maemo.org - Talk - Biggest Disappointment: Nav Software

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Biggest Disappointment: Nav Software

Got my N810 yesterday. Since I had already put OS2008 on my N800, I was anxious to try the new stuff on the N810. So I eagerly tried out the navigation software. I have really put Maemo Mapper to good use on my N800 with a Holux GPS Slim 236 and loved it.

What a bust! The software isn't just bad -- it stinks! Among the many problems:

Slow update. The software is always 50-100 feet behind. This means it misses streets by half-a-block. The frequency of sampling the GPS info is really slow. This happened with both the internal GPS and with my external Holux unit.
Crappy maps. While they were (mostly) accurate, the maps had a very coarse level of detail -- at all levels of zoom. I am used to Google maps from Maemo Mapper, which were much better. I'm describing the way the maps are drawn -- the streets were too wide, for instance, way out of perspective.
Annoying annotation. Street names are only available at low levels of zoom. When they are available, they are generated dynamically and move around as the crosshairs that track postion move. Trying to read the moving type can be difficult.
Dizzying rotation. If you don't fix north and let the map rotate, it stops at crazy angles and moves in choppy jumps.
Paying for service. I believe the price of the N810 was higher than that for other tablets at introduction in part because of the nav software. Well, we only got half of the software. The routing and directional navigation is a purchased item and not even available yet. Sigh.

So...for me, the nav software is a bust. Give me Maemo Mapper any day. When Maemo Mapper can use the internal GPS (maybe it can now...I haven't checked), Nokia should throw out the Wayfinder stuff and pay Gnuite the big bucks for licensing his expertise.

What do the rest of you think?

-- Mike

Re: Biggest Disappointment: Nav Software

I agree, and I have _bough_ the Navicore software for N800. It works perfectly on highway and cities.

But it's the worst thing, can ruin your trip if you are planning a trip from Paris to Wien.
Let me explain: it splits maps into regions (for memory savings and to use kinder-garden programming style)
Now, paris is in one region - France, Wien is in another region -German Alps. So it CANNOT plan a route. I have choose Strasbourg as a border point to pass into Germany. Now this is a city (and it has streets also).
I want to go to .... Wien ... but thats wrong ... not such city. Ok then ... Berlin ... wroooooooooong ... ok i want to go east ... ... too many exits :(

So ... luckily i have some basic nav/geo knowledge ... i know there should be a river to be crossed ... and then i have searched for the nearest bridge (east .... don't forget east ). So now i have again some routing through the streets of Strasbourg and luckily i dindt get lost.

In Germany it worked flawlessly, job done. Quick recovery when choosing the wrong exit ... etc etc .. but the regions problem really sux

it's worth buying, except the region thing.

Re: Biggest Disappointment: Nav Software

Quote:

Originally Posted by frethop (Post 99375)

[*]Paying for service. I believe the price of the N810 was higher than that for other tablets at introduction in part because of the nav software. Well, we only got half of the software. The routing and directional navigation is a purchased item and not even available yet.

Mike, this is the exact reason I decided on a N800 vs the N810. I think the additional charges for GPS service are unconscionable.

Re: Biggest Disappointment: Nav Software

Rudely said: Navigation software is intended for the geographically challenged, and as such, it tends to deliver results that please the disoriented - with cutely misproportioned graphics, all kinds of directional cues and icons, and nagging voices telling you where to go. If you are a good navigator, they will always be later than you...

GPS map software, on the other hand, is for skilled map readers - much better than paper in that you can carry more (and more special) maps with you, that your position is self tracking and that the destination is flagged. But the navigation is up to you, and if you don't know how to read a map, you'll be still SOL...

Sevo

Re: Biggest Disappointment: Nav Software

I didn't experience anything near that severe. The timing was rarely off by much when I used it. Detail looked crisp and clear for me at all levels. And I don't sweat the lack of visible arterial street names at wide zoom-- the map would be a cluttered mess otherwise. ANY map for this purpose.

The issues I had were already reported but I'll briefly repeat here:

-app crashed twice
-satellites slow to lock
-voice gave wrong instructions at one point

I also don't really have an issue with the fees. I think they're very reasonable, and it's unrealistic to expect EVERYTHING to be free. There are significant costs involved with obtaining and maintaining the required data.

Re: Biggest Disappointment: Nav Software

The app GUI in 2008 is a big improvement over the Navicore app in 2007 & 6.
Seeing this makes me hopeful that more improvements will come with a larger user base.
The street labels may have to do with cache management and that can easily be improved.
A utility to "stich" together multiple maps will pro'lly come too based on my observations of how other navigation software has evolved.

I can now do more with it than I could when I first got it >> http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ad.php?t=11911
... I expect in another month or 2 we will be able to do even more.

