Whoops.
 

Nevermind, this post was uncharacteristically negative for me.

check out the new ipod touch.

Sorry.

Re: It's over
 

Nah, I don't think so. Bye bye.

Re: It's over
 

It's just starting. :)

Re: It's over
 

Why would hackers flock to this thing? To write ipod games? Or is there an open API?

Re: It's over
 

Hackers? Apple will make life as difficult as possible for hackers. Jobs likes completely closed systems.

Re: It's over
 

I assume this thread is about the iPod Touch which has a large touchscreen, b/g wifi and Safari browser? Definately competition for the Nokia Internet Tablets - for the casual user I can see Apple getting a lot of sales, Nokia less so.

This device will definately prove to be a tough "competitor" for the Nokia Tablets - I know they're not direct competitors, but in terms of the core competencies alone the Apple product will appeal far more to casual buyers than the Nokia tablets ever will. Web surfing, video and audio playback are the activites the Nokia Tablets have aspired to, but due to lacklustre UI and application design the Tablets will prove no match for the iPod Touch. :(

It's not quite game over, but Nokia have almost lost the battle for the "internet tablet". Nokia need to focus on other core competencies - email, rss and dare I say it - PDA. The iPod has always had a native Calendar and Contacts app for christs sakes...

Re: It's over
 

I says too: goodbye "Nokia N800/770", hello " iPod Touch!"

Re: It's over
 

Certainly not over, however when Apple do eventually open up the Mac OS X "lite" platform to developers Nokia have a big problem. It'll either do two things for the Internet Tablet:

1. Force Nokia to invest some serious R&D money in it and stop treating it as a hobby/experiment.

OR

2. Kill it.

Hope it's the first option.

Re: It's over
 

thank you for saying more eloquently what I was trying to say. Hackers flock to what people own, and I see all the hackers going to this especially because it uses the iPhone toolchain they have already developed.

Re: It's over
 

Does the iPod touch have a microphone or support bluetooth keyboard? In a way, this new device will call attention to the tablet category. The N800 was always a niche device -- but a way for Nokia to get their feet wet. The touch doesn't spell the demise for Nokia, but it will probably lead to a boom in tablet sales all around.

It does sound like the demise for Palm, though.

Also, I called the Starbucks thing the other day... They have been installing flat panels with "now playing" information in all of the local Starbucks. Assumed it was some deal with Starbucks entertainment. I'm never right about stuff, but this time I was. :-P

Re: It's over
 

A good transcript with pictures of the launch as it happens here.

iPod Touch will be available in 8GB and 16GB capacities, $299 and $399 respectively, worldwide within a month. YouTube supported in the same way it is on the iPhone. Full integration with the iPhone music store.

Nokia have everything to compete with this - Ovi for the music store, the platform and the browser, they just don't have the design kudos or the marketing chutzpa (OPK the Finnish chairman of Nokia isn't even on the same planet as Jobs when it comes to announcing products - it's sometimes hard to tell if OPK is even alive).

Re: It's over
 

It appears there is no Bluetooth support whatsoever, which seems a bit odd as it rules out A2DP and keyboard support. Maybe next year.

Re: It's over
 

Well, basically this appears to be the iPhone with the GSM radio removed (and an upgraded memory chip in the 16GB version). This is all well and good for them, though I suspect the price overlap between the Touch and Classic will cause Classic sales to lag, especially since the Touch's screen is bigger.

I admit the casual user, one who is especially into buying off iTunes, will love this thing (assuming they can afford it). I have to say after trying the N800's built-in Rhapsody client and 30-day trial subscription, it's actually quite slick, and if someone were into the Rhapsody model (pay $15/month for unlimited streaming, pay for each song you actually download) I think the N800 makes a better player. It's obviously better than the Zune, anyway.

But as people keep saying, the N800 isn't just a music player. It's also not just a web browser. It's got Skype. The Flash plugin is slow and somewhat lame, but it works, and you can go straight to YouTube. And there are 3rd party apps. I can connect to any IM service I want with Pidgin. My calendar syncs directly to Google Calendar. There's several ways to listen to podcasts w/o desktop intervention (it's not clear whether the iPod Touch can handle this). And I can build my own apps, which is incredibly geeky of me, but there you go.

