Multitasking on Android
 

Some people claim you can, some deny.

Can you get real multitasking on Android? Defined as:

1. The system never kills any application without the user's consent
2. The multitasking screen is a place which is often visited without extra effort, so you don't forget about your running apps. For example during normal Maemo usage, you almost always go through the multitasking screen, so on Sailfish. And on webOS
3. You can easily either close or minimize apps (it doesn't have to be with one click, but without extra hassle. For example on webOS you need two swipes to close the app, but it's quick nevertheless). On MeeGo/Jolla - one swipe.

Is it achievable?

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Yes and no.

Android uses a different paradigm for multitasking than traditional desktop operating systems, and does this for the sake of better power usage.

By default applications are stopped when they are switched away, and then they resume when they are in the foreground again. For more info on this, search for the Activity Lifecycle.

If an application wants to run background tasks it needs to implement a Service. These can do anything they want, but again, the OS can stop then for example if the device goes to sleep, and can re-start them if needed.

Services can force to run uninterrupted by using a so-called wakelock, that will prevent the start-stop behavior, but this can also prevent the OS to throttle CPU speeds, thus apps that use wakelocks can run down the battery easily (see Wakelock detector app for Android that helps identify battery issues by finding applications that do this).

Most of this forum hates this method of multitasking and prefer the old desktop style multitasking where you decide what runs and what stops. I think it is far from an ideal way to run things on mobile devices as they will inevitably cause battery issues.
Just see how the Jolla tablet's battery life is compared to even cheap Android tablets, let alone an iPad. The Jolla tablet can't even keep charge for 2-3 days if left untouched, while Android tablets can take a month or more to run down their battery if left turned on but not used.

But of course to each their own.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

I'm not an expert on Android, but your post sounds like a clear no when you consider marmistrz's 3 requirements.

Besides, comparing Jolla Tablet - an Intel device without real support that's not going to get optimized - seems a bit off. Jolla (the phone) was always praised for its battery life, as SailfishOS uses some tricks to help the power consumption, like deep sleep of apps when the phone is locked (unless the apps use Nemo Keepalive which is not allowed in Jolla Store) where apps' processes are slowed down (big simplification). One could argue if that's real multitasking, but it's nowhere near iOS/Android - you're right about that.

EDIT: I would also like to know if what marmistrz is asking about is achievable using some tricks. I tried to use a recent Samsung phone in the last couple of weeks, after my Jolla broke, but had to go back to the N900, as multitasking is definitely not the case in the Samsung's flavor of Android and downloading random ROMs (with no source code origin verifiability) from shady forums is not my cup of tea.

EDIT 2:
To share my experience from the Samsung's Android (v5.1; others may differ):

1. No, the system kills it whenever it considers necessary.
2. No, there is no multitasking screen whatsoever - you only have a "recent apps" list, but you don't know which apps on the list are running and removing an app from the list doesn't necessarily kill it.
3. No, to close an app you must go to Settings -> App Manager, find a tab called "Running", find your app, click on it and press the "Stop" button. Minimization is done by pressing the Home button, but you can't be sure it will stay minimized (see above).

EDIT 3:
To expand on the tablet argument:
My HP Touchpad with webOS featured real multitasking and when in Airplane mode, it drew ~1% of battery per night, so it could stay up for a month as well. Unofficial Android on the same device under same circumstances couldn't stay on for two days. It's all about optimization.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

google will debut andr*id N with new multitasking features like split screen that we saw in sams*ng crapdr*ids and picture in picture, i saw the video but its still no real multitasking. floating apps is somewhere close to real multitasking on andr*id i think.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Multitasking, meaning you decide when your app dies, can apparently be improved using apps or xposed modules described in this xda thread. I have not tried it myself yet but will give it a go and report back. Feel free to beat me to the punch!

http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...1396599&page=2

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

I'm pretty sure that the bad standby battery life of the Jolla tablet mostly comes from the Intel chipset, which just doesn't excel at power saving.
It's no wonder you don't see much Intel hardware in mobile devices.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

In my experience all of this talk is anecdotal, at best.
On Symbian or Harmattan, I have had apps reload data, or webpages refresh when brought back into the foreground. I have experienced the same thing with Android.
I have never had apps close or disappear when put into the background on Symbian or Harmattan. That has never happened to me on Android either.
I have had processes continue to run after closing them on Symbian and Harmattan. The same thing has happened on Android.

