Yes, seriously, seriously. (Was there a reason to say that twice?) If that 5% is a key component, then it doesn't matter how open the rest of it is.

Take the Motorola series with the locked boot loader. If the entire source tree minus the loader were opened tomorrow, you still couldn't make a viable image to boot on those devices because you can't do that without that last little 0.1% of code. Sure, maybe you could find an exploit and hack in to start replacing bits. But then we wouldn't call that "open", would we? If we do, why would we not call the iPhone open, since we can do the same thing there?

I think you need to re-think why you, personally, are insulted by that.

For the rest, please don't put words in my mouth. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying when comparing two systems that are almost identical in which parts are closed vs open (in this case Maemo and MeeGo CE for N900, which is the only part of MeeGo we've been talking about in this thread), it makes little difference if one is marginally more open.

In fact, I referenced several times that I personally would call them both "open", while groups like Fedora would not. (Fedora takes a hard line of 100% open, no exceptions.) My beef was with another member claiming that MeeGo was "more open" than Maemo, which I said was a moot point in this particular case. But then you didn't actually read the thread, or you'd have seen that.

MeeGo's also not a very functional system, last I saw, without closed components. When this discussion was happening, MeeGo didn't even have it's own GUI. It was "left to the implementer" that was picking up MeeGo as a "base". Does it at least have a desktop now? It can't be that speedy with a frame buffer driver. Can the "open" version make a call, or connect to wifi, or do anything useful? I know the binary blob version can, I'm talking about the fully open version you speak of here.

Sure you can; It's called Debian. MeeGo CE is based on MeeGo, just like Maemo is based on Debian. If you boot "just the open parts", you'll get just about the same functionality... not much. But then nobody is going to boot just the open parts for more than development, or to say they did it. And nobody is going to be able to implement the completely closed GSM driver modules in either as open source any time soon without breaking an NDA.

If you want a device that has no wifi, no gsm, no sensors, no bluetooth, no battery control, no gps, and a basic frame buffer for graphics, please do boot "OpenMeeGo". All of those (and more) rely on blobs, and can be easily outmoded and rendered crippled, broken, or worse if/when MeeGo 2.0 changes those interfaces. Most people didn't pay for all that hardware just to have it sit idle. Most won't want to lose all of that for this wonderful "platform" that will see 0 future ARM based processors after the N9. (Where's the MeeGo ARM app store again?)

So, again in my view, it's a moot point to say one is "more open", when it relies on almost the exact same set of binary blobs to do anything at all functional.

Yeah.. because there's not a list of them in the paragraph above, or in several other posts I've made in this thread (that you clearly didn't read) or people working on those closed bits making lists. Nope, not a clue as to what's closed in MeeGo.

That's one difference between you and I; I don't look to control others. I say what I mean and that's that. If others like what I say, or don't, that's their prerogative. I never claimed to be the end-all source of information, nor would I want to be. I just say what I understand, and usually wind up explaining why I take the view that I do. If others find utility in that, good for them. If you disagree with that view, good for you.

But to claim I don't know what I'm talking about, when I've referenced where my information is coming from, and not referencing any sources yourself? (Where did that "40%" estimate come from for Maemo openness?) Or saying that I'm somehow insulting you by having a different point of view? Or to claim that someones view is unintelligent just because it doesn't agree with your particular view? All I can say to that is: