility.

Hildon Foundation Board of Directors, my hope is that you please work quickly and efficiently to get the appropriate safe-guards in place to ensure that hardware ownership is ensured, and also to get the maemo.org infrastructure back up and running quickly. The offer on the table seems the best way forward to a stable, affordale and community run maemo.org infrastructure. Please don't screw it up... you know, gift horses and beggers can't be choosers and all that.

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

1) Someone present a contract for the Board to sign (I can't prepare it as I am traveling)

2) Someone explain to joerg that the way to move forward is something like 1) instead of criticizing people you work with

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

ROB!!
NOBODY of IPHH will present a contract to sign to HiFo since IPHH has no requirements of you signing anything. WTF would you ensure them you will do, with your signature???
Isn't it like YOU want THEM to sign something, or in any other form assure you they will do or not do something? How - for God's grace - will a contract on a paper *you* sign help with that?

We offered you to send you a sever storage contract in which IPHH acknowledges they got a server from you to store at their location for a year, and you can claim it back any time you want. You still ignore that. WHY???
Sorry to criticize you, but criticism where criticism is due. Unless you explain to us mere mortals (in a way we actually can understand and act upon in a reasonable manner) what's the problem in your lawyer's world with all the actually existing alternatives we offered to you, we can't help. We simply can't guess what it is you need. We don't get it.

IPHH will NOT contact their lawyers and ask them to guess what HiFo's lawyer might need and how to write it. This might be the normal way in USA, here we do such things without paying our own lawyer prior to offering a donation. IPHH probably not even HAS an own lawyer. So pretty please excuse when their secretary says "we don't have a ready-made paper for this case, and I don't know how to write one that has a written headline `HOSTING CONTRACT` on it but actually fits the situation which is NOT hosting".

Rob, will you finally comment on that server storage contract proposal (in a useful manner)? And/or on the proposition that your possession of the server bill plus the receipt confirmation is sufficient to reclaim the hw? "Send me whatever you like, do your best guessing what I might need, i'll let you know if I'm happy" is an extremely inpolite and insulting way to approach a donor (and also to approach me, btw). We several times suggested possible options and asked you what you think of them. Each time you either ignored them or answered "send it to me, then I'll tell you what I think" WTF do you think we do all day? Preparing 5000 different versions of papers for you to pick from???
TELL US WHAT YOU NEED, AND DON'T SAY "HOSTING CONTRACT"!

/j

[edit] this sounds to me like: Mother: "Go and buy 3 liters of milk!" Boy comes back after several hours: "there been no 3-liter-milk packages"
[edit2] "not criticizing people you work with" - do you really think this is the right way? Where to start / stop criticizing? With your friends that you don't criticize and rather let them continue whatever criticizable thing they do? With your partner/spouse? With your kids? With yourself?

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

hard to believe what's going on!

rob, does this mean that you spend the money we donated to the foundation for lawyers???

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

I think just that was offered. So let's go that route.

IPHH has apparently offered to setup a storage contract, which contains legal agreements they would be comfortable giving. I suggest we have IPHH send a storage contract to Rob/Tim, along with the receipt and possession document, and see if that doesn't cover all concerns. If that involves a small cost or VAT, be sure to ask them to include that cost with the contract.

Good odds any cost involved will be well under what we would pay for any other solution. Not to mention quite under the cost for single additional month at out current provider if the delay pushes us past the 15th (assuming they even give us the option of that).

Considering the level and tone of conversation you took during Council/Board elections against other Council and Board nominees, I find irony in your statement.

Sometimes criticism is due.

We have a golden opportunity here. Squandering it by demanding legal specific contract terms, which are not required nor fully understood by the Board, from a group that's not familiar with US corporate law, is wasteful.

It's clear to me that there's a gap in terminology, which is probably part cultural, part language, part technical, and part legal. Not the least of which is the Boards misunderstanding of the difference between the terms hosting and collocation, and how those terms differ contractually, both in the US and in Germany.

