TOHKBD rev2
 

maybe. very maybe.



Looks:
-How will it look like?
LINK
-What kind of keypad will you use?
Custom
Update 4-8-14: Andrew has joined the team and will design the keypad. I have full confidence it will look beautiful!
-Qwerty/qwertz/azerty/äëïö?
Yes.
-What kind of materials will you use?
PLA casing, wood bottom, injection molded keypad
-Backlight?
Yes
-Multiple colours?
Maybe, but is more expensive
-Will the keypad be a display/touchscreen/e-ink/whatever?
No.

Ordering:
-How/when can I (pre-)order?
Not yet
-Can I be in pre-order queue?
No
-What will it cost?
Probably 130E
-Where/how can I donate?
Here and here
-When will it be ready?
Not yet determined

Improvements:
-Will it use a cable?
No
-Will it have 'alingment issues'?
No
-Will it use magnets?
Yes
-Are magnets dangerous to my phone
Absolutely not!
-Will it be slimmer?
Yes
-Will it be awesome?
Yes
-Will it be usable for everyday use?
Yes

Participationg in development
If you think you can help and have experience in developing products, send me a PM!

Other/FAQ:
-I have a different question
Is it a good question? If not, resist the urge.
-Shouldn't Jolla help with design/manufacturing/whatever?
No.
-Howso people if now humens cuz ima gerl blable why not?!!
That is not english. Use 'Google Translate' or a dictionary
-Can I pre-order?
First read this whole post.
-Use this thing/component/whatever!
Send this kind of messages over PM, with explanation why and how it works :)

Some FAQs, will be updated when possible! Asking one of above questions is useless ;)

Parts list and status
Base 3D -- testing
Bottom 3D -- testing
Magnets -- ready for ordering
Screws -- ordered
--
Base PCB -- designing and testing
Connection pad PCB -- designing and testing
Bottom PCB -- designing
SMD components -- ready for ordering
--
Wood insert -- ready for ordering
Domesheet -- not yet designing
Keypad -- designing and exploring production
--
PCB making -- requesting quotes
PCB soldering -- not yet in contact
3D printing -- testing parts from different suppliers
Domesheet production -- in contact
Keypad production -- approaching companies

THIS POST IS ABSOLUTELY NOT UP TO DATE

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Will there be eeprom to allow udev rulez to start/stop systemd services depending which TOH is installed?

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

I think that you should try to get the camera work even with the keyboard closed! It is a pity to "lose" your camera....

About parts, what about the n97 keyboard? I searched a little on ebay and there are many of them for sale.

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

you know it will be in there!

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Because of the location of the camera this will never happen, forget about it. Pick a piece of paper, put it on your phone and mark the edges and camera, then slide it out 40mm -> big-*** hole in the middle of your keyboard!



Mentioned above:
Will not use N97 keyboard. Terrible layout, ugly buttons, not available in big quantities. I appreciate the suggestion, but use PM.

Also, don't worry about the keypad, have some ideas ;)

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

if it happens dirk, please don't limit to 100 or so. I do Understand they can be out if stock and that its a pain to build then.
But once in a while you could say, "hey, right now i've decided for a new batch because i need a little extra pocket money".

or is it perhaps so that you make little or even no money out of them?
if thats the case i understand of course that you llimit them so low in count.

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Is there going to be a 'opened/closed' detection mechanism?


(trying to be as brief as possible :) )

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

don't know how yet, but yes!

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Please, take my money!

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

you can send your money to funkyotherhalf.com -> you get a nice OH and I have moar funds for developing :D

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

will it be opensource ? at least for the newly created parts ? :-)

--
http://rzr.online.fr/q/create

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

you know me!

all will be open-source, but will only put parts online that are final!

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Nice btw I can't open :

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fxocsudk5...H/Parts%20list

may this land in maemo wiki ? or other makers places ...

did it get some technical contribution from the community ?

I am wondering if there are other hw mods on other models ...

there is this n9 project here

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Test piece

Let me emphasize that this is not final design, not by far!!! Maybe will not even use this material, just trying some stuff out.

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2h6bngh.jpg

But still, looks very awesome

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

There is at least one different hardware keyboard layout possible that does not block the camera:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_P1_front.jpg

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

sliding down is not going to happen

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

thank that you decided for that :) i will follow this thread so i will not miss pre-orders again ! one suggestion (but absolutely unimportant), it might be in black color :)

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

much Eagle, so wow pcb:

http://oi61.tinypic.com/mugykz.jpg

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

why couldn't you make the keyboard less than the full width (height) of the phone?