Everyone uses their phones differently, and every operating system handles those needs uniquely.

FOR ME, I find that the "recently used" apps page (always one button click away), is as accurate as any other OS i have used at showing what programs are open. From this screen a simple swipe or tap closes that program.

I am NOT an Android "fan", but how it handles multitasking really isn't the issue that the "facts" point it to be. There are plenty of other MUCH better reasons to hate Android...

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

I have a super cheap Intel-based Android tablet that's forever stuck on Android 4.2, and it takes 4-5 weeks before it's drained if left alone, so I don't think it's related to the chipset, maybe the configuration.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Ok. I tried the app Ram Manager and I did not see a significant improvement in multitasking. It is quite possible I am not using it properly or perhaps my kernel does not support some feature. But this is my general observation. I could simultaneously run 5 to 8 apps and switch between them without losing current state. The ram consumption of these apps ranged in size of 30mb to about 200 mb. On inspection it appeared that when I used these apps I had about 1/2 GB ram still available. The android os would not let me use more and would begin to kill apps to maintain this amount of "free" ram. It usually knocked off the biggest ram user that had been dormant the longest (still less than a minute in time!). I tried a swapping feature on Ram Manager but it did not help. Again maybe I did not do something right. If anyone has any ideas to try let me know. My Note edge is supposed to come with about 3gb ram but a lot of that (about 2gb) is overhead. So maybe the new phones with 6gb to 8gb recently released or are coming out soon will have much better multitasking. (assuming same criteria of .5gb is usually free for other stuff). Boosting the ram by say 3gb should allow you to easily run 15 to 20 more apps simultaneously which should satisfy most folks here. (Although few will be happy with how it is done!) I'd like to hear how some of the other phones like the Nexus and One plus perform. Please do chime in!

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Well, the problem is not the number of apps running at the same time.

Often I do it this way: open one app in the morning, use the phone all day (with this one minimized or used once or twice), and open it back in the evening.

Android would've killed this a long time ago.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Yes. That is a good point. I've tried the same where I've opened a document editor made an edit and then put it in background. Sometimes it lasts a day and sometimes it doesn't. I had wondered if there was a time out but as far as I can tell androids main criteria for killing jobs is ram memory based. It could also be device dependent. Main lesson there is if you are working on, say, a document, using android and you do not want to lose changes save them before moving on to something else. Btw, terminal emulator is run as a service. I've never seen it closed, no matter how long I've had it running in background.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

How is that a problem?

If the app isn't doing anything then it saves state and releases resources saving your battery. It restores state back to where you left it when you resume it. If the phone has plenty of RAM then it restores the activity instance from RAM instantly. It makes no difference and is arguably safer than an app that doesn't save state but relies on continuously running. If it is doing something then it keeps a background service open.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

And now run a desktop app from a chroot. Whoops, no one thought about saving the state... And why should he

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

That would be a **** desktop app. Even desktop apps do that today as 'desktop' includes being mobile on battery. Some OSs also actively power down apps reducing priority. Eg. MacOS has 'App Naps' to conserve battery life.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Well, most desktop apps just stay idle, don't save anything until explicitly requested to. See pluma, gedit, mnemosyne, galculator, banshee..

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

I can give you plenty of examples where saving and restoring the state wastes the battery rather than saving it. Especially if "restoring" involves starting the application from zero and then reloading the last saved state. If the saved state is "in the cloud", as is quite common nowadays, chances are it may not be exactly the same as it was when you left it but a few seconds behind.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

That sounds like a good advice against using those desktop OSs, not like an advice to have it on mobile too :) I didn't know MacOS did this, but I'll keep my distance, thanks.