Joerg, you're doing good work, and it's appreciated. I would ask you to request IPHH to prepare a storage contract, including costs if any, and get that to Rob & Tim. That should give everyone involved at least a starting point.

And please stress to them that this is not because of anything they're doing. Rather is it because US law holds HiFo legally responsible for ensuring the well being of the community, which in great part is reliant on these machines and services. This is why it's important to them to have a signed contract for storage and/or colo, even if that costs a small amount more due to VAT.

Rob, your concerns are valid, and I understand why we need a legal agreement. I think the concept of a storage contract in this instance is quite reasonable, and legally allows HiFo coverage when it comes to equipment liability and community sustainability. When you get the contract from IPHH, please review it and see if there is any additional items we need.

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

No problem, after all I suggested it. Will ask them about it, maybe they already have such contract pre-printed. Otherwise it shouldn't be too hard to write up something. [edit] Oh, and many thanks Woody! :-)

/j

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

Re: Server documents
From: joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
To: Falk Stern <falk@xxxxxxx>
CC: "board@maemo.org" <board@maemo.org>, robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>, Maemo Community Council <council@maemo.org>, Woodward Craig <woody14619@xxxxxxx>
Date: 2013-02-26 20:16

Hi all

As promised for Tuesday, this is the letter about sent goods (server) from Nemein (aiui,
Finnish language), IPHHs confirmation for the delivery and handover, and the
DHL shipping letter.

This is NOT YET the server storage contract we plan to send to HiFo one of the
next days (need to prepare such contract since usually IPHH doesn't do this so
they have no ready-made paper for it)

BR
jOERG


On Tue 26 February 2013 16:57:17 Falk Stern wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> attached are the server documents.
>
> Best,
>
> Falk

--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

IPHH contract as drafted by Woody and me supposed to get signed by IPHH and sent to HiFo this week.

/j

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

I only hope we don't piss them off (too much). Really, they basically come to our rescue with an offer we can't resist (!) and "we" make it so complicated so as to even put the whole operation at risk.

A huge thanks to IPHH for their support!

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

This is insane.

I strongly regret I have seen this topic just today. If it was earlier I would put more harsh words in my last post here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=74

Damn I have to write this one more time. This is insane. I read all this and I can not believe it. I am also glad that the HiFo board will be changed. This is more like an Company the size of Microsoft or Hell GE even – a decision made in one small topic has to be discussed with so many people that when it is decided it is no longer needed. And we are talking about two man show. Short mail, sms, phone call and finito. Not some "Board has decide, Board has to think, Board this, Board that". Now this is the same !@#$ I encounter here in Poland in various offces etc. I can not belive it...

There are good people willing to help, there is a company willing to help, there are admins willing to spend their free time and what? “Board this, Board that” grrrrrrrrrrrr

This looks like Nokia not as a open source community. I have to grab a beer to calm myself.

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

I don't want to derail the fundraiser thread further but I can't accept seeing Woody taking the flak and say nothing. The accusations that SD69 fired against him are completely unfounded. He is once again twisting the facts however he likes. No wonder he appears once a year out of nowhere just when he gathers enough little things to blow out of proportion and direct them to random community members that unlike him give their valuable time to this community:

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

well, frustration about Rob has a long histroy to build up, even to the point of bystanders staring in disbelief of his current behavior. I can't blame anybody, and particularly those in council who all know most of the internal mail as of lately should understand why emotions fly high now.
We'll also not see a BoD meeting this week, I bet on that. >:-(
My ***!
Facts are: the secretary holds the bank accounts for hostage, and the secretary on own discretion decided that he can't proceed a legally decided action of BoD made by all three, and the secretary in personal union BoDirector does *not* actively seek for a new BoD meeting to *solve* that issue but rather blocks any progress and any meeting since >4 weeks now, accusing others of having committed crimes.
Time for a sequel of how this thread started? I think so.
/j

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

Arrrgh why dont you guys get up in irc at a particular time then solue the mess:)

i humbly request to all board members that you all announce about your avaiblity this week in the thread so to enhance the gathering:)

i belive talking on the matters will simplyfy things a lot:)

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

Woody 2013-05-30 19:32: Jim 2013-05-30 20:10: Robert 2013-06-01 02:40: Jim 2013-06-03 21:46: (after a direct mail from me to him, to please make good use of the 5h window Rob offered during the whole week. FULL quote, though edited by me) Woody 2013-06-03 22:00: so here you are, regarding a meeting this week.
>:-( won't happen, plain to see for everybody.