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

because it does not comply with my design philosofy. but feel free to make an artist impression to convince me otherwise!

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

I'd be most definedly interested in buying one.

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

o rly?

http://media.giphy.com/media/NITFX5emjpMQ0/giphy.gif

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-o...67e1687d8d.jpg




Post scriptum: Å is negotiable. I guess that all my swedish speaking peeps can just suck the O instead.

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Depending on the features, you can most likely count me in. I'd be interested in one to upgradefrom TOHKB V1. It would be extremely frustrating to have the prototype but not the improved successor. I would kill myself, most likely. :o

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

http://oi61.tinypic.com/11rgqkl.jpg

first proto test pcb is soldered, testing some features and stuff! (god that sounds vague!)

still testing materials, exploring production facilities etc etc.... show your love and support via FunkyOH, then i have some dough to buy proto components!

also, anyone here has a lasercutting machine? injection molder? :)

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Just buy lasercutter OH. :p

Edit: Oops forgot what time I was on when used my timemachine OH, so forget that.

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

diy? http://www.instructables.com/id/CO2-...s-sheet-metal/

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

No hackerspace near your place?

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

That PCB looks quite thick, is that standard 1,6mm? Could you make TOHKBD thinner by making PCB thinner? I think 0,8mm would still be stiff enough. Even 0,6mm might do.

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

#prototype optimization is last step
http://media.giphy.com/media/Lndtxw3ztLhNC/giphy.gif
(investigating this by the way, but pcb (fiberglass) stiffer than 3D printed material for same thickness, so thicker pcb could reduce thickness! #proto #notfinal #notimportantrightnow)
optimization is last step
http://impossiblehq.com/wp-content/u...Final-Form.jpg


not that i know of...

good idea kimmo, i'll build a lasercutter myself :p


anyway, second pcb out for manufacturing :)

http://oi62.tinypic.com/xer8fc.jpg

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Glad to see you're progressing fast, but it also means I need to empty my head before it's too late :) Everything that follows is just my opinion (nothing personal, against or for your keyboard:) ), but based on experience with various hardware keyboards.

Why do you intend to make it thinner? Jolla is already thin enough and why sacrifice comfort for few mm's (it looks like thickness is becoming the next megapixel or screen size)? Switching TOH's is easy, so when one wants to amaze someone by low thickness, (s)he can just put a different TOH on.

What is most important about a keyboard is A) its reliability and build quality and B) buttons recognizability and press feedback. Both are hard/impossible to achieve with the thickness hunt.

I am, sadly, not an owner of the TOHKBD#1, but from the pictures and videos (+customers' feedback), it very much seems like the build quality and typing comfort could be improven upon. On the other hand, I didn't notice any owner complaining about its thickness...

I noticed your first metal design and it looks to me like the keyboard of the original Moto RAZR or Nokia N93i. I know it is not the final design, but since you were considering it, I must say that I have owned the N93i and this type of keyboards is one of the worst. You can never be sure which button you are pressing and nearby keys were often pressed as well as the desired key, which was very, very frustrating.

We already have a flat screen. A flat keyboard creates no added value, in my opinion.

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Cool, experienced people with constructive criticism and new ideas are very helpful! Lets go!

True. But I have a certain 'thickness increase' that is acceptable to me, within this boundary i am happy. Thicker than this unspecified number, i will not believe it is a good design and will conclude i will have to look for other solutions.

However, I have a trick up my sleeve to cope with this issue! I am experimenting with this as we speak, more on this in the future. I do not want to make anyone happy with a dead sparrow.

All important factors, but I think this varies for all users. Most of the requests I got with Rev1 were different keyboard layouts for example! Maybe an idea to put up a poll to make it easier for me to know what to focus on?

I think this is because all people that got a Rev1 knew in advance that is was a prototype product and hackishness all around. The keypad is not good, its too thick, unreliable, but hey it works!

This was indeed not a final design, the goal was to test the material and the production quality, which i am both not satisfied about. But it looked cool right? I would love a huge brushed aluminum keyboard, but this will require a lot of testing and thus a lot of dough (that keypad was 100 euros...)