It's worth mentioning that the Xposed framework requires root which is a no-go on devices like BlackBerry Priv (mentioned in the other, HW-focused thread) and unfortunately on some other phones (Samsung) as well, unless you want to rely on a random binary from the internet (SuperSU) with no available source code. I thought most/all Android phones were safely rootable, but I learned the hard way it's not the case. So it's probably good having transparent root as one of the conditions for a purchase.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

I might add that apps like Ram Manager also needs root. Also if you root your phone you will not be able to use Android Pay or Samsung, Pay for example, if you are so inclined. Rooting allows you to customize you phone in so many ways. It's part of the fun for me.
There are some new approaches to rooting that may be more robust.

http://www.xda-developers.com/chainf...ifying-system/

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Most desktop apps on Linux you mean. That's not how the very same apps work on a Mac.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

And we have basically no alternative than Android right now (if we wish a hwkb)
So sad.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Which OS saves state to "the cloud"?

What we're talking about here is the way Android works, which is that it keeps an instance of the running app in RAM on the device. It keeps it there as much as it can before saving it to local storage if it has to. You'd be nucking futs to have your app state storage "in the cloud".

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

This is inefficient. Some apps could've freed the memory a long time ago, some will be deprived of it.

The whole point is that the user doesn't have to think. And no one cares about the power users.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Not the OS, the apps themselves do. A lot of them. On Android.

Exactly!

But now I see your point. You were talking about the OS implementation, not the user experience. From the user experience, it matters monkey's kidneys what an idle application does. Whether it stays idle in the RAM for as long as possible or is swapped out right away. As long as it does not impair the experience.

We have had a discussion on multitasking before. Even multitasking on Android specifically. It is all too well "ps -aux" showing you a bunch of stuff. By that reckoning, you can say that DOS was a multitasking OS too: it could play a tune while you moved the mouse cursor around the screen. But for me as a user, it is not a real multitasking if a video I am playing stops when I switch to the browser.

Multi = more than one. Task = task. Multitasking = doing more than one task simultaneously. I don't care that the OS can run many processes. If the OS stops me from doing more than one task, then as far as I am concerned, it does not support multitasking. Simples.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

As long as I can play angry birds and watch my favourite video at the same time I'm good...

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

This is all doable on stock android (let alone OEM skins like Samsung's Touchwiz and their split screen multitasking). I play videos (including ones from YouTube) through VLC in the background while I'm doing any number of tasks.

Again, it depends on what the user is looking for. My multitasking experience is no more hindered on Android than it was on Harmattan.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Thats nice. If you can play video in the background and edit a word file, that is good enough multitasking for me. But may i know which phone you have. I am pretty sure samsungs (the ones without the ability for splitscreen) cannot do that.

Let me tell you a typical mutltiasking scenario where i have seen most android fail. You try an load a website. Here in india we are still with 2g/3g. So an average website in desktop mode takes around 5 seconds to load. With E71,E72,E7,n900,n9 or BB10 i always try to open some other app in the mean time. (May be check messages in whatsapp or read the rest of the pdf which i had open) and then come back to the browser to see if the web page has loaded. All the android phones i have used till now reloads or wouldnt have finished downloading when i come back after say about 20 secs. That said my android exposure is limited to my cousin's moto x(2 GB ram), my sisters moto g (2 GB) and my parents samsungs with 1-2gb ram. Can the present androids do that?

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Here is a gif of my Moto X 2014 running 6.0 doing exactly what you said.
I opened Firefox, opened a website in a new window, opened Reddit, went back to Firefox. Page loaded completely in background.

http://imgur.com/bWftT4v

Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Yes it works. I tested with android 6.0 in my sis's moto G as well. So then android multitasking behavior has had subtle changes over the iterations. One thing i noticed was that firefox does this always (downloading pages in background) while the stock browser was unreliable at times. With heavy websites , sometimes it loads in the background , and at other time it reloads. Have you noticed this? One another question is if such background tasks happen in android , what is so different in case of stock browser pausing youtube? Makes me wonder is there differential treatment of apps with respect to multitasking? Phone and other os apps definitely will have differential treatment, but other than that?

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Yeah, just like any OS, some apps are written to be better at multitasking than others. Since everyone is so concerned with resource conservation, many pause background tasks by default (especially those made by Google). But there are always better options out there.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

For those talking about playing videos while editing documents, N900 can actually do it. The video plays via tv-out, while you do whatever you want on the screen. The stock video player however does not allow this.

