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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)

- - SailfishOS Update10 discussions (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94245)

mariusmssj

2014-12-02 19:25

SailfishOS Update10 discussions

So just making a thread for update10 discussions as old one didn't make much sense any more and got closed.

Current info:
[Official announcement] Current status of Update10

Quote:

We've been working hard on improving the out of memory (OOM) handling by the OS since the update9 opt-in was released. A portion of our time went into demo preparations for Slush and of course the tablet launch. This has left us lagging a bit behind the internal release schedule for update10.

https://together.jolla.com/question/...#post-id-68295

Quote:

We did a post-mortem on late releases to figure out what went wrong with our development cycle and surely do not mind sharing our thoughts on this here. One of main reasons has been that we underestimated the work needed to successfully complete the Qt5.2 transition. We also made a conscious decision to leave for summer vacation together, leaving the development branch open for contributions without integration promotions (QA) to testing repository for that period. When we returned, it took double the time to stabilize the development branch before going forward. Coupled with losing a few of our fellow sailors, our developers had to stretch beyond their comfort zones to debug and attempt finding the root cause of the crashes, performance hits, connectivity issues, memory handling among other things. We have moved slowly, but steadily.

On a positive note, we have amended our integration process to avoid the pitfalls we faced during this transition. We have also enabled better ways to develop new features and technology in parallel with the main codebase, allowing integration only when code is relatively stable.

As for content of update10, this post is not the complete changelog. It just aims to update you on the reason we flagged update9 as suitable for opt-in.

I'll try to keep the front page updated.

szopin

2014-12-02 20:50

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Was there another opt-in update? Decided to not risk it as safe one was just around the corner, might need to find 2h (for potential getting back from 1.0.5) and finally go through it.

Dave999

2014-12-02 20:58

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Yeah, we need a thread while waiting and so we get a heads up with all opt-in and updates running around. We also need a place to celebrate when the update finally arrives.

szopin

2014-12-02 21:05

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1450410)

Yeah, we need a thread while waiting and so we get a heads up with all opt-in and updates running around. We also need a place to celebrate when the update finally arrives.

Well, it is sort of countdown...
But am asking as the tjc update suggests Jolla did quite a few changes/fixes, if they tackled wifi problems would happily update right away to help with oom, can help with this, not really if it breaks my connectivity

mariusmssj

2014-12-02 21:20

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by szopin (Post 1450414)

after they released the opt-in update the next day they released a hot fix to solve the connection issue.

Dave999

2014-12-02 21:27

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

19th is the last day of buissness. After that I would assume some, if not all jollas leave for holidays for a few weeks. Or do jolla have standard finnish vacations?

You might not want the push an update last day? So we have a two weeks window from right now.

mariusmssj

2014-12-02 21:31

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1450419)

Well if they plan to release best to do it this week or next after that if there some serious issues no one would be there to release any hot-fixes

MINKIN2

2014-12-02 21:39

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

I want full copy & paste functionality in the browser.

It is all I ask for so far.

Also... I like my Jolla :)

pichlo

2014-12-02 21:45

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by MINKIN2 (Post 1450426)

I want full copy & paste functionality in the browser.

It is all I ask for so far.

Good for you. I want full c&p everywhere. So I can e.g. copy a phone number from the last call and paste it in the terminal. Or copy part of the text from the SMS and paste it in Skype. Wait, there is no Skype :)

Quote:

Also... I like my Jolla :)

So do I.

toki	2014-12-02 22:00

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

well it also says..

Quote:

Finalisation of update10 depends on the above mentioned points and bringing SailfishOS version compatibility support for Jolla Store and Harbour. We really hope to release before Christmas, though in the event we are unable to accomplish the improvements stated above by the end of next week (=1 week before Christmas holidays begin), we will not release update10 during December. We prefer to not release at the start of a vacation period when we are not around to support you in the first few days of a new release

so if its not here by next week.. we will then have to wait till next year D:

ste-phan

2014-12-02 22:39

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450431)

Good for you. I want full c&p everywhere. So I can e.g. copy a phone number from the last call and paste it in the terminal.

Same here, I ve been considering that normal since 200X.

What happened? Swyping away in circles...

as far as I am concerned, Jolla can take holidays as long as needed to realise this is essential. Checking back in 2015.

szopin

2014-12-02 22:58

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusmssj (Post 1450416)

after they released the opt-in update the next day they released a hot fix to solve the connection issue.

