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Posts: 1,389 | Thanked: 1,857 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Israel
#64
Originally Posted by szopin View Post
I have to disagree strongly, jolla was very open why internal tracker has to be closed (oxy***** but it isn't once you consider business obligations), again this thread is about ideas that don't require jolla to break business partnerships/relationships/selling stock, more about what the community can do on its own, without 'release all the sources' crying.

you can add oxy-m-o-r-o-n to the smartwatch list
while bug tracker could be nice (as i do not see how question->answers TJC engine as a tool for that) I was not referring to that, even not to proper roadmap, by the way how come both can make the problem with business or partners, I have no idea, as it's for reporting bugs from community and not posting leaked information, right?
I'm talking though about problems that appeared and people complained over twitter or TJC and only after some point they got Jolla attention, while they could prevent all the noise from the beginning, for example the most common is communication problem, which btw still exists mostly.



Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Here's my problem. I don't think that they've "failed" per se; they've yet to reach critical mass in regards to developers bringing forward offerings that people truly want. Instead, it's a bunch of stuff under-utilizing tools and libraries adding to what some would call a rather difficult to get used to, gesture based UI.

And to think... it was stated to be more open than Android, Windows Phone 8, iOS... yet, each time a "more open" device comes out, it rarely equates into sales. Face it, the community failed in their support. But Jolla didn't grow that community either.

The marketing was done horribly, the way that they've been seen on social and/or other media outlets is rather amateurish and at times, a bit too reactive. They have somehow incurred the wrath of a certain individual; so having a semi-nemesis must count for something, right?

Really, the issue with Jolla is that they never really told their compelling story to people that would share it. Nerds, geeks, developers tend to talk within their own tight circles only. Early adopters will always paint the "I MUST HAVE IT" picture followed very closely with the "IT WASN'T WORTH IT" picture.

Jolla didn't connect with the right people. They didn't push into certain markets - no, I don't mean North America. They didn't really embrace the push they had that would have been seen as early momentum.

What to do now? The community didn't support Jolla. I think it's best that the community moves out of the way. It's too toxic to have this community to support anything other than their own agendas as of late.

That's my take.
The success of android and iPhone are communities/fanboys. While company can make applications and promote and partnership with other companies, it would not help (we now see the younite and angry birds example). Most 3rd parties would not spend money or time to develop applications/services without community behind platform, and community would not grow with no applications(as users part) and with no company cowork and trying to make most to comfort/interest devs or user community those devs would develop too. Now as we know jolla is not more open that android and i bet it would not be, as there would be always some "but", why it is so different and better? In other post someone called jolla as more smartphone that iPhone, but I'm not sure how "smartphonability" is measured. That you have linux console on small device and different UI(arguably with good UX, as it's not feels native as for example innovative N9 was). While android and even maybe iPhone can provide you with ssh and terminal, they also provide your with better support both from companies and community and more services and ecosystem. You can tell that Jolla has small resources as always, but that's exactly the point of having community with opensource spirit, but they want to be the creators and in control, they do not want to be co-creaters, do it makes no different from other platforms. I still do not understand what "unlike" stand for, everyone loves to use this word but seems no one can explain what is this unlikeness.
And as of your proposal to stand behind do called toxic community, who they sell phone too? Who would bring income? In every community there is toxic, but as far as community is active and jolla is helping, this toxic would be in shadow of that work, but cooperation is so small that this toxic is throwing shadow on all that.
You see, even Microsoft nowdays creating hacks tons event and somehow listens to community and if such big corporate company changing it's politics (to survive and blend in as things and trends change), why jolla that always talks about FOSS doesn't do that? They limit community, they try to shape it exactly as they want, but it doesn't work (in any relationships).
But as you propose to leave community behind(as they try it from the begining) and what? Throw drop codes sometimes? Don't we have such companies in Linux world, but we still do not trust them and "hate" them. I think there are reasons why opensource OpenOffice was forked (and mysql btw), it was opensource but it repeat again - opensource is not even about code, it's more than that.
Btw i did not want to raise it, but I'll do. As far as i know few sailors left, we do not know real reason. They left peacefully (i mean still saying jolla and sailors are awesome) but as i see it when someone quit it means he is not fully likes what he does or what he gets. So why if jolla so hacker friendly and opensource and interesting, people would leave?

I see it as if jolla doesn't want to help itself, no one can...

P.S. It's not a rant, I'm not just saying "jolla crap" or call it names, I do tell where I see problem and even sometimes propose resolutions, but it's so hard for some to get negative opinions, so instead of stopping and asking "maybe there is something I can learn from... there is something behind this" they have their eyes red in blood with "how come that someone said the bad word about my beloved company I will give my kidneys for" (who is toxic after all)
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