Have you looked at NOKIA's accounts for the relevant time period to see the cause? For example if you look at NOKIA's accounts for 2009 and 2010 it was NSN and NAVTEQ that were making the losses. NSN made an operating loss of EUR 1.64 billion in 2009 and EUR 636 million in 2010. NAVTEQ made an operating loss of 344 million in 2009 and 225 million in 2010. Devices and services on the other hand made an operating profit of EUR 3.3 billion in 2009 and the same again in 2010. If I look up NOKIA's accounts for the previous years what will I find, Lumiaman? Are you just giving us cherry picked snippets you've found that happen to support your prejudiced position? My bet is that you are.