Thanks, I guess will have to cut a bit on sleep soon

meet.vino

2014-12-02 23:01

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Dont think we will have the update in December! So its got to be January 2015! Hopefully, Coderus will have a new client for Whatsapp (Mitaakuuluu 3.0??!!) by then! Cant wait!

hhbbap

2014-12-02 23:12

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Perhaps it is hold back and kept secret as a Christmas present to us?
:eek:

Had hoped for 24-25 small daily fixes in December as an advent calendar...
:rolleyes:

nodevel

2014-12-03 00:51

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by szopin (Post 1450414)

if they tackled wifi problems would happily update right away

Did you opt in for 1.1.0.x? Because that update has finally solved wi-fi issues for myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MINKIN2 (Post 1450426)

I want full copy & paste functionality in the browser.

Here you go:
https://openrepos.net/content/coderu...election-patch
https://openrepos.net/content/coderu...ection-browser
(since August)

mariusmssj

2014-12-03 07:33

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Seems like Qt5.2 was much harder to do than they expected:

https://together.jolla.com/question/...#post-id-68295

Quote:

juiceme

2014-12-03 08:33

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450431)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MINKIN2 (Post 1450426)

I want full copy & paste functionality in the browser.
It is all I ask for so far.

Well, copy&paste works pretty well in those cases IMHO;

I can copy number from last call and paste it in the terminal.
I can copy text from browser and paste to notepad.
I can copy part of the text from the SMS and paste it in whereever I want to
Thank god there's no Skype, hate the stuff!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450431)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MINKIN2 (Post 1450426)

Also... I like my Jolla :)

So do I.

me too :D

pichlo

2014-12-03 09:08

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1450489)

Well, copy&paste works pretty well in those cases IMHO;

I can copy number from last call and paste it in the terminal.

Can you share how? In the Phone app's call log, all I can do is call back, send message, open contact card or delete.

Quote:

[*]I can copy part of the text from the SMS and paste it in whereever I want to[/LIST]

Can you share how? The only thing that I can do is copy the whole message. How do you select just a part of it?

Quote:

[*]Thank god there's no Skype, hate the stuff!!!!

Everyone I know is on Skype. There's no point pi$$ing against the wind. But never mind, I have it on my N900 which is my main device anyway. Jolla is just a tablet for browsing TMO :)

benny1967

2014-12-03 09:36

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450495)

Everyone I know is on Skype. There's no point pi$$ing against the wind.

Everyone I know uses MS Windows.
Everyone I know has an Android phone.
Everyone I know owns a car.
Everyone I know is on Facebook.
Everyone I know is shorter than 190cm.
Everyone I know ...

WTF? Who decides about my life and what's important to me? Everyone I know? People have a very good reason not to use Skype. Everyone you know is not relevant.

pichlo

2014-12-03 09:44

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 1450498)

Who decides [...] what's important [...]?

Exactly. Trying to force everyone in my social circle to switch to some other service is not mportant enough for me. Now, can we get back to the topic, please?

ste-phan

2014-12-03 10:15

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1450489)

Well, copy&paste works pretty well in those cases IMHO;

I can copy number from last call and paste it in the terminal.
I can copy text from browser and paste to notepad.
I can copy part of the text from the SMS and paste it in whereever I want to
Thank god there's no Skype, hate the stuff!!!!

me too :D

I think we have reason to be more demanding.
[*]I can copy number from last call and paste it in the terminal.

-> Does not work as it should (intuitively). Touch and hold number pops up menu "call, send message, delete"
Maybe I succeeded doing this before but not finding it twice only happens on the worst designed systems.

On N900 at least right click menu item, open contact card, leads me to edit the number and opportunity to text select and ctrl+c / ctrl-v myself a way out of my misery.

[*]I can copy text from browser and paste to notepad.

I can't from Jolla browser. But I have no patch installed to enable stock browser to do so because I am afraid having to lose my time sorting out broken patches as long as receiving a major system update is still plausible.

This might be a future solution but for now I'd rather format my SDXC card manually to bypass the lack of MSexclusiFAT license, as I have to do it one single time only to get it over with.

Firefox (Android) does allow copying but does not share clipboard with Jolla system to paste the data somewhere useful (like phone number in phone application).