Re: Biggest Disappointment: Nav Software

Quote:

Originally Posted by frethop (Post 99375)

Got my N810 yesterday. Since I had already put OS2008 on my N800, I was anxious to try the new stuff on the N810. So I eagerly tried out the navigation software. I have really put Maemo Mapper to good use on my N800 with a Holux GPS Slim 236 and loved it.

Maemo Mapper is an excellent piece of navigation for Linux/Debian machines.

What a bust! The software isn't just bad -- it stinks! Among the many problems:

Slow update. The software is always 50-100 feet behind.

There is a bug in Google/Yahoo/Microsoft maps , published on-line.
Maps/roads are shifted 30-40 m against satellite image layer
and don't match sat images.
In my opinion, introduced to eliminate free navigation applications making use of Internet published maps.

This means it misses streets by half-a-block.
see above
shift intended exactly to make you use commercial products only.

The frequency of sampling the GPS info is really slow. This happened with both the internal GPS and with my external Holux unit.

There is a delay loop incorporated into navigation program,
as maemo is crashing if gps fix is not valid.
Crappy maps. While they were (mostly) accurate, the maps had a very coarse level of detail -- at all levels of zoom. I am used to Google maps from Maemo Mapper, which were much better.

Google maps come from the source TeleAtlas, already bought by Garmin and Navteq , already acquired by Nokia.

I'm describing the way the maps are drawn -- the streets were too wide, for instance, way out of perspective.

The same is known for maemo mapper.
If there is no map tile for a specific zoom level, zooming one-level in
you see streets much wider than intended for that zoom level (try this feature in off-line mode).
Annoying annotation. Street names are only available at low levels of zoom.

The same with Google maps. Sometimes street names are already visible but still no city name.

When they are available, they are generated dynamically and move around as the crosshairs that track postion move. Trying to read the moving type can be difficult.

Apparently bug not sticking map tile layer with virtual street names layer.
Dizzying rotation. If you don't fix north and let the map rotate, it stops at crazy angles and moves in choppy jumps.

John solved maps jumping problem in Maemo Mapper introducing
gps sensivity and lead amount values in settings.
Paying for service. I believe the price of the N810 was higher than that for other tablets at introduction in part because of the nav software. Well, we only got half of the software. The routing and directional navigation is a purchased item and not even available yet. Sigh.

You are right.
We are participating in competition between Nokia tablet and iPhone by Apple.
At Consumer Electronics Show 2008 in Las Vegas, Apple is introducing
3G iPhone with inbuilt gps and 16/32 GB memory.

I suppose Nokia is going to introduce Nokia tablet + GPS + camera + GSM at the same time.

Unfortunately what Nokia offers on US market valued in $ has the same price tag in Europe but in GBP.
Low-end navigation with voice commands is available already at $100.

So...for me, the nav software is a bust. Give me Maemo Mapper any day. When Maemo Mapper can use the internal GPS (maybe it can now...I haven't checked), Nokia should throw out the Wayfinder stuff and pay Gnuite the big bucks for licensing his expertise.

Exactly. Nokia should nominate John general manager at gps applications development department.
John started his mapper navigation project stating any such system should be worth $2000.
He was not aware in 2 years time price for basic navigation with voice commands (software + maps + hardware) sinks to $100.

What do the rest of you think?

-- Mike

I am developing 2 interactive 3D generation navigation systems for Vateq and Teleatlas and do hope to get my high-tech 3D navigation projects financed both by Navteq andTeleatlas in 2 million $ challenge.

Darius

Re: Biggest Disappointment: Nav Software

I never thought about the fact that the nav software might be hiking the price up by a lot... if that's the case, leave the hardware in place, and make it a separate bundle... for what I'd use it for I'd be aces with Maemo-Mapper.

Re: Biggest Disappointment: Nav Software

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 99427)

It is ok to pay for value added but routing and voioce commands are already offered by all embedded car navigation devices - price starting from $100.
So what you get is not added value.
Obtaining and maintaining required data (meant maps, POI, routing)
is financed by maps updates.

There is already a number of virtual navigation systems on a market oferring no maps but device generated roads graphics from vector data delivered to navigation device by GPRS, cell phone connected and always on.
WayFinder, NaviExpert and others.
But what you pay is for data transfer only, not for routing data, voice commands.

It is ok if you have flat-rate and always on, as on connection lost your gps navigation generates nothing, no streets, no voice commands, no routing, as no maps are preloaded on memory card.

Darius
Darius

Re: Biggest Disappointment: Nav Software

Ok. MaemoMapper is great great great application, great implementation.
Unfortunately it works with Google/MS/Yahoo/ OSM maps downloaded from the Internet and out free access to maps can be restricted or cut off any time.
Navit is another navigation application to work for Linux , based on Garmin maps read from memory card.
It offers routing and voice commands as any embedded navigation device and no Internet connection is required to have it working.

Darius