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Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#138
Benny, you're one of the few who has been able to take the time to write an in depth response without any flames. Thank you.

Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
I can see the point of the simple "check mail while on the go" or "look up one site, then close browser" use cases.
Clearly, if this is what you have in mind, the current concept of Mameo isn't as ideal as the things you propose. (Hey! We agree here!)
Good. The point in this regard is also merely a default setting. IOW, assume the user wants an application fullscreen with a simple setting to make it not fullscreen (and more applications which make use of the powerful touchscreen). This is because this default setting is what new users (whom we want to attract to this environment) want.

It isn't as if you'll attract die-hard iPhone or Mac fans either. First you get the users inbetween Maemo and iPhone. Because the difference is so huge between the 2, there is a wide pool available. So whoever believes the next Maemo is going to be like an iPhone is a... well, she isn't realistic, nor is she able to discern my points to see the bigger picture.

I suspect these users simply don't want change, nor welcome new(, less tech-inclined) users. Perhaps the N8x0 is the last from Nokia they like (also given they appear to be the same ones not excited by the summit or the HS*PA chipset). I believe they should jump on the next hacker/niche platform.

But the point is: Would anybody pay $450,- or so for a device with only this limited capability? The things you talk about are things I do regularly on my S60 cell phone. Yes, this S60-phone could need a little love and attention in terms of UI design. It's not bad, but some of the points you make here about Maemo apply to S60. It could be improved.
If you take what I written in the paragraphs above into account I don't see how you can see much devaluation. You use the same Maemo environment, with some very powerful features in the core OS to make the device more user-friendly (these features became known on the Maemo summit). You get a HS*PA chipset which allows you 24/7 Internet connectivity. You do not have to use this chipset although indeed you do pay for it.

Regarding S60: indeed. And my wish is that Nokia brings the 2 platforms together so a user wouldn't even notice which OS is running under the hood. Or even much better: so that when the user wishes to, she could replace S60 with Linux or the other way around, running (almost) the same applications. But that is far fetched. Keep in mind S60 has from the ground, by default capability-based security features. Enabled.

[...]

Given these prices, I'd either want a Maemo-device that's a GSM-phone for €77,- or a Maemo-tablet that's not a phone for €45. If it is as restricted as you propose. If it's made for the casual "one task at a time" use case.

When something is in the €300-500 price range, it needs to do much, much more than just let me "open website, read, close". I want to do what I described in my first post: Things that require workflows across several applications.
Where have I suggested one is not allowed to run more than 1 application? I'm not suggesting one isn't able to copy/paste. There are simply tasks which do not require such option. If you are able to use Canola to use your NIT as a DAP you will not need an iPod. This makes the device more valuable. But you would want to run such application full screen. I believe applications like Canola, Carman, Liqbase add a huge value to the NIT because 1) they do one job a dedicted hardware device normally does very well 2) they provide a very user-friendly interface making use of the touchscreen (which you cannot on a nettop) 3) because they are user-friendly they attract new users who previously would buy a phone or nettop.

Some IRC channels are lame, you have several minutes between relevant messages. I use this time to go through my newsfeeds. You say the interaction between feed reader and browser is minimal? Not if many of the feeds you follow only provide headlines or teasers, but not the full text content. It's a constant back-and-forth between feed reader and browser. Then I find something I copy and send via mail right there an then, while I'm at it. I dont go through all the feeds and then close the feed reader and return to this one page and copy and then close the browser to open modest to ...
This is a usability issue though. Lets say you have your RSS reader convenienty in your browser, in full screen interface. After all, you are picking what you'd like to read more about. Once you click on a headline it shows the actual text of the article. You read it, and then you conveniently pick the next headline. There is no distraction. There are no flashing windows or back and forth between windows. You stay in the same interface. It might even be feasable to make the RSS reader visual (with the interface of the website as a thumbnail) as a SpeedDial.

I'm sorry to hear you consider my usage of my brain suboptimal. I feel I'm getting along just fine, maybe I'm lacking some of your social skills.
Some people just behave in a different way with a UI than other people. The way a programmer interacts is vastly different from most other people in a society.

What use would it be to make NITs for the same segment of the market that's already well covered by Apple? Wouldn't it be much wiser to go for the segment that's currently completely ignored by Apple? Not only would it reduce unnecessary fights, it also seems that Apple is holding the smaller segment (as compared to all the people who choose not to buy Apple, no matter which market) and the other one would be more profitable.
Because other corporations (including Nokia) are cloning the Apple paradigm to grab that big pool between the iPhone and the NIT, and I don't want to keep the NIT as a hacker device which only a few people use; I want to see Maemo, Linux and the NIT more widely used by people who also are able to use the device. For this the usability has to improve, as well as the UI. Else, if that doesn't happen, other corporations will make it happen and the NIT will eventually fade away like Sharp Zaurus.

Same here. I don't even remember people's names, let alone street names, yet I never get lost and find my way because I somehow always have a clear 3D model of where I am right now and how I got there from where I started. Nice chat. I just don't see how this relates to kiosk-mode applications that prevent task switching and adjusting volume etc.
Exactly. I mentioned it because it is a good example of how one uses visual imagination to complete a task. A graphics artist requires this.

I've been in the USA and I was shocked at the signs on the road. Very often the Americans use English text on their signs where we simply use symbols. If you'd just use symbols it'd be much easier. Yes, there is a learning curve to learn the meaning of the symbols, but once you know them it is very easy to follow.

Oh come on, you made this up right now.
Its just like how people only read the first page of search results on a search engine. They look, see if what they searched for is there, and then they continue or go back. If one would plan to go further than 1 page one would open a new tab. The back button is also used much more than the forward button which is why Mozilla makes the back button more prominent.

And even if they did: In MicroB, they do this by 1 click on a button that's always visible. In Fennec, they need 2 interactions, one of which is completely counter-intuitive. MicroB wins.
True, but once you are used to the Fennec interface you quickly tab 2 times to perform the gesture.

Among geeks, not in the real world. Geeks loved Operas mouse gestures. Nobody ever used them in real life. Geeks loved exotic skins on media players. 99,99% of the users wouldn't even find a play button with these skins.
Because there is a learning curve and because Opera is not very popular.

I'd argue that on a touch device gestures using touchscreen with finger are more user friendly than keybinds or clicking an icon especially if the gestures are equal in different applications (Apple is known for using the same binds in their whole platform).

The touchscreen is one of the components which makes the NIT unique; lets abuse it so much that it adds substantional value to the platform.

Ofcourse regular ports are still useful (I will also still use screen, ssh, and remote desktop), but not to most (new) users whom we wish to attract.
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