WebCat allows copying text to the clipboard. (having fun adjusting selection box when edge is on display screen edge)

[*]I can copy part of the text from the SMS and paste it in whereever I want to

It really seems so, but I can only copy full SMS content.. :confused:

The useful scenario is to allow consistent copy from any program to SMS or any program.
So far I can copy the active URL from Jolla browser and put it in an SMS for example or if I need to SMS actual web page text I can use the WebCat browser and see if I can get piece selected for copying.

[*]Thank god there's no Skype, hate the stuff!!!!

MS being the closest visible thing behaving like god, that is the one time our prayers have been heard and responded to. :p

juiceme

2014-12-03 16:51

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450495)

Can you share how? In the Phone app's call log, all I can do is call back, send message, open contact card or delete.

I guess you are on some older SW release, asn that used to be fixed via a patch but it became default feature in Uitukka.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450495)

Can you share how? The only thing that I can do is copy the whole message. How do you select just a part of it?

That is also patchable, the copying is defined in MessagesView.qml of the messaging application.

juiceme

2014-12-03 17:19

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by ste-phan (Post 1450502)

[*]I can copy number from last call and paste it in the terminal.

-> Does not work as it should (intuitively). Touch and hold number pops up menu "call, send message, delete"
Maybe I succeeded doing this before but not finding it twice only happens on the worst designed systems.

On Uitukka there exists also option to copy the number.
On earlier releases you need to patch CallLogPage.qml of voicecall-ui.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ste-phan (Post 1450502)

On N900 at least right click menu item, open contact card, leads me to edit the number and opportunity to text select and ctrl+c / ctrl-v myself a way out of my misery.

I would not know anything about that, never had the pleasure of owning one of those devices :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by ste-phan (Post 1450502)

[*]I can copy text from browser and paste to notepad.

I can't from Jolla browser. But I have no patch installed to enable stock browser to do so because I am afraid having to lose my time sorting out broken patches as long as receiving a major system update is still plausible.

Well, that indeed currently needs a patch. However it is no big deal to patch the UI to your hearts desire, for example I am not using any patch manager, I just patch the QML by hand when I require some changes. It is after all very readable code and you can see the result immediately.
There's even no need to be extra careful when doing that, you cannot really brick the device whatever you do to the UI. You can break the UI, sure, but that's why it is done via ssh to the device of course :)
Just make backup copies of your QML's when modifying or trying something new.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ste-phan (Post 1450502)

This might be a future solution but for now I'd rather format my SDXC card manually to bypass the lack of MSexclusiFAT license, as I have to do it one single time only to get it over with.

Don't know anything about that, I use only ext4 formatted SD cards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ste-phan (Post 1450502)

Firefox (Android) does allow copying but does not share clipboard with Jolla system to paste the data somewhere useful (like phone number in phone application).

I guess the Android subsystem has a totally different way to use clipboard than the jolla-native QML applications do. (which of course is understandable)
Never tried that though since I've got no Android on my device ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ste-phan (Post 1450502)

[*]I can copy part of the text from the SMS and paste it in whereever I want to

It really seems so, but I can only copy full SMS content.. :confused:

As I earleir said, that too requires that you patch the UI a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ste-phan (Post 1450502)

[*]Thank god there's no Skype, hate the stuff!!!!

MS being the closest visible thing behaving like god, that is the one time our prayers have been heard and responded to. :p

Amen! :D

pichlo

2014-12-03 21:14

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1450539)

I guess you are on some older SW release

Actually, I am on Uitukka. Still,

1) A short tap on an entry in the call list calls the number. Without a warning, which IMO is a bad design but one can learn to live with that.
2) A long tap brings a menu with "Send message", "Open contact card" and "Delete". All entries on my list are currently from known numbers so I apologize if there are more options for numbers not in the phone book but even if there is a "Copy phone number" option, why not for all entries?
3) To actually copy the number, I have to open the contact card for editing. A bit risky operation.

Quote:

That is also patchable, the copying is defined in MessagesView.qml of the messaging application.

