maemo.org - Talk - View Single Post - Where is Nokia - no announcement no product

	benny1967	2009-01-12 , 10:12
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#258

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

I can't see the use of some parts optimized for d-pad and/or hardware_keys, other parts for stylus, and yet other parts for finger. I'td imply every UI developer must keep 2 or 3 modus operandi in mind which would start at Nokia Fremantle development.

I simply can't follow you any more.
a) I never talked about optimizing for fingers. On the contrary, I said a finger UI usually fails and therefore shouldn't be considered much.
b) I also don't say that different parts of the UI should be optimized for different input methods. Why make everything so complicated? Most graphical GUIs I know can be used with hardware keys (you can use Windows/Gnome/... more efficiently with the keyboard than with the mouse). This includes all versions of maemo so far: There's nothing "optimized for stylus" or "optimized for D-Pad", still you can use both to cotrol the device. (And you can also control the whole UI with a bluetooth keyboard without even touching it... I wonder how this would work if the UI wasn't made to accept hardware keys.)

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

On a side note, if you believe the paradigm of finger touchscreens is indeed non-existant you must believe these people who buy devices such as iPhone, BlackBerry Storm, HTC Touch Diamond, Nokia 5800 are lunatics; IOW, not understand how they're able to even use their device, let alone prefer the device.

I don't buy this. Something which is completely junk and does at its core nothing cannot become popular. There must be something right, and it cannot be placebo. The happy hormones gained from buying device X whither away at some point after which ratio takes command. If it was utter crap, we'd see 'em sold en masse on eBay, and any kind of hype would sooner rather than later vanish.

The hype will vanish, I'm sure.
Also, people do get irritated by their jPhones etc. the longer they use them. There are other mechanisms that keep them loyal customers. (One thing that's great about Apple, for example, is the complete "all in one" experience you get with the ecosystem around iTunes, the Pods, the phone and a OSX computer. If you want this experience, you have to cope with the shortcomings of the UI.) - Also, people tend to stand up for their own decisions even though they prove wrong afterwards. And finally: Yes, we do see touch devices returned in large numbers when factors like these don't play a role. Like when employees were given touch screen devices (HTC) as company phones and returned them in favor of the alternative, a plain SonyEricsson K550i.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

I can also imagine some people just don't like a screen of that size with their fingers touching it. Texrat mentioned the lifetime of the touchscreen. I'm sure there are other examples. Like people with big fingers. A stylus is a fixed size; fingers are not.

... all valid points for not having a touch only UI but having a choice. People are different. Let's not force them all into the same way of using the UI.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Besides that, you must learn your muscles to adjust --so to say. Acquiring decent precision takes time. Same is true for painting, or spinning vinyl. Some might never learn it, other have a gift for it, most take some average time to 'get acustomed to it'. Which is why I wanted you to reflect about how long you used these devices you mentioned.

I'm 41 years old and had a lot of UIs... from my Atari 400, MS-DOS, Windows (1.0, 3.11, 95, 98/Me, NT, 2000, XP, Vista), KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, OS2005-2008, a number of phones by different manufacturers, VCRs and DVD players,...
Yes, it may take a few hours or so to feel comfortable and at home, but if a UI requires people to adjust their muscles and do some training as for painting... and then, some will still never learn it, while other happen to "have a gift"... then there's something seriously wrong with it. Any UI has to adapt to the people who use it, not the other way round.

The iPod Touch I had for about a week; MO-FR, IIRC. - The jPhone I returned on the 2nd day, but play with it every now and then as a friend of mine desperately tries to convince me that using it will save the whales and free Tibet.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

How does the scrollbar know whether you are using your finger or your stylus? By default it cannot. You'd need either a hardware key, or detection on-the-fly. In the case of the latter, a big scrollbar optimized for touch UI uses already space of the screen so why use the smaller one for stylus if you want to allow either? And suddenly, slowly but surely your whole UIis finger optimized... woops! Again, I don't think either would be easy to implement so one has to pick either finger or stylus.

... again, I'm completely lost here. I don't understand what you're talking about. Why should a scollbar "know"? It didn't in OS2005 and it was fine the way it was.
Anyway, we're so far off topic here, it doesn't matter anymore.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

When browing a user usually wants to either read or scroll.

What are the other reasons? 1) Clicking on a link (to go to there, or to copy it) 2) Selecting text to copy/paste it.

.... click on an image to save it or copy its location. View HTML source (of page or frame or selection). Open frame in new window. Open link in new window/tab. Perform some action to trigger what's "mouseover" on a desktop. Zoom in/out. View image properies. View link properties. .... Quite few things to accomplish when all you have for input is the press of a finger.

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