N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Early days yet, but the new PostMarketOS initiative has started to add support for N900 (limited for now).

NB: in addition to the below, PMOS can't make calls or send SMS messages on any platform yet.

PMOS on N900 details

EDIT: There's a subreddit for PMOS

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Awesome, will keep an eye on this project. Lot of recent entries on github so the (small) team is currently actively working on it.

Would be great if they will be able to get the telephone functions working. Until now that seems to be the hardest part of any port.

Also some comments available on redit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/postmarketO...st_nonandroid/

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

and yet another fork of linux...

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Well, phone calling capabilities are obviously a target later on, right now we're working on just getting the basic hardware up and running (using the mainline kernel BTW), and checking out some packages.

I would like to take a stab at packaging KDE Plasma Mobile, which would give us a fairly decent GUI. To me that is, along with getting the hardware support shored up, a higher priority than working on the 'phone' functionality of the phone :P

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Um, it's Alpine Linux. If you consider "yet another fork of linux" to be a distro, well, also consider that many 'forks of linux' have already died (e.g. Maemo) to make way for possible successors.

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

REALLY interisting! thank you for sharing!

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Excuse me for this surely stupid questions, but why not Mer? What about the hardware drivers (provided by Alpine?)?

Thanks.

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

ive been asking this for I don't know how long. someone even started a port of hildon for meego now mer.

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Because they want to use mainline kernel, which means mainline kernel drivers.

anything that falls outside of that wont work

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

This means Mer doesn't use a mainline kernel? What differences (just for my knowledge)?

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

You can use Mer with mainline kernel if you want, but really then the question becomes "Why use Mer?".

Mer for the most part does not have a huge amount of packages available, and most of them are old. If you want something that's reasonably bleeding edge and you don't want to maintain a lot of stuff yourself then you'd pick something else. In this case that something else is Alpine Linux, but there are other options.

If however you want to use Android kernels and drivers, then those kernel versions are old and you usually need old packages to go along with it, which is where Mer becomes useful.

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

The reason Mer uses old packages does not relate to the use of Android kernels and drivers but actually relates to tivoisation. There should be very few userland packages, if any at all, that are tied to a particular old kernel. Linus' number one rule for kernel development is "Don't break userspace," therefore old packages should be 100% ABI compatible with modern kernels.

Mer developers have previously stated that they chose to use out of date packages (which are unsupported upstream), as they are the last versions that are licensed under the GPL v2 which does not have the anti-tivoisation clauses introduced in the GPL v3. By keeping everything at GPL v2, it allows Mer to be marketed to many more vendors, those who have a problem with disclosing source code.

The truth of the matter is that Mer becomes useful when tivoisation is valued above stability and security. It's a sad state of affairs and is one of the main reasons I've struggled to warm to Sailfish.

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

I have no idea about Mer, but I'm finding that the N900 has very good support for its hardware in the mainline kernel. We're definitely standing on the shoulders of giants here :)

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Tivoisation is part of it, but the kernel plays its part as well.

The old kernel is the hard requirement and as such you can't use new packages that require newer kernel features than is provided by old android kernel versions.

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

It seems we've got our wires crossed and we're talking about two different things.

Like you say, you can't use new packages that require newer kernel features that are not present in an old kernel. However, I understood we are talking about the reverse (old packages with new kernel). I thought that were discussing why Mer doesn't use a mainline kernel, thus I was explaining how the use of a new/mainline kernel would not prevent the use of the old packages provided by Mer.

It's worth noting that Mer doesn't actually include a kernel (or at least it wasn't included the last time I checked). The kernel and drivers fall under hardware adaptation which is considered as a separate project.

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Yeah understood, I was coming from the original question, which was "Why is this project not using Mer?".

and unless you choose to shackle yourself to those two topics we discussed, theres no major reason to use Mer and a bunch of reasons to find something else.

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

When MeeGo was still to be a thing, there was a Hardware adaptation team tasked with bringing full open functionality to the n900, with a couple of exceptions:

Maybe a search for the sources for the MeeGo adaptation will aid you in your quest, not just in this adaptation, but in others too. Here's a video review of MeeGo 1.2, including phone call functionality https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4vN_Xn0jq0


[1] http://thehandheldblog.com/2010/05/2...t-on-the-n900/

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

What's all this talk about outdated operating systems?! Ok, ok, some of their work, which has been upstreamed to kernel.org and/or the maemo.org wiki, has been extremely useful :)

In any case, I'm glad this device gets a new lease on life. There's still much work to do!