Sure, for the casual US user, the iPod Touch may be the way to go. (How much market penetration does the N800 really have in the US anyway?) But the N800 still has way more capability and potential, especially if Apple continues to close off 3rd party development.

Re: It's over
 

True, the N800 offers a lot more than the iPod but the potential WORLDWIDE market that was available to Nokia, within which to sell a device offering media playing capabilities and internet browsing, has all but disappeared with the launch of the iPod Touch.

Nokia now need to focus on those customers who want more than just browsing functionality, those customers who want effectively a laptop replacement, or even as a smartphone companion (PDA etc.). Nokia have to rethink their approach and start embracing other non-internet based functionality as they've just lost access to the internet browsing only market (sewn up by the iPod Touch, I predict). If Nokia persist with their blinkered attitude towards the Internet Tablets, they may as well give up - if people want to browse the internet with a portable device, they'll get an iPod Touch.

Nokia must begin offering more compelling functionality and design... it's quite breathtaking to see how quickly Apple have been able to eat Nokias lunch.

Re: It's over
 

I have to stop you there: and just where is this "iPhone toolchain" of which you speak? Where are these "third-party iPhone applications" just springing up everywhere from garden-variety code hackers? I hope you're not referring to the various hacks that have appeared? Yeah, the N800 has problems like any device, but there is an official, freely available (open source even) development kit, and several different ways to write applications for it. The iPhone/iPod Touch has...Safari web apps. That you can't even install on the device itself; they have to be hosted. Or stuffed into a bookmarklet. OK, whatever.

In truth, I know why Apple has refused to open an SDK for the iPhone. They say it's for stability, but in reality it's so people won't write viruses for it. That's fine if they want to do that, but that doesn't make me want to use it as my carryaround Internet device.

Re: It's over
 

I completely agree with you, and not just with the advent of the iPod Touch: the whole Nokia N-series' market is in danger of being eaten by Apple now. Which is rather sad; Nokia apparently can't seem to market well outside of Europe, and even then faces stiff competition (even without the iPhone). Nokia's design could use some work too; Symbian's interface is ugly in comparison to most UIs except Palm's, and though I like Maemo's interface overall, things like the Media Player and Image viewer inspire utter boredom.

Re: It's over
 

The one and only reason why this is making any waves at all is because it's Apple. That's it, that's all. I want an open internet future, not one filled with DRM that requires hacks to install stuff all the time. I want things less locked down. Why bother waiting for someone to put an alternative OS on it when you have something with an alternative OS already on it now? The only real reason to buy something from Apple is because you like their interfaces and GUIs, but if you're just going to install an alternative OS on it anyways...

Re: It's over
 

Apple also seem to have many of the internet websites in their pocket - every time there is a new app, hack or someone at Apple sneezes it gets covered by just about every news site and blog on the planet. The iPod Touch is front page on the BBC News site for crying out loud.

Compare and contrast that with Nokia, who barely marketed the N800 at all and any coverage they do get is mostly derisory. This is precisely why I think Apple now have the "internet browsing" market sewn up, they have the hardware, functionality and UI that everybody wants and they have no problem letting people know about it.

Nokia need to learn so many lessons, so very quickly. :(

Re: It's over
 

it all depends what you are looking for in a device.
I want a device which lets me browse the web, including having the ability to save files for later use. I don't think the Ipod touch can do this.
Furthermore, I like the ability to write stuff on the go, without having to haul a laptop with me.
And there is the email, of course.
For me, the NIT functions as a small laptop; versitalility is the key.
And yes; is also plays music and videos.

Re: It's over
 

I agree with you... but we're a tiny minority. And .wo is a prime example of people who yesterday might have bought a Nokia Internet Tablet, but tomorrow will now buy Apple.

The open-ness of the Nokia platform appeals to only a tiny number of people compared to those that will buy Apple - those that just want to play music and video with a bit of web browsing don't care about installing other apps or hacking with a shell.

The question is: can Nokia compete with Apple and engage the majority of potential customers in this "internet browsing" market, or should it accept it will only ever appeal to the Geek market? Is the Geek market large enough to sustain Nokia? Is this experiment doomed to failure now that Apple have taken the concept, lost the open nature but still rubbed Nokias face in it?

Re: It's over
 

I don't think it's going to change much, to be honest with you. Every single time Apple announces something, everyone says "oh, the tablets are dead", but yet we're still here, alive and kicking, better than ever.

