Can not give date if you have no boxed devices for shipping and that is the point why there are probably no boxed units at this time.

No official Nokia person has published the 9th or any other date. Just that it "should" ship in November. This means we could see phones delivered in December.

A Nokia sales rep on a phone line usually knows about as much as you do or less, since they are not obsessed with getting every piece of info about the device. They are there to answer calls based on scripts they are supposed to comply with and collect their paycheck.