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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   MeeGo / Harmattan (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=45)
-   -   MeeGo is da Man (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=64428)

ericsson 2010-10-27 04:54
MeeGo is da Man
 
Very good read

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/mobilep...2204005,00.htm

MeeGo is the future for Nokias smartphones. At least that is the plan, but making good plans has never been a problem for Nokia, they need to execute and deliver as well.

The N9 will run Maemo with a "MeeGo" UX. But the (Maemo)MeeGo UX will not be the UX that is going to be used on real MeeGo phones. Nokia will not encourage people developing for that UX, but will instead encourage developing on Qt and Qt Quick. This will probably be just fine, but think about all the wasted work: Symbian4 UX wasted, Maemo\MeeGo UX wasted. Strange indeed.

ysss 2010-10-27 05:01
Re: MeeGo is da Man
 
He is, isn't he?
But I thought FOSS is also partially about sticking it to da man?

ericsson 2010-10-27 05:27
Re: MeeGo is da Man
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysss (Post 852687)
He is, isn't he?
But I thought FOSS is also partially about sticking it to da man?
Symbian will still be around, and I can't shake off the feeling that Nokias plans here are made in a sphere of "world domination" instad of simply planning to make excellent smartphones.

As I understand, Intel MeeGo for handsets is as good as finished, ready for prime time. Why don't Nokia simply go fwd with Intel? Given the choice I would rather have a Intel smart(whatever) than a cripled ARM (in comparisom). As it is now, Nokia will be late also for MeeGo, maybe too late? Intel smartphones will get there first.

jsa 2010-10-27 07:13
Re: MeeGo is da Man
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 852680)
Very good read

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/mobilep...2204005,00.htm

MeeGo is the future for Nokias smartphones. At least that is the plan, but making good plans has never been a problem for Nokia, they need to execute and deliver as well.

The N9 will run Maemo with a "MeeGo" UX. But the (Maemo)MeeGo UX will not be the UX that is going to be used on real MeeGo phones. Nokia will not encourage people developing for that UX, but will instead encourage developing on Qt and Qt Quick. This will probably be just fine, but think about all the wasted work: Symbian4 UX wasted, Maemo\MeeGo UX wasted. Strange indeed.
I think you're mixing UX with the technologies the UX is done with (UX vs UX framework, the result vs the tools). I'm quite sure Nokia's real MeeGo devices will have pretty much the same UX as the Harmattan N9. Nokia isn't discouraging developers developing for that UX, they're encouraging developing for that UX with a more future proof and cross-platform tools. Just speculation, but I find it hard to believe that they'd scrap all MTF and Orbit applications they've already done. I think the plan would be to maybe migrate them to Qt Quick while already using that for new development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 852731)
As I understand, Intel MeeGo for handsets is as good as finished, ready for prime time. Why don't Nokia simply go fwd with Intel? Given the choice I would rather have a Intel smart(whatever) than a cripled ARM (in comparisom). As it is now, Nokia will be late also for MeeGo, maybe too late? Intel smartphones will get there first.
What you refer to as Intel MeeGo is the vanilla MeeGo(it's the same on Intel and ARM). It's even worse on the Aava(x86 reference handset) than it is on the N900 at the moment. N900 is the only device with MeeGo where you can do a phone call at the moment.

ericsson 2010-10-27 07:46
Re: MeeGo is da Man
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsa (Post 852791)
I think you're mixing UX with the technologies the UX is done with (UX vs UX framework, the result vs the tools). I'm quite sure Nokia's real MeeGo devices will have pretty much the same UX as the Harmattan N9. Nokia isn't discouraging developers developing for that UX, they're encouraging developing for that UX with a more future proof and cross-platform tools. Just speculation, but I find it hard to believe that they'd scrap all MTF and Orbit applications they've already done. I think the plan would be to maybe migrate them to Qt Quick while already using that for new development.



What you refer to as Intel MeeGo is the vanilla MeeGo(it's the same on Intel and ARM). It's even worse on the Aava(x86 reference handset) than it is on the N900 at the moment. N900 is the only device with MeeGo where you can do a phone call at the moment.
You are probably right. But I think a big error Nokia does all the time is communication. They never communicate clearly. It is a mix of plans and hopes and pure speculations, and when the time comes to deliver, they change and say; "What we really meant, and has meant all along, is .... " To be obscure is OK if you actually deliver and is succesful, but being obscure and never deliver as promised is a very very bad sign, the sign of no control. This is happening again and again with Nokia.

