maemo.org - Talk - View Single Post - Maemo 5 design decision: call lists (was: Wired Magazine

	Texrat	2009-10-28 , 14:56
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#80

Originally Posted by ragnar

I guess if people would ask at the same time that why aren't more Nokians actively involved in these forums and at the same time would read the general tone and respect level of the individual messages, for instance in this particular thread, you would perhaps see some hints of the potential conflict built within.

i.e. semirandom people calling you incompetent based on some design detail does not really encourage you to actively participate in these discussions. Just as an observation. Hopefully I won't get flamed for this also.

...and I hope none of that has come from my posts. I do get genuinely irritated with what I perceive to be quirks (can't call them bugs) but I am not going to make that personal. My only issue with your responses per se, ragnar, is a stubborn refusal to even consider that there may be merit in the customer's input and feedback. IMO that contradicts the spirit of openness Maemo is trying to foster.

However, let me just say I highly appreciate your participation... even though I disagree with the tone at times.

--

Then again, for the actual issue. There was no usable tab component available for the designer (in this case me) to consider. The UI style guidance was to try to simplify the UI's, and one clear target for these was to clear out tabbed UI's, clear out split panel UI's as much as it is possible. Doing an exception for only one application wouldn't make sense in terms of UI consistency. Why could Call UI only do this and the other applications would not then do it. Sometimes overall UI consistency overrides the individual optimization you might want to do on some particular application.

You're oversimplifying the issue, and making untenable assumptions.

But I just want to make certain things clear:

1) Tabs in and of themselves are not a bad thing. They have tremendous value in certain contexts. One of those is in partitioning information so as to prevent "infinite" scrolling. I'm sure you know very well that tabs were originally implemented on websites to solve that very problem. So I don't understand an abject prejudice against them as a UI element. They're useful.

2) Tabs alone are not the issue and there is no reason to be so pedantic about them as if they were. The issue is allowing customers to segregate list items by state, something they already have the ability to do on numerous platforms, especially cell phones. Maemo is now taking that ability away without offering an equivalent functionality. People accustomed to filtering/sorting call history are not going to like that functionality arbitrarily going away.

3) Regarding all apps limited to the exact same UI elements: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Just do the right thing" is something that it somewhat understandable from an outside perspective, because it allows the opinion holder to not care about the realities that were and are present for designing and implementing any feature within the device.

"Just accept the changes we are forcing onto you" is what isn't understandable.

Hopefully nobody really thinks that the user would either select to buy this device or then leave it on the shop table would be dependent on whether there would be tabs on the missed calls list in the Call UI.

Just brace yourself for after-the-fact complaints. People are going to assume the functionality is there. You seem to think that simply because only a handful have complained here that we won't represent the norm... but, again, that ignores the people coming to the N900 from platforms already providing this common functionality.

I'm personally a big fan of 37signals thinking in postings like these:
http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch05_Start_With_No.php
http://37signals.com/svn/archives/000805.php

The former talks essentially about saying no and shipping now vs. shipping in 2012 after saying yes too many times. The latter talks about "just do it" idealistic attitude of every feature you can think of vs. the reality of what saying yes to any feature actually means.

I'm personally a big fan of a company that distributes 300 devices, asks for feedback, and LISTENS.

And please take the "asking for every feature" meme off the table.

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Last edited by Texrat; 2009-10-30 at 05:40.

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