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Posts: 114 | Thanked: 37 times | Joined on Aug 2014
#203
Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
Well first of all let's make very clear there is no SIM card holder problem! This is not denying or shoving under the carpet and I will explain why.
Just to be clear, when I refer to the SIM card holder issue, I am referring to both the repair-requiring phones and the public relations handling of that case, which has been discussed on this thread. So, just to be clear on that.

Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
Also I really wonder what you need or why you would need the minute details. The only cringeworthy thing in the thread you pointed at is ZoG's behaviour.
What puzzles me are the constant mischaracterizations of my views in this thread. Is it genuine misunderstanding or a way to exaggerate my point of view, so that it is somehow easier to counter? Hopefully the former.

I do not need "minute details" of anything. I am explaining my opinion why I think added openness and transparency would be beneficial for Jolla's public image. In the case of the SIM card holder TJC thread, I think it was a mistake to close it a few times and I think it was a mistake to withhold any explanation especially once the root cause was found.

I am not demanding "minute details". I am suggesting some level of added openness, of "brutal honesty" as jalyst put it so eloquently, that I think would be beneficial both to the community and Jolla's public image, as I sense a certain reluctance on Jolla's part on discussing difficult topics.

Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
Also getting into detail about this gets most likely in the murky legal waters of ODM agreements, NDA's and what not... Not to mention the possibility of this being turned into "Jolla confirms/admits enormous flaw! OMG!" But basically as an intelligent being you could probably already have figured out what it is. But anyway.
Why would it be a problem that Jolla admits a flaw? If there is, as you say, a batch of phones with faulty SIM holders - just say so. This sentence alone in that TJC thread would have been a lot better than was gotten:

Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
So somehow a very small batch of phones got shipped with a faulty SIM holder.
That is, by the way, the first time at least I have ever seen anyone from Jolla comment on what was the SIM card holder issue. So, I guess better late than never.

Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
This kind of thing can happen with any product, and is actually very common in the electronics industry. Especially when production gets ramped up for the first time on a new product. First batches always have a few more issues. Well that goes for everything, also cars, fridges, etc... Big manufacturers actually adjust their production and QA based on this type of warranty cases. The exact reasons why this happened I can probably not legally expose, nor am I sure that what I heard is correct. And I maybe have already said too much, I really hope it is not the case (Btw even CTO's have to respect NDA's unlike you stated) Also this is only what I understood of the problem, I was not involved into the details of this, so honestly I am not even the best person to say anything about this. Also not being directly involved is why some things go unanswered since the person who knows might not see the question, and the person who sees it might not know enough to give a valid answer.
Of course CTO's have to respect NDA's, but the likelihood of them dictating what is public (and thus not covered under any NDA) in a company is much higher than for lower-level people. But given the past of Jolla, and the tendency to not discuss difficult topics in public, I must admit I'm a little skeptical an NDA was the reason here. Without any better information, my guess is that it was deemed better for Jolla to not disclose an explanation at that time.

Anyway, the person answering in that TJC thread was Jolla's CTO. I'm sure he was aware of what the problem and the explanation were. It was simply withheld from public for whatever reason. I'm advocating Jolla adding more openness and transparency, because I think it would do them good.

Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
Also comparing it to a Toyota recall is wrong. A recall is for a widespread known issue. This was/is just a small set of highly publicized warranty cases. Which is why it took so long to identify and find the cause. We had to wait to get one of those few problematic devices, test it, go to the odm, have the odm test a faulty device, etc... all that takes time.
Recall can be for a small subset. But it was just an example of company providing detailed explanations, as one poster here said he had never seen any company post any details of such issue.

Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
IMHO saying that we confirmed the issue, found the cause and ask to send in the device for warranty repair is more than enough. Why you think we should need to give you the minute details is beyond me. Unless you have the equipment to fix everything yourself? This said I have a hard time still grasping what you exactly want.
I don't think you need to. You certainly don't have to. I think you would be better and better off if you did, though. It is respectful towards the customer, the community and it is transparency. But most importantly, information helps people to deal with issues they are experiencing. Information is caring. Silence brings out the boogeyman in more was than one. And vague platitudes and non-answers are even worse than silence.

Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
And for clarity. There is (to my understanding) no and never has been a SIM card holder problem. Of course I am sure some paranoiac/troll is going to call this a denial...
It seems to contradict your earlier sentence that there was a batch of faulty SIM holders? I mean, if there was such a thing, so what, why not just say it and that it will be swapped under warranty. What is this circling around things.

Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
There was indeed a mistake made back then. And I personally yelled at a few people that we were doing the wrong thing back then. But then again I hope we learned from it. Aren't we allowed to make mistakes?
Sure. And if you did yell back then, good for you. Apparently someone higher up decided Jolla wouldn't be open about things then even though such voices were inside Jolla. That's unfortunate. I just don't personally see that anything has changed. If it will, good for you and the company, I think changing this will serve you better. You may find that people are much more forgiving when given actual, relevant information. Silence or vague platitudes on the other hand tend to make issues even bigger than they are.

fk_lx (even though I disagree with his rampage style) has a fairly good list of continued silences in this post, maybe it is something your organization can consider:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=186

That is why I posted here to congratulate jalyst on his post. Maybe his post will help you understand - don't mind my bollocks, if jalyst's post can help you think about this, great:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=29

Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
It is really hard to do engineering, debugging, QA, customer care and customer relationships all at once. We are people and there are things we are better at than others. And things we have done before and haven't done before. Most of us are engineers and never had to do PR. So that is a new world to us.
Sure, I get that. Hence the feedback. I don't want you guys to fail.

Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
And before you say I avoided the fk_lx case. As said earlier I do not want to get involved into that mess.
No need to, although I must say it getting bigger has, in my view, some things to do with this same reluctance to deal with issues with brutal honesty. Had that been done earlier on to deal with it, fk_lx probably would never have blown the gasket like he did. (And far be it from me to agree with a lot of his style, although his posts in this thread are quite solid.)