Hi again. went in to try that and if I do adb devices it gives me a long number and says recovery. So it can see it in recovery mode. Once I enter a shell it decides it cannot see it anymore. If I enter odin mode it can't see it. If I try using odin on windows, it can't see anything at any time ( was always like that before anyway). So, I am unable to find out if I still have root. Outside of the shell, trying adb root tells me adbh cannot run as root in production builds, so I am thinking I cannot be root and that might be the 'root' ( ha ha) of the problem here. I am back to trying different roms to see if it will accept anything as 'signed' for now, unless anyone's got any other idea?