Those saying VLC/Android can play while they do other tasks - yes, any phone (at least Nokia) with a music player can do that, even Nokia S40 (even the older versions such as in Nokia 6230i). This is clearly not the multitasking being referred to in this thread.

Finally, it's quite apparent that some of us, myself included, want the same type of multitasking as on a desktop, even though there might be a battery/power penalty to pay. Others are happy with a stripped-down version of multitasking that allows more power savings. Overall, I will agree that what Android has is multitasking, just not the multitasking that the majority of us here want.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

I don't think anyone would consider playing music in the background multitasking (though, I realize in the strictest sense it is). Since music is meant to be heard, not seen, if it couldn't be put into the background, I'm not sure many people would listen to music on their phones.

Playing VIDEOS in the background was only mentioned to demonstrate common misconceptions on multitasking on Android.

I agree, multitasking on mobile does not compare to multitasking on desktop. I just think the multitasking divide between Android and other more loved OSs is much smaller than many would like to think.




Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Hello, the closest You get to real multitasking on Android is the developer Android N version.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

This is not true. If a process is idling in memory, it will not consume any additional power unless it is swapped out. Saving and restoring state requires copying data from RAM to non-volatile storage and back again. This action is similar to swapping and does consume extra power. When Android restarts an app from scratch and restores its state, it's quite likely that it uses more power due to extra instruction cycles and copy operations than swapping normally would.

This is not entirely true either:

https://felipec.wordpress.com/2012/0...ic-vs-dynamic/

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Awesome. So those of us crying for 'real' multitasking aren't getting the worst deal after all :)

but then ... it could be that more recent android builds have overcome some of the issues raised on that post? I notice that was 2012.

Either way, I definitely like Maemo's multitasking better than anything else available on other mobile devices that I have had access to use/test.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

AFAIK Android has taken the "easy" way of not adapting the kernel to the actual hardware (like Nokia did with the N900), which of course means that the power consumption is much higher. Their solution is then to freeze apps (swap out, swap back, restart, etc.)

In the old days people complained that Windows didn't have real multitasking (it had "cooperative multitasking"). Now (other, but still) people claim that Android has real multitasking. But we claim that on mobile only Maemo has real multitasking.

As long as each group uses whatever definition they wish, then we cannot sensibly argue about this. FWIW and in my book: Android does not have multitasking.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Can you share a few pages from your book?

What we have established in this thread:

• Android can run multiple processes simultaneously, as evidenced by running top or ps -aux.
• (At least some versions of) Android can run multiple user applications simultaneously and give the user the multitasking experience.

What else is missing?

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

It is true. :p

Android first saves state IN RAM. IE. It just leaves an instance of the running app IN RAM. If it then runs out of RAM, it offloads that instance to storage.

Yes, it may use more instructions to restore state than to restore a swapped out process but you are getting the inbuilt protection of not having an app lose all its transient unsaved data.

Anyway, nobody wants their device to be continuously swapping. Nobody would argue that they'd rather have swapping for performance reasons.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

That's a ridiculous analogy. You may as well claim that because Maemo has a terminal built in, it's closer to MS-DOS.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

This is my use case of multitasking : I let run a gps tracking app during hours, sometimes up to 6-8 hours. Then I use (lightly) my phone for other tasks like answering a call, etc.

My experience is that Android does this as good as Meego or Sailfish, it usually consume about 5 to 7 percentage points of battery per hour (for a comparable battery), no gaps in the recording.

Re: Multitasking on Android
 

Android seems to do multitasking better than it used to. Used to be when Android killed an app, like a document editor, I would lose the changes I made. Now if the same app is killed it looks like the changes are saved. Whether that is due to an improvement in the app or android itself, I can't say for certain. Regardless, I wish it was me that decided whether the app is killed and not android. I would prefer, if the situation arises that there is no enough free memory to run an app, that the system tell me that I need to close some given set of apps or risk getting them killed. I would also prefer having a better swapping capability, even at the expense of performance, as the phones are pretty fast anyways. Regardless this may be a moot point once the phones have 6 to 8 gb.