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Posts: 1,389 | Thanked: 1,857 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Israel
#39
Originally Posted by stezz View Post
About bugzilla

Guys we cannot open right now a public bugtracker because if we do so nobody will read the bugs that you will open there and you will complain that nobody cares about the bugs you open and we will have 2 problems (having tons of bugs to read AND infuriated users) instead of 1 (not having a public bug tracker)

So we prefer to save you the effort of writing bugs that nobody will be able to reply to rather than give you an illusion and a delusion.

Opening a bugzilla instance and let it rot it's IMHO more offensive and way less professional.
First of, there are no much devices, so there is no reason there would be a lot of bug reports. Secondly, you do have to work on bugs, and you would have someone reading and getting all the mails, tweets and etc with same duplicated questions, so bug tracker actually would save your time and effort. As well as people here not only can report but as well provide patches, fixes and as well help with answers, marking duplicates and so on. You don't even need to pay them. They just bagging you to LET THEM HELP YOU!
As if you know (yeah you worked at nokia on maemo) there were many WONTFIX on Noka bugtrackers while devs here even provided patches for them. And you told us you don;t want to make same mistakes and you care and listen to community. But let's make it LESS TALKING, and more of ACTUALLY DOING!

Originally Posted by stezz View Post
About this community

I know rather well (or I think I knew) maemo.org as I had root access to these (or those to be more precise) servers once upon a time. xfade is working with us and he knows even more than me this place.

I do not want nor I can deny some continuity between Maemo/MeeGo and Sailfish. But at the same time I can't avoid pointing out the discontinuity as well. Jolla is Jolla, Nokia was Nokia. Startup, Corp.

Some users might want to jump to new places, make it neo900 (great project BTW), Sailfish, BB10 or WP. Some users might want to stay here.
You had root access, cool!!!! But TMO is not a computer, server or machine. You can't have root access to people. So i think you missed what is TMO and what it can do.
It's not Nokia forum and it was never Nokia forum. (DID YOU READ the arcticle at the first post on thread or not????)
They just provided infrastructure, and at some point they ditched us like they ditched OSS and a lot of devs(ex-nokians), we asked you for help at out hard times, and there was some misunderstanding.
Anyhow you didn't help out, but still community willing to help, to co-work. all you need to let them do what they know the best — being community. Most of fans ( and publicity in internet as well) for Jolla and i bet most pre-orders (your money) from this place, from TMO.
I get that you want to be in control of everything. You do not share, you do not co-work with community and you want admin(root access) to your own forum. But again, that's not a community, that's not make any difference from iPhone or Android. Both have *nix as base, but look where they are. You promised to do it other way and not make Nokia mistakes over again. So start paying attention. Even your closest supporters tell you that there is problem in your communication. And they give you all tools and solutions, but you find to do it "your own way". I understand that feeling of how cool it to create new company and product, but start thinking of future and start paying attention around, as as fast you started company it can fail even faster. The good intention is not enough. If it's just about selling product, you may get some share, but at some point you'll fail with giants like google as you need supporters, developers(native apps are must, otherwise why to buy not android phone for android apps) you need proper community. You have one here, yes it's not only about Jolla here and you are not in control here, but you can't be in control of community, otherwise it's called "using people for your needs".
Originally Posted by stezz View Post
We (Jolla) are guests here and since we respect the rules of the house we don't want to disturb nor invade and will invite you to our new place when it's finished constructions. We are building it one bit at a time. It is slow and painful, I can't deny.

We are not putting you off nor belittling you. We are not idiots nor evil and we do understand the power of this (or we think we do)

"You have to have it now" "Everything and right away". That's not the real world sorry. Think that you have 1 euro and you are out of water and bread. And you have to chose what to buy at the market.

That's the kind of choice that we have to make everyday.

There is no way we in Jolla can have the same power and throughput of Nokia. Don't expect it. At least right now.

We are constantly doing our best to deliver you the best experience. Wherever that will be.

Each and every single employee (plus some interns) of the company has worked twice as much as they should have during the last period.

I understand if you tell me that "you best is not enough" you are the users and (possible) buyers of the device and you have all the rights to complain and demand. Still that device has blood and tears inside.

And I hope you will understand if I don't have time to read and reply to all of the posts in reply to this post. If you don't understand... well... that won't change the fact that I will not have time to do it

--
Stezz
CTO and co-founder @ Jolla

Again, no one asks you to give everything and straight away. But if you do not communicate properly and do not cooperate with community, for sure people would assume you have everything under control. For example if neo900 would say we are releasing in 4 months and wouldn't update in progress everyone would assume they have finished product by then. Beta testing and co-working with community was always for help to each other, but now days it's only marketing move of getting fan boys and elitism IMHO, and i think no one would say a word if you would tell that product state is not finished and even you can't promise anything but at least you would share that you plan to support that... , to achieve this... and to deliver those.... Even if people do want to support you and do want you to succeed, but they want to be part of it as well, it can be writting history for us, as much as for you. As you might know there were great apps for maemo and harmattan, even OTA updates made by this community. They are excited not less than you. And they feel that this phone can be their baby in hack terms as for you in something you co-founded as company.
Even simple example as of MMS that you don't have. N900 didn't get MMS support as well, but our beloved frals made app for community, for free with the spirit. On other hand you doing your woodoo behind black doors. The point of geeks is knowledge, and knowledge is not only programing, administration or design skills, but also to know what is this product, how it was made and why it works that way and not the other way around.
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