It's annoying enough to see the Apple news parroted everywhere on just about every site I go to... and everytime it happens, we have to suffer through it here. Ugh.

Re: It's over
 

The n800 is now dead... wih the touch out there for less money and he superb interface there just is no compitition..

nokia had a good product, apple made it user freindly, sales will follow...

my prediction is th iphone and touch go the route of the SonyPSP.. here will be a huge hacking communuit bases on these devices... there already is a large community of hackers hackng the iphone.. nowbthey haveeven a bigger user base to write apps for etc..

Nokia had there chance..they failed, i still lke my n800 and use it every day.. Apps are going to start flooding the market for these devices, thats when that iphone hits my possesion and at that point il have very little use for the n800.

iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

So...the big Apple announcement today...

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/05/s...special-event/

"Review time: multi touch, widescreen iPhone display, Cover Flow, Wifi, Safari / YouTube... "We're going to offer it in two configurations, the first is 8GB, the second is 16GB of storage.

8GB is $299... the price for the 16GB is $399"

Jobs: "WiFi, as you may know, is faster than any 3G cellular network, so it's really fast." Zing!

Re: It's over
 

I have always been perplexed by Nokia’s intentions with the IT. It is as if simply by calling it an Internet Tablet, supplying it with a browser and email and little else that it will act as a ‘golden arches’ to which consumers will flock.

Personally, I think Nokia’s big mistake was in assuming that internet access is so special that simply to have it was the be all and end all. Echoed on here by the ITT Forum mantra “Its an internet tablet, stupid.” To be thrown at anyone who has the temerity to question why the options to do so much more are not available.

Certainly Nokia have made little effort to develop the N800’s capability. From what I can gather, sales to date have been minimal and with the arrival of the iPod Touch, they can say goodbye to future sales too.

I wonder where this leaves development of the fabled N900? In the light of the competition will Nokia simply call it a day, with their experiment in this form factor having failed? On the other hand if they can rise to the challenge then we will have something very special to look forward to. Why am I not optimistic.

Re: It's over
 

I don't think the tablets are in the exact same space at the moment, nor do I think they are intended to be. I don't know why people keep kneejerking to comparisons that are only fractionally relevant.

I'm damn glad to see this, though. It can only help grow the multipurpose device markets.

Re: It's over
 

I wonder when Nokia will cut the price on the N800.
Apple has put them in a position were the N800 will collect dust on the selves if Nokia does not move fast!

Now we will see if Nokia is going to "put up or shut up" when it comes to the internet tablet . Whatever happens we as users/customers will be winners....let the games begin!!!

Re: iPod touch - not bad
 

Already covered...

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ead.php?t=9523

Re: It's over
 

I know. It's like with the whole iPhone thing. Everyone was saying "omg, I'm getting an iPhone" and "Nokia better watch out!" and "Nokia's going to die". I'm so tired of it, especially since the iPhone barely made a dent in anything.

Re: It's over
 

zerojay, tired of doing what? :)
reading their posts? just ignore it..
trying to convince them of your way of thinking? well good luck there..

Re: It's over
 

"For me, the NIT functions as a small laptop; versitalility is the key."

Exactly. Here's how I look at it -- What would I miss if I swapped my N800 out for an iPod touch?

* Being able to VNC into my home computer
* Being able to cache-read RSS feeds on my subway ride
* Being able to sketch a quick drawing with the stylus
* Being able to casually read a PDF paper on the sofa
* Being able to Bluetooth-pair with my phone when open wi-fi isn't available (admittedly, the iPhone would solve a lot of that)

But seriously, you can't agree that these are mass-market features.

What the iPod touch does is cement the Internet Tablet to the Linux-fan and computer-hobbyist markets only. The Apple product design mantra of "do a few things clearly and extremely well -- even if limited" is a winner for the general public, and this means it will have the audience that companies and functionality-hackers will want to target.

E-ville makes exactly the right analogy: the Sony PSP is as closed as game hardware could be, yet it enjoys a tremendous hacker community putting all sorts of emulators and titles on it. Apple has never been as tough on hackers as Sony has been (see existing Apple TV and Linux-on-iPod hacks), of course, that could change -- but is unlikely and sets the tone as to what can happen on the platform. That, and Apple may add some of these "missing" abilities officially in later firmware updates which as we've seen happen pretty damn smoothly, and frequently (unlike IT updates).