So it is a change of direction, why should we believe it, and why shouldn,t we believe that what they actually mean this time is something different?

Maybe the US bloggers have been correct all along. Maybe Nokia doesn't have what it takes anymore?

buchanmilne 2010-10-27 07:56
Re: MeeGo is da Man
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 852680)
The N9 will run Maemo with a "MeeGo" UX. But the (Maemo)MeeGo UX will not be the UX that is going to be used on real MeeGo phones.
This isn't from the article though ...

Quote:
Nokia will not encourage people developing for that UX, but will instead encourage developing on Qt and Qt Quick.
Developing for Qt and Qt Quick (and the meego touch framework, which is now available for N900) is developing for the framework on which the Meego and Nokia UX's are built.

Quote:
This will probably be just fine, but think about all the wasted work: Symbian4 UX wasted, Maemo\MeeGo UX wasted. Strange indeed.
Meego UX will not be wasted. It is mostly the reference theme. Will Nokia really ship a device with the Meego background? With Meego icons? To millions of people who don't know what Meego is? No.

The work before Qt was wasted. The switch to Qt on Symbian and Meego means less waste in future, but highlights the waste of different toolkits before Qt.

The more interesting part of the article is 400 Microsoft engineers developing on Qt for Office on Symbian. Will Office come to Meego too then? What does that mean for FreOffice?

lma 2010-10-27 11:01
Re: MeeGo is da Man
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 852731)
As I understand, Intel MeeGo for handsets is as good as finished, ready for prime time.
There's no "Intel" MeeGo as such. MeeGo is developed under the Linux Foundation umbrella, with the contribution of many Intel and Nokia (but not only) engineers.

It's also far from ready for prime time. MeeGo 1.1 (due to be "released" shortly) contains many bugs that would be considered release blockers in any other distribution but get through here because of MeeGo's "take what's in the repos on $RELEASEDATE and call it $NEXTVERSION" policy. Additionally, it looks like there's going to be an ABI break with 1.2 (softfp vs hardfp) so even the promise of forward binary compatibility is broken.

In short, MeeGo Handset 1.1 is only useful for development purposes, 1.2 (hopefully) will be the first release that will be suitable for building commercial products and that's 6 months away.

wmarone 2010-10-27 15:56
Re: MeeGo is da Man
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 853190)
It's also far from ready for prime time. MeeGo 1.1 (due to be "released" shortly) contains many bugs that would be considered release blockers in any other distribution but get through here because of MeeGo's "take what's in the repos on $RELEASEDATE and call it $NEXTVERSION" policy.
That's some awesome fearmongering there. The bug quoted in the article was highlighted and confirmed as a blocker, then resolved before 1.1, so that article is full of crap and whoever wrote it obviously doesn't care enough to fix it. Worse yet, the "read more" link goes to an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT BUG.

Quote:
Additionally, it looks like there's going to be an ABI break with 1.2 (softfp vs hardfp) so even the promise of forward binary compatibility is broken.
Fortunately, there's no one using MeeGo 1.1 on ARM at this point aside from the N900 port, and the entire development process is wide open so there's no excuse for getting caught by this. It must be done, and now is a better time than ever because it only gets worse.

Quote:
In short, MeeGo Handset 1.1 is only useful for development purposes, 1.2 (hopefully) will be the first release that will be suitable for building commercial products and that's 6 months away.
No reason someone couldn't make 1.1 work with hardfp now if they really wanted to ship with it. And if they were the responsible company we hope they are, they would push upgrades and updates to users as time went on and make it a moot point.

ericsson 2010-10-27 16:26
Re: MeeGo is da Man
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buchanmilne (Post 852841)
This isn't from the article though ...
No it's from this article, but it is also discussed here in other threads.
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...mbian_plat.php

chrget 2010-10-27 16:35
Re: MeeGo is da Man
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 853190)
Additionally, it looks like there's going to be an ABI break with 1.2 (softfp vs hardfp) so even the promise of forward binary compatibility is broken.
*facepalm*

I'm having this major deja vu all over again. Flashbacks to OpenZaurus / OpenEmbedded included.

So much for people learning from history. :rolleyes:


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