@tomislav - thank you for selling me your N900, after I foolishly sold mine ~5 years ago. Know that this device is being put towards a good use :)

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

welllll...
I think postmarketOS will do just fine for the n900...
Alpine has been around for as long as the first internet tablet...
So they aren't a fly-by-night OS that will disappear tomorrow..
they have a proven track record...
Hell ...
it isn't the first time Alpine and the N.I.T.'s have run into each other.....
back in the day I remember someone getting Alpine to work on the n800...
jeez ...9 or 10 years ago now....I think..
it was alpine email ...but still..

I am glad that Alpine for the n900 is a viable alternative...
(looks good from what I've read...shy of telephony..I think..)

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Well telephony is obviously a priority, and it should be Relatively Straight Forward(TM) using ofono. I just haven't gotten around to giving it a serious go-ahead yet since I'm working on other higher priority features/functionality in postmarketOS!

Help is welcome!

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Some things I am pretty good at....
others not....

telephony isn't one of them.
Hell my understanding of "telephony" up until 10 years ago was zero...
and my current is about as limited as ... well...extrapolating from the term...telephony...
I know it ain't about ..
"phony telephones"

Other areas I am more savvy.

But I am sure there are scads of people here who are far more able than myself...

otherwise I would happily offer what meaningless help (by compare .)..I could offer...

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

That's a shame, really and I'm really disappointed to hear it. But, honestly, do we have anything else, when it comes to modern devices?
pmOS targets the old ones

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

No, we don't have anything else but I don't think that's a valid excuse to embrace a broken solution. We're going over old ground here. I made this point (highlighted by theonelaw) in the Halium thread but the same applies to Mer/Sailfish.

I'm working on a multi-device successor to DebiaN900. It will be a distro/OS in its own right with multiple editions to cater for the needs of multiple audiences. It will have some similarities to postmarketOS but the focus will be entirely different. I'll share more details when I have something to demonstrate.

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Very much looking forward to what you show us wicket....

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

As I explained to you in IRC/Matrix (assuming it was you based on the tone here), we are not explicitly targetting old devices. The only reason the current "supported devices" are older is because these are the only devices available to all of the PMOS developers. Some of us have newer devices (I have a Nexus 5X) but these are too valuable at the moment to use for development. I can't afford to have no phone while I work on my Nexus 5X for example.

If you have newer devices available, then we would totally help you get PMOS working on it.

Good luck! The more distros targetting the N900, IMHO, the better!

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

In light of Easy Debian dying due to glibc no longer supporting the old Maemo kernel, I just tried to run the basic Alpine armhf rootfs in a chroot under Maemo.
At first sight the chroot seemed to work fine so I assume that musl doesn't put the same restrictions on the kernel version like glibc.

In the process of that test I stumbled upon PostMarketOS, which according to Wikipedia is based on Alpine.
So I'm going to assume that PMOS should also run in a chroot on Maemo. This could enable us to keep the essential Maemo features (telephony, power saving) while benefiting from whatever PMOS has to offer (minus accelerated graphics).

Has anyone tried that or is planning to?

Re: N900 is a target platform for PostMarketOS !
 

Instead of just smacking the "thank you button" ...Like I was Simon Cowell...
I will respond as well.

If I had the time I would in a heartbeat...
At the moment I am trying to:
juggle a few projects (one being a new " 'mo " distro),
unpack my studio (finally) in the new place,
tend a puppy (who has allergies, and am trying the old "process of elimination" to discover the source of the allergen)
chainsaw , haul, chop and stack cords of firewood for the impending winter season on our doorstep

Since it may be a bit before I can devote the time for it..
those who do..
I would like to see some serious testing of pmos on the n900 and what their assessment is ..
a thorough simple walk through for the B.M.F.I. (Base Motor Function Impaired........since "dead" is politically incorrect nowadays... ) ..( ie; those who are dense, comatose, those with the brain functionality of a rutabaga on life support .......the Newmo's ...essentially ..all that fit in that category...)

If it does work fine...
and is a viable replacement for stock maemo.
then I would definitely install it and then continue to be able to use an n900 again as a daily. ..
(It has been a while since I felt the n900 with maemo on it ..or any other os on it...could even be considered as an alternate for daily ...or a daily ...(in the sense I trust it to function and not fail ..including in the areas ...most importantly ..of ..telephony and browsing )