Whilst I don't mind editing a QML,

1) How was I supposed to know that this is what I have to do?
2) Where is that file?
3) What do I need to do with the file to enable selective copying? (OK maybe it is obvious once you know the aswers to questions 1 and 2.)
4) Is it what you expect the users to routinely do for things that should work out of the box?

benny1967

2014-12-03 21:40

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450566)

All entries on my list are currently from known numbers so I apologize if there are more options for numbers not in the phone book but even if there is a "Copy phone number" option, why not for all entries?

You wanted to copy a phone number, not a name. Now it turns out your call list doesn't even let you check the use case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450566)

...first people complain Sailfish is not open and hackable, then they complain it is.

eekkelund

2014-12-03 21:45

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450566)

1),2)&3) Settings-Apps-Phone-Quick call(disable)

No more calling by accident without warning. At least for not known numbers there is option to copy number. Maybe not for existing contacts..?

pichlo

2014-12-03 22:13

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 1450569)

You wanted to copy a phone number, not a name. Now it turns out your call list doesn't even let you check the use case.

Excuse me? I want to copy a number. I do not care if that number is in my address book or not. My use case highlights a shortcoming in the software. Can you not just admit it instead of spitting at me?

The very fist time I came across the copy&paste hurdle was when I first got the phone and wanted to log in to my home WiFi. My password contains some randomly generated ASCII characters. Not impossible but quite tricky to type on an on-screen keyboard. So here is another use case for you. On every other device I ever connected to my home network, I used USB to transfer a text file with the WiFi password. This approach did not work on Jolla: no default file manager to navigate to the file, no default text editor to open it with, not even a default terminal to type 'cat password.txt'. And even if any of the above were fulfilled, it would still not work: no copy&paste ;)

Please don't get me wrong. I like the phone. A lot. Not as much as the N900 but still a lot. I bought it second-hand just to see what the fuss is all about. I did not expect to end up hooked. I like it so much that I bought a new one for my other half, even though I know it means ending up being responsible and blamed for all its shortcomings. And I am ready to explain or defend them. Not to pretend they do not exist.

aegis

2014-12-04 01:26

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

I've no idea what you're doing Pichlo but copy and paste works just fine between Jolla's Terminal app and the browser.

I've just cut this from Terminal and pasted into the browser...

,---
| SailfishOS 1.1.0.39 (Uitukka) (armv7hl)
'---
[nemo@Jolla ~]$
[nemo@Jolla ~]$

Also, I don't know of any other smartphone that comes with a file manager, terminal and text editor as standard so Jolla aren't unusual. Terminal gets enabled when you switch on developer mode IIRC.

HtheB

2014-12-04 02:14

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegis (Post 1450587)

Almost all android phones that I know of has a default file manager and a text editor build in out of the box....

aegis

2014-12-04 08:23

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by HtheB (Post 1450589)

Almost all android phones that I know of has a default file manager and a text editor build in out of the box....

My Nexus 7 came with neither and I don't temember seeing either on the HTC one of our kids had having either. She's since moved to an iPhone, which of course has neither. Is it a Samsung thing perhaps?

One of the first things I did on my Nexus was find a file manager (settled on ES File Explorer - it's UI is frankly awful but best of bad bunch), a terminal (Went through many! to end up with two as neither are great at both local and ssh remote) and a text editor (Ended up paying for one as the free ones were mostly rubbish, full of adverts and dubious security permissions).

I can't wait to get rid of it. It's almost entirely used for couch surfing and games now and it's a bit slow for that now due to the flash issue in the N7.

pichlo

2014-12-04 09:12

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegis (Post 1450587)

I've no idea what you're doing Pichlo but copy and paste works just fine between Jolla's Terminal app and the browser.

Please show this ignorant user how to do it.

For that matter, I have not yet received an answer from juiceme (or anyone else) about how to copy a number from Phone or part of the text from Messages. All I have seen was, "of course you can do it, you idiot!" ;)

Quote:

Also, I don't know of any other smartphone that comes with a file manager, terminal and text editor as standard so Jolla aren't unusual. Terminal gets enabled when you switch on developer mode IIRC.

You need the network to enable developer mode. Chicken, egg? ;)

nodevel

2014-12-04 09:32

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450608)

Please show this ignorant user how to do it.

Open terminal, select text, copy. Doesn't sound too difficult :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450608)

You need the network to enable developer mode. Chicken, egg? ;)

Oh my... Duh! Of course you need network, because how else will the phone download the terminal and other developer tools??