Anyway, thanks for all the feedback! Please disagree with me and keep the discussion going. That is IMO the only way to get a good product. Come prepared with good arguments and examples, because I usually get a picture in my head about how it should look,feel and work and that picture is hard to change! :)


To end with a terrible idea:
Round better?
http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/11/20/wol...or_xxtreme.jpg

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

I am not as experienced as Nodevel, but I have a tohkbd1 so I might comment on his suggestions too! And like him, nothing personal, no fanboyism or hateboyism, just trying to contribute to the discussion while the final design is still being worked on.

The Jolla is indeed thin and one may think that a thick toh would be acceptable on it, as we all remember the thick design of the N900, how we thought "Hell it's thick!" when we first got it in hands, and then how we thought "It's the perfect form factor" shortly after. But the Jolla is large, very large. It's already difficult to put it in some pants' pockets. Large screen size + angular vertices + crazy thickness is not a good combination, one of them has to be taken care of to make the final design acceptable. Screen size cannot, neither angular vertices.

As a owner of the tohkbd1, I can say that the thickness is one of the main reasons why I can't keep this toh permanently on the Jolla. Of course it is not the only reason, and perhaps I would let it on if keys were more reliable and if the plastic part was less conspicuous (black, or white but with better finition and no gaps between it and the Jolla; right now the plastic part is not parallel to the Jolla and it makes it even thicker, and even more conspicuous when people are around). That is not a critic Dirkvl, we all knew it was a prototype and I think you didn't read any complaints from me! Of course there was a bit of disappointment, but a lot of excitation too, and a huge a mount of hope for future revisions because, hell, it's working! But even if the keyboard was more functional and less conspicuous, it would still be very hard to put a Jolla with it in some pants' pockets. A thinner design would definitely be a progress, especially as the Motorola Droid's keyboard that has been used is an almost-flat keyboard anyway, consequently having limited tactile feedback anyway.

I am definitely with you on that point. But I guess the sweet spot has to be found between limited thickness and and tactile feedback of the keys. The N900's keyboard had a great button recognazibility in my opinion due to the dome-shaped keys, yet a rather thin profile. I don't own a E7, but its keyboard seem interesting too from the pictures i see, and it could work with a metal design from Dirkvl if such keys (E7 or similar) and domesheets can be purchased. This is what I thought would be interesting when I first saw the metal prototype Dirkvl has posted: he is able to cut holes in a metal plate, so then why not considering these keyboards which should have a good key recognazibiliy? Even if I like the N900 keypad, it would be a bit tiny for the Jolla, and still hard to find parts. For instance, the Samsung S5330's domesheet are easily found on the internet, and if accuracy of DIrkvl's machine a cuttign holes (in metal or plastic plates) is good enough, could that be a relevant solution?

[Edit] I realize the Samsung is a tiny phone so the keyboard would be small too, but why not cutting the domesheet to adjust spacing of the keys to the Dirkvl's PCB and Jolla size?

That is true, but Dirkvl is right too here: there weren't much complains at all because it's a prototype and we're sure Dirkvl put a lot of sweat in that project, and finally delivered a working tohkbd (apart for some keys sometimes :D), but the keyboard would be better and more useable if thinner, more comfortable, and available in several layouts.

I agree here too, I'm glad Dirkvl is not considering that totally-flat design as the way to go!

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Hm... if you are in Delft, Revelation Space in Spoorlaan 5, Den Haag shouldn't be too far.

Sorry for insisting :)

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

thanks! they have a laser-cutter, but that can not cut through metal. it can engrave in ham though!
https://revspace.nl/images/7/7a/Ham_lasercut.jpg

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Due to various reasons, I missed the OHKBD1 train and don't want to miss this 2nd train.

I know the OHKBD1 had little problems (of course, it's a kind of prototype) and now, as I can read in the posts, it works.
These little problems made this OHKBD1 amazing, because was the first keyboard for Jolla and who purchased it, as a consequence, taked part in the project.

Indeed the OHKBD2 will be better and, in regards to the thickness, my pocket still can assume several extra millimeters: I came from a HP Pre, without edges, and it was little in comparison with the Jolla; for me the most important reason for the change was the OS.

Conclusion 1: I'm interested in buy a TOHKBD2
Conclusion 2: size does'n matter :)

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

Ok, good that you have that covered :)

And what comes to that thickness conversation. I also think that TOHs should be as thin as possible, because Jolla is quite big phone.

Re: tohkbd2 #maybe
 

I know there's a laser cutter in my place ... this could be a nice exercice to try it out ... if you can mentor me ... dont be hurry too I dont have lot of free time for this project ...

--
http://rzr.online.fr/q/diy