/j

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

How about...
Everybody put an "x" to the relevant box to indicate your availability on that day.

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

Any base for legal action/involving police, citing imminent dangers? I think there's enough evidence now. I wouldn't watch that any longer.

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

leave me out please, I'm not at all involved into that. Please learn about HiFo BoD at http://hildonfoundation.org/about/
/j

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

Why not send the question as a poll and lets us and everyone available decided if you can't or make it during a week?

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

No need for a virtual live meetup now:)


jeorge as u seem to be pretty active now so make a thread with appropiate title and start the meeting there now:)

seriously its not a solution but i hope it will facilate the growh of good communication :)

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

again, please leave me out, i'm not involved in HiFo. And any meeting announced by $random-person where none or just one of the BoD members joins is worthless in absolutely any regard.
/j

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

I really like the forum:)

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

The only way i think it going to work, is, to have a GM who can interact and deal with BoD on the issues on TMO and have them done.
Where the bussies BoD member have to meet the least possible and they just have to agree on the solutions, maybe poll or referendums.

The GM has to overlook software developement, maintainance of packages and future of TMO.

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

Oh missed the thread by generalallies :(

theres what i wanted the type of thread:)

lets see the outcome

btw don will you please delete your quoted post please its damm ugly and hummilative:(

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

Sorry jeorge:(

good night

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

You got any idea which "issues" you refer to here? You checked HiFo bylaws if such a GM (whatever that means) would have any chance? You're aware that HiFo never been meant and actually doesn't "overlook software developement, maintainance of packages and future of TMO", it's community (so YOU, and your MCC as proxy) to take care about all that.
SIGH
/j

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

I was talking about small issues like the one with paypal, I know I can use your account to donate but should be great if that had been fixed promptly; the GM(general manager) it is what you are doing now, many thanks for that you put your best effort at it, solving problems with repos and other stuff.

I read threads where you are very involve, and I know there is a lot of persons here who are very capable of handle task like that too, so you don't get overwhelm at the end.

The software thing, there is a lot of people who need to be guided step by step, also there are other who are pros at coding, so should be nice to have people focus on new ideas and others to help the least techies,
for the good of the community of course.

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

On the basis of what you quoted, I for one do not find it "plain to see" (although you may well be right). In fact, the transition from Jim's communication 2013-06-03 21:46 and Woody's 2013-06-03 22:00 is incomprehensible. Is something missing?

Jim appears to be identifying a period of availability within what Rob gave (sounds constructive?) and then we read that Woody is confused about Jim being either bored or busy. Huh?

Does anyone understand? Do those quotations serve any purpose other than deepening the confusion of folk like me? I hold no antipathy towards Joerg and Woody, as both are clearly critical glue in our community matrix, but....

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

I should have anticipated many would probably get this detail wrong, since initially I did too despite I had the full text. Sorry I probably should have given more explanation to it, particularly since I edited/censored and thus crippled the original text.
Woody asked "during traveling, are you bored and happy to join a meeting using your mobile IT, or are you busy and can't join a meeting during that period you stated? I assume you meant you're busy, but I rather ask for clarification"

For now there would be a theoretical window from 12:30 to 14:00 for a meeting on Thursday - only if Jim isn't late on that other thing he quoted, and only if that other thing actually meant "I'm busy during that period". Nevertheless *might* suffice, but I don't see it happen.
ps:just for clarity: no there's nothing missing in between or after that, that I know of. I just shortened first and second quote to keep out unrelated stuff
/j

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

Deleted as matter settled amicably....

Re: infra migration and the bureaucracy - who kills maemo?
 

What about a conference call ??