99% of users will never enable developer mode, therefore it would be pointless to have all these tools preinstalled (which would mean all of that would have to be updated with each system update). Just a friendly reminder - you need network for downloading Media Player, Calculator, Clock, Mail, Calendar, ... as well.

Of course, I forgot, having network on a phone is something very peculiar these days :)

pichlo

2014-12-04 09:58

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodevel (Post 1450610)

open terminal, select text, copy. Doesn't sound too difficult :)

How???????
:confused::confused::confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodevel (Post 1450610)

Oh my... Duh! Of course you need network, because how else will the phone download the terminal and other developer tools??

Duh! Please see the discussion in its entirety. The whole point was copying the network password somehow. So, to copy and paste the network password, you need to enable dev mode for which you need the network password. Do I really need to spell things out? ;)

nodevel

2014-12-04 10:09

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450614)

How???????[/size]
:confused::confused::confused:

Rotated image from OpenRepos...
https://openrepos.net/sites/default/...3114-26-49.png

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450614)

Copying the wi-fi password. I am hinting that having network (cellular) internet is not that peculiar nowadays.

EDIT:
I am just suggesting solutions to your questions, not trying to solve your scenario, because for myself, typing in the password on a keyboard (virtual or connected BT keyboard if there's not enough characters on the virtual one) is much user friendly than transferring a txt file over USB.

szopin

2014-12-04 10:11

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450614)

How???????
:confused::confused::confused:

Drag mode -> Select

juiceme

2014-12-04 10:29

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450566)

You are correct that the "copy number" entry in the menu is disabled by default when the number is known.
However, here's an one-liner patch for you to enable it :D

Code:

[root@Jolla ~]# diff -u CallLogPage.qml.backup /usr/share/voicecall-ui-jolla/pages/CallLogPage.qml

--- CallLogPage.qml.backup        2014-12-04 11:58:26.179885538 +0200

+++ /usr/share/voicecall-ui-jolla/pages/CallLogPage.qml        2014-12-04 12:00:17.168318304 +0200

@@ -237,7 +237,6 @@

                         onClicked: openContactCard(person, model.remoteUid)

                     }

                     MenuItem {

-                        visible: !privateNumber && !person

                         //% "Copy"

                         text: qsTrId("voicecall-me-copy")

                         onClicked: Clipboard.text = model.remoteUid

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450566)

3) To actually copy the number, I have to open the contact card for editing. A bit risky operation.

True. I cannot fully understand why it has been disabled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1450566)

Well, answers to the previous questions may vary from whom you ask about it, I guess?
How to find things, generally I use to grep for intresting keywords in the QML files. (remember, everything is located under /usr/share/ so you need not look elsewhere when you want to do UI mods to the system or applications)
Then, experimenting with changing things a bit in promisingly-seeming-locations and testing the results is what gets you results, and you learn a lot on the functioning and organization of the code.

You usually need to do "killall lipstick" after editing something to make Jolla to reload the UI components. If you break the UI, no problem just reverse your latest change and reload again. (this is why working in ssh is neat, you kan tweak the UI from your computer and at the same time safely test what the changes accomplish)

Mmmh, as for Q 4.), it depends. I do expect end users to tweak things by themselves. I do it to all devices that I own and use, whether it be computers, cameras, light-fixtures, cars, vacuum cleaners, airconditioning... you name it.
I do renovate and fix my home myself too, of course.
(and I have yet to encounter anything that works-out-of-the-box like I want it to work...)

pichlo

2014-12-04 10:35

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

@eekkelund, @szopin, @juiceme: thank you, thank you, thank you! You are my saviours! Shame I can hit the Thanks button only once! ;)

benny1967

2014-12-04 11:55

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegis (Post 1450602)

Nope, probably not. I have a Galaxy S4 mini, and I had to install a third party file manager. Of course a terminal wasn't there, either.

Only thing that came pre-installed was a "Home"-folder of sorts, something to browser images, music files, videos etc.

aegis

2014-12-04 13:36

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by szopin (Post 1450616)

Drag mode -> Select

...which I think is the default. I can't remember changing it anyway.

pichlo

2014-12-04 13:49

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

I never changed it either and it was set to Scroll. The reason I never epreimented with it was that the letter are so small I cannot read them. The first time I figured out what it says was from nodevel's post (#34).

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