I do not disagree with this sentiment at all. But the playing field before iOS and Android arrived made it easier to build their current "empires".

Agree here too actually. But you're skirting my statement - this community is toxic and underutilizes the tools and libraries to deliver things that have not exactly grown third party support. It's "toxic" not because of how badly those apps were; but because of how toxic the community has been to Jolla.

Simply stated, if the community is so willing to go after Jolla, the people that made their phone, how dare anybody try to charge them for something on an "open" (disputable) phone or platform. If I were a third party app developer that had something that could expand my reach but I saw how the community was so steeped into cannibalization over minor things; I would avoid that platform at all costs until it no longer made financial sense to avoid it. That's not going to happen quite yet.

Mostly due to how it was marketed; the rest due to how the community treats their own kind. A stranger has no chance.

Me neither. I would say that Jolla actually fits my needs for a smartphone better than the iPhone would actually. I don't consume music, videos or other of their iTunes based offerings. I consume other data - but so far Android has filled that gap. So did BB10.

Usablity, BB10, followed closely by a simplified take on Android fits me now. Before, Harmattan fit my usage patterns better than anybody had before.

Again, I chalk this up to bad marketing. That personal story of what made them unlike was actually established upfront; just wasn't maintained. Now? It's an afterthought.

Anybody else that is tired of the status quo but also knows how to transition people from the status quo to something just as familiar and user friendly with the same and/or better options. I want Skype? I'd have to use the Android version that's actually lagging behind the iOS and Windows Phone version. That can't be helped though, that's Microsoft.

I want to use Google Hangouts? I use it for SMS, chats, video and team coordination now more than ever - as an extension from Google Voice and G+ (which I'm not a fan of). Guess what? I'd be out of luck on Jolla. I like to sketch my notes - I don't have iOS Penultimate and I've not seen any talk of Evernote from Android working on Jolla where the newest version allows for sketching.

That last one, I might be wrong; however I'm in a market where I can't even try that out. And that's another problem.

But who to sell to? Anybody but this toxic community. They won't appreciate it anyway because they don't have granular control with so many things - the UI being the biggest pet peeve it seems. There's other things, but in the end, this community is not the intended target. If they were; then a developer's program for devices should have been instated.

The devs had to buy their own devices.

Early adopters that are outliers - there's a lot of people that are not trustful of Apple and Google at the moment. I'd advertise that I had: no NSA backends, I'd expose each and every government request for information, our OS is optimized to the point of where it doesn't need the nonsensical 8-core and 4gb hardware that's already obsolete the moment it arrives, and there's better alternatives to how you privately chat/talk to people from app to app or phone to phone. Not saying that security via obscurity is an option or marketable stance; however it would have reinforced the pertinent parts of "unlike".

First part, agree. Second part, disagree. Toxicity has reached to a point where it's upfront and not dealt with.

Now I think you're getting to the root of why the community might be toxic. I agree here too.

No. Don't leave the community as it stands. Embrace it; good and bad. Don't try to shape it; learn how to interface it. Set up a dev program, open up how you communicate to the community, have each and every person on your roster that's visible be on the same page. Have hack-a-thons where you embrace and push the fruits of those labors. Show your monthly idea/company/direction off in a way that seems genuine and shows your device as the framework to innovation.

Don't market to a group of experienced developers that they can change the world then tell them the parameters after the fact. At times, I feel this is what happened. And this is a beef with the marketing, not the company.

Personally, I think you have some great ideas - it just comes down to a company coming down to eye level with the developers and the community and understanding that they'll have to grow together while growing the platform. Together.

Not as something that's to be put on a leash.

I'm still aiming at marketing primarily. There's other things that need help; however I'd say that if you market something, use words that people can believe because they see it (or lie and distort reality bad enough to where your lies become promises).

I like Marc Dillon for instance. He talks, I listen, I get excited. Then it hits me... I can't buy the damn thing to even touch it and use it in real life situations. As a dev, I've no access to a lesser priced version. So I'm stuck. I could buy via Amazon UK, send to a friends house in the UK, then receive it in the US. But you know what?

I don't have a compelling reason to do that. Not after what I lived through with the N9. No thanks. I do that, the company changes direction, or continues to exclude me and what will I have? A phone I'd rather not sell on eBay yet because it'll bring me next to nothing.

So I'll wait.

Didn't see your responses as a rant at all. Thank you for the adult conversation and thank you for not taking my statements as a rant either.

I rather enjoyed this back and forth.