Re: It's over
 

Oh, I know there's no way to convince them of that once they've gone over to the dark side. ;)

Re: It's over
 

It's not the exact same space, but it's pretty damned close and people that would have considered the N800 because "it's a media player and can browse the internet" now have, arguably, a far far better (and cheaper) choice (I bet the iPod Touch won't corrupt/destroy it's 16GB of built-in flash memory either!)

For those that want *more* than what the iPod Touch offers the Nokia Internet Tablets are still an option but I would wager that Apple will sell *millions* of iPod Touches and, since they offer pretty much the same functionality that Nokia has been offering for the last 9 months, you have to wonder where it went wrong for Nokia. Why is it that Apple get glowing reviews for a $400 audio/video player with web browser, while Nokia were accused of selling "a toy" with "no real purpose" which achieved the same thing? Obviously it's not all about hardware, but software and marketing too in which case it all comes down to overall execution, and Apple will out-execute most firms on the planet. Nokia's own in-fighting, ineptitude (even arrogance) hasn't helped matters - they still have a chance to salvage something, but not very much.

Re: It's over
 

Actually, Sony's warm and kind to the homebrew community and have been since the days of the original Playstation. Stuff like NetYaroze and the PS2 Linux kit have always been supported by Sony. Hell, including direct support for Linux in the PS3 is proof of that. They know that people want to hack around and have fun on their machines and work on homebrew which is why they support it.

The reason why they are tough on the PSP is because, unlike the PS3, there isn't really a sandbox that the users can play in. If you are running homebrew, you are most likely running in kernel mode, which means you can brick your PSP if you run the wrong homebrew program. That's what Sony's main concern is. Containing piracy is also something they care a lot about, for obvious reasons. Because there's not really a way to separate the two on the PSP, they have to be covering everything just simply to protect their users and their licensees. Unfortunately homebrewers are lumped into it because there's no separation. Sony knows and is planning on fixing that... though it's entirely possible that it's too late for the original model. Perhaps with the new slim, we can have that separation and therefore they can allow homebrew.

Anyways... that's enough of a tangent.

Re: It's over
 

Not necessarily. That depends on Nokia of course. Granted, early-adopters have every reason to be pessimistic, but if they only knew what I know... :D

Re: It's over
 

The iPhone might not have a made a dent because it's relatively expensive, locked to one service provider and limited to the USA.

The iPod Touch on the other hand is reasonably cheap (8GB/$299 and 16GB/$399) and, by the end of September, will be available in more or less every country on the planet (more countries than, for example, the Nokia N800!) :)

Re: It's over
 

do share, plzzzzz.

Re: It's over
 

To be honest, Nokia should quit keeping their future plans secret - it's not helping them by keeping secret stuff which will be exciting in 6 months time... between then and now, everyone will be buying iPod Touches, only the geek hardcore will stick with the N800 and we already own our devices!

I strongly suspect that N800 sales have now peaked and may tail off quite dramatically. :( Nokia need to become more open about what is coming in order to sustain momentum behind the N800 and the Maemo platform - keeping secrets isn't going to achieve that.

Re: It's over
 

Like I said earlier, Nokia the time has come to dazzle us or step aside.

Re: It's over
 

ROFL!

But on topic, Nokia has really pissed me off with their IT ****ups, but Apple makes them look downright friendly by comparison. When Apple's SDK comes out, this will be a more serious competitor though.

Re: It's over
 

Why does everyone talk about apple stealing market share from the N800? I've never viewed the ipod line of products to be that similar to the N800. Let's be realistic here, the N800 doesn't have the fan base or the hype as the ipod products.
The ipod has a lot of people purchasing as impulse buys. Seems to be that a lot of the people on this board did their homework prior to buying. There maybe some impulse buyers at the launch of the N800, but never to the extent of the ipods.

The people that purchased an N800 probably have an ipod type product and may even be lucky enough to have an iphone. My wife has the iphone, and she loves it, but it's simplistic in what it does. I don't visit any ipod forums to find out what I can do extra with it. It is set in stone what I can do, and after a couple of hours I am done. With the N800 I visit this site more than I wish to say, just to see what new items I could add to the nokia. I wish there was a way for me to help support the developers for this device, but until there is a base like handango for Palm, I don't know if that will ever be possible.