My contention wasn't that it was the same amount, but that the items that are closed in both will cause both to meet their demise at about the same time. So, no... not "proven false".

Again, why would you build something not useable? No... I said that the goal of MeeGo CE was to make an OS for developers, not for every-day N900 users. Again, you lie about what I've said...

Why are you such a huge liar?

MeeGos main target (having started with Moblin) was Atom, not ARM. ARM was added as it was transitioned. So no, that was proven TRUE, not false, despite your objections to reality.

I know damn well what microcode is. The point being, AMD has never made an x86 line, nor have any of them be "x86". You saying it has is laughable, or pitiful, I'm not sure which.

Tell that to the MeeGo FAQ. They're the one saying it started with Moblin and derived from there.

I never said you did. Read wtf I'm writing. I said just having a target doesn't mean you can run the whole system on a platform designed around that target. You've implied that because the upstream kernel supported a compile option for ARM that MeeGo (or Moblin, or anything using that kernel) somehow magically works on the target, which is FALSE. In order for the whole system to work, it must all be ready to run on that platform, including drivers, libraries and middle-ware layers. Moblin was not capable of running on ARM because of that, and neither was MeeGo at it's conception, until Nokia rolled in it's changes.

Wow, what a great idea:
"Hi... MeeGo? Yes, I was told by a person that lies constantly about what I've said, that your origins aren't what you claim them to be on the FAQ on your site. Can you fix that? Thx!"

Call me silly: I believe a community FAQ written by the community in question just a smidge more than I do someone who's not involved in the project, and has lied over a dozen times about what I've said already.

The implication you made was that it was contributed by Nokia alone to a new project by Intel and Nokia. Reality is that Intel already had ofono, as it was a joint development. That would be two people buying a gift for themselves, then later opening it with people around, and you going "that one gave that gift to the other". No... ofono was a joint effort. MeeGo was a joint effort, by the same two companies. Nokia didn't bring ofono.

I work in CS too! And in CE, having a dual degree...

If I show said calculator to anyone without a degree in CS (and most people with one) and ask "what is this?" the answer will not be "a computer". It will be "a calculator". If I then ask "is it a computer?" most would still say no. In a strict sense, an abacus in a computer, since you can do computation on it. But that's not how the term is commonly used. This is all beside the point though.

Silly me, basing my "vague choice of words" on common usage.

Thanks for lyet another lie about what I've said. (Three times this post, for those counting along at home.)

What I said, had you bothered to read the post, was that there weren't enough ARM PCs with the correct level of hardware features commonly available. I even made a bullet pointed list of the requirements. You'll note that among them were things that even the latest BeagleBoard doesn't come with, like a GSM module, and a display.

But since you're playing these childish word games... Tell me: If there are so many ARM devices, and they're all "virtually identical" as you keep saying they are, why is it MeeGo doesn't work on the N950 and N9? I mean, really... if it all translates so well, and every pocket calculator is a suitable testing system, it should just work on the N950 and N9, shouldn't it?

And if they're "virtually the same hardware" as you've said many times now, what's the hold up? It's the same! You should be able to run it on the N8x0 and N7x00 as well, right?! They're virtually the same as a Beagle Board. You said so!

No... MeeGo can't. Because your logic is wrong... It's not a simple translation for one to the other. You need things to be very close, especially as the complexity of the system goes up. The oven timer software may very well run on my calculator. MeeGo will not. They all run ARM processors...


Yes, new sub-platform development is more MeeGo developmet, but the inverse is not true. More MeeGo CE like projects means LESS work on MeeGo CE, as people migrate to better platforms, and have limits on time. More MeeGo development also means more chance that the core will move on, causing old blobs to be incompatible. That will either cause CE to either need huge divergent changes to keep up, or to freeze once those binary blobs are no longer updating. Which part of that is hard for you to understand?

A frog in a pot of water will eventually die. A frog in a pot of boiling water will die much faster.

No.. not wrongly. Again: If the Beagle Board is so good, why is Meego not running on the N950 or N9 yet? Why can't it run on those if the Beagle Board is such a suitable test platform. The answer is, it's can't because it's not. Also, again: There would be far less interest (and far fewer people working on it) if one had to go out and spend hundreds of dollars on an otherwise useless kit just to join in.

Thanks again for proving my point. Again.

That's great... And how does that help AT&T turns on the TMobile 3G frequencies? Oh, wait... it doesn't.

The example about wifi I gave wasn't to talk about blobs. It was to talk about the fact that there are still methods to use hardware sometimes even when you can't upgrade it to the latest technology. For example, using an open wifi point and requiring ssh routing to get past the router. But that's not useful when the changes are locked into hardware. The N900 faces just such an issue around 3G. MeeGo can't fix that, even if it goes 100% opensource.

Your words, not mine.


Except that I mentioned it directly after the quote you cut, where I said "there was a commercial made, though I'm not sure it ever made it to anything but YouTube." Thanks for posting the link to the one example I gave as the exception, on YouTube.

Again, as far as I've seen, that advert was never played on any commercial station. There was not a second if air time purchased by Nokia for advertisement of the N900 in the US, and very little elsewhere, very similar to the campaign for the N9.

Perhaps if your words were a little clearer. Weren't you just criticizing me in that very post about not being clear?

Because they didn't put any funding behind advertising? Why are you asking me? Do I look like a Nokia decision maker? Do I have an @nokia.com tag in my signature?

I'm not debating if is should or shouldn't have. I'm talking about the factual past. The N900 was not targeted at the generic public. It was targeted, quite specifically, at a very narrow crowd.

This whole vein is off point though... you're good at that if nothing else: Squabbling about semantics and veering off topic when you're proven wrong, and/or have no facts to back up what you're saying.

Yes, Nokia can. Can you? Can the average developer? Maybe everyone developing for MeeGo could just go out and buy a multi-hundred dollar Beagle Board, on a whim, so that they can participate in Nokia/Intels new OS?

Or, here's a crazy idea: Nokia can spend a little bit on a small core of people to back-port the new OS to a platform that lots of developers already bought, and are carrying around in the their pocket right now! Imagine that! They can develop for it without having to purchases a multi-hundred dollar kit that serves no other purpose than to tinker on.

Which of those two ideas do you think will attract more developers for your new system? One where someone has to spend hundreds of dollars on an otherwise useless prototype system and then work to get it barely working? Or one where they already have a compatible system in their pocket, at 70% functionality?

Who's talking about market segment? You said the N810 wasn't a tablet. Just like I said that everything with an ARM processor in it isn't a "computer". Why do you have such a stick up you posterior about calling an oven timer a computer, but then don't want to call something the the word tablet in it's production title a tablet?

Oh, right.. I should follow your example, and lie about it, claiming that you said it instead, right?

Or it could be because you believe your own made up lies...

Tell you what... Let's just see...

In a year or two, I'm betting MeeGo is about as used as ofono is today (eg, not much). I'm also betting Maemo will still be the OS of choice on most N900s that are left, because the MeeGo CE project is dropped by Nokia and left behind, like Win 3.11 was when Win 95 came out. Time will tell.