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allnameswereout's Avatar
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#299
Remember not all hardware keyboards are equal...

For me it is impossible to do serious console or chat on a Nokia E51 with a keypad or (hypothetically) a device with virtual keyboard such as N800 or a Sharp Zaurus SL C1000 with a bad hardware keyboard.

With Nokia E71 and Nokia N810 I can do it.

Originally Posted by lma View Post
Has something like this been done?
This is a core aspect of UI designing: testing the UI out on users. Although usually happens with mockups or much later, after the design. Err, I mean, after internal testing when developers get a preview

Originally Posted by danramos View Post
[...]lack of TWO SD slots (really, who wants microSD? And only one?).[...]
We discussed this elsewhere.

Once my tablet has 32 GB SD it will become my MP3 player replacing my Iriver H340.

But it is not as if this is a necessary for most people, and its not as if I really need all those GBs. They're part of lazyness.

I bought the N810 for its GPS (a mistake) and hardware keyboard (a sound choice; especially as compliment to phone or replacement for laptop).

Perhaps one has to realize there are different hardware demands. Differentiate them in various groups which make sense and serve different types of groups. However, do not assume people buy both devices.

Originally Posted by daperl View Post
As others have alluded to before, usage can have 3 equally important modes, even if these modes change rapidly:
  • external buttons only
  • stylus only
  • external buttons and stylus in concert
So, agreeing to disagree is all good, just to the point where you remove my 12 buttons. Then, not so good.
Uh, nope. You're forgetting finger.

Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
I simply can't follow you any more.
a) I never talked about optimizing for fingers. On the contrary, I said a finger UI usually fails and therefore shouldn't be considered much.
Fremantle will be optimized for finger instead of stylus.

b) I also don't say that different parts of the UI should be optimized for different input methods. Why make everything so complicated?
Because else you have half-baked design decisions.

Most graphical GUIs I know can be used with hardware keys (you can use Windows/Gnome/... more efficiently with the keyboard than with the mouse). This includes all versions of maemo so far: There's nothing "optimized for stylus" or "optimized for D-Pad", still you can use both to cotrol the device. (And you can also control the whole UI with a bluetooth keyboard without even touching it... I wonder how this would work if the UI wasn't made to accept hardware keys.)
Windows NT/GNOME is of no concern in these comparisons because they are not mobile embedded UI.

The hype will vanish, I'm sure.
Why are you sure.

Also, people do get irritated by their jPhones etc. the longer they use them.
Why? How big %?

Also, people tend to stand up for their own decisions even though they prove wrong afterwards.
People tend to work around them sooner or later; e.g. jailbreaking. Costs time and effort though.

And finally: Yes, we do see touch devices returned in large numbers when factors like these don't play a role.
We see this phenomenom at large? Please, some references.

Like when employees were given touch screen devices (HTC) as company phones and returned them in favor of the alternative, a plain SonyEricsson K550i.
Sure. Some people only want a phone to phone and SMS with.

In any case, I do not deny that a hardware_key device can be sufficient or can be good. I assert a finger-based touchscreen device can be good, but it is not something you like to hear or are even able to imagine, it seems.

... all valid points for not having a touch only UI but having a choice. People are different. Let's not force them all into the same way of using the UI.
You give up very quickly. I say: allow callibration of fingers.

As for choice, perhaps some device like N800, relatively cheap, with new hardware (OMAP3) but without fancy HD camera or HSPA. But then again, you MUST have a stylus mode. You MUST optimize your GUI for stylus usage.

I'm 41 years old and had a lot of UIs... from my Atari 400, MS-DOS, Windows (1.0, 3.11, 95, 98/Me, NT, 2000, XP, Vista), KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, OS2005-2008, a number of phones by different manufacturers, VCRs and DVD players,...
Several changes in UI in OS200x were stylus and finger-related changes.

Yes, it may take a few hours or so to feel comfortable and at home, but if a UI requires people to adjust their muscles and do some training as for painting... and then, some will still never learn it, while other happen to "have a gift"... then there's something seriously wrong with it. Any UI has to adapt to the people who use it, not the other way round.
It merely means not everyone is suitable for every device. Not every body type is made for swimming, hiking or marathon. While a hiker can run a marathon, he'll never be good at it because it isn't his quality; even after much training.

... again, I'm completely lost here. I don't understand what you're talking about. Why should a scollbar "know"? It didn't in OS2005 and it was fine the way it was.
It only has to if you want to support both a stylus optimized UI and a finger optimized UI.

.... click on an image to save it or copy its location. View HTML source (of page or frame or selection). Open frame in new window. Open link in new window/tab. Perform some action to trigger what's "mouseover" on a desktop. Zoom in/out. View image properies. View link properties. .... Quite few things to accomplish when all you have for input is the press of a finger.
Zoom in/out are hardware keys for, and double click already zooms in and out. Try it in Fennec. The other options, minus opening new tab, is not something I like to do when I'm on tablet so it should be hidden away or not be part of feature set at all. Less is sometimes more.
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Last edited by allnameswereout; 2009-01-12 at 16:54.
 

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