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Posts: 14 | Thanked: 31 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ Helsinki
#117
Originally Posted by Mark Wilcox View Post
Personally I see this as an extremely dangerous attitude coming from a very flawed analysis of the mobile app development space:

What really worries me there is that someone working on the UI framework actually believes the frameworks don't matter - the app developers will come anyway! Or am I reading that wrong?
Are you a yellow newspaper journalist or what? You are following weird logic. I'm talking about app stores and what's important for a
platform to be succesful (from the amount of applications point of view) and you are making conclusion that I (as a person) think that framework doesn't matter. Not to mention your dramatic remarks: "really worries", "extremely dangerous attitude".

Originally Posted by Mark Wilcox View Post
Native Symbian code has around 300 million devices total, at least half of those are running recent versions of S60 and are out there in the market now. How many people want to develop apps for them and what's the level of activity there now? Android is a total counter-proof to your claim. Hardly any devices at all sold relative to other platforms and yet the second most apps of anything but the iPhone. Palm is the only thing with fewer sales and it actually has very few apps compared to the other US platforms, largely because it only has a web-scripting environment (well actually they just added native plug-ins) - which is what had early iPhone developers screaming for a proper native SDK.
I'm not following you. What's your point? Symbian doesn't have many applications because it's framework is bad or because it doesn't have app store (where profit is split 70 by 30)?

Originally Posted by Mark Wilcox View Post
What I'm looking for here is not changing APIs significantly without a very good reason. So I'm not talking about the whole thing, just QApplication vs DuiApplication. I'm not expecting you to make a next generation UI without using the graphics view architecture and animation framework.

Two possibilities spring to mind immediately, one is that you could pass something in using the standard command line arguments... people did that for decades with main() without needing to modify the entry point. The other is that you could get another parameter added to QApplication - it seems there's an S60-specific one already:
http://qt.nokia.com/doc/4.6/qapplica...QApplication-6
So, how your QT application will look like then if you would want to port it to Symbian?

original app:
QApplication app(argc, argv);

for symbian you need that factory i guess (lets assume you need it). How are you going to include that as a first parameter without change code significantly?

are you going to write something like this?
#ifdef _S60
QApplication app(pointerToFactory, argc, argv);
#else
QApplication app(argc, argv);
#endif

If you need that factory for S60, I see no reason why you can't change QApplication to DuiApplication for maemo. It's just 3 letters.

Originally Posted by Mark Wilcox View Post
Does libdui have no dependencies other than Qt - it's actually running natively on those platforms, not in some Maemo emultor? If so, it's better than I feared, although still not as good as I hoped. If libdui is actually cross-platform then there may be some hope of fixing
It runs natively.


Originally Posted by Mark Wilcox View Post
Desktops can also have touchscreens with multi-touch now, and they might not have a physical keyboard - we have tablet PCs. Screen sizes and resolutions also vary massively too. I agree that the challenges are greater in mobile, but they aren't as different as you suggest. Qt has been working across all PCs and several other very different looking types of device for many years. They have always tried to minimize API fragmentation. I'm sure they plan for that to continue with the animated UI paradigm. I can accept an argument that says it couldn't be done quickly enough, but not one that says it can't be done.
Yeah, I also saw tablets with win7. It's ridiculous. Old UIs are not suitable for finger oriented interfaces. It's just proves my point. Btw, almost all vendors create their own UI shells for those device to browse pictures and so on. Do you know why?

Originally Posted by Mark Wilcox View Post
If there are millions of such details please can you at least provide a valid example? Not all Symbian devices have physical soft keys - the rigidity of the Avkon UI framework is what makes it easy to recognise and also what produces a lot of the weakness of the 5th Edition touch UI. It's not a good thing!
Well, they all have physical soft keys, just sometimes it's part of screen. Another example is missing hardware "home" key in n900. When there is no such a key _all_ application should have "home" button. I wonder how you would do that with Avkon.

Originally Posted by Mark Wilcox View Post
No! Does a Qt application running on Mac OS X look like a Qt application running on KDE? There are two completely separate things here - one is look and feel, which should be encapsulated in a style guide and the look and behaviour of widgets. The other is the API you use to program the UI. If you get the level of abstraction right the two are fairly loosely coupled. The framework should not enforce the style guide rigidly (as Avkon does).
Actually yes. They do look the same. I see label here, scroll bar there. It's all the same, except that they are drawn differently. If you look at mobile frameworks, they all enforce certain style guide. For instance framework enforces where menu of application will appear.

Originally Posted by Mark Wilcox View Post
I'm not completely unrealistic (at least I didn't think I was) - I don't expect there to be 100% source compatibility for everything you can do with the UI. For example soft keys, if available, can have an extra API that you only use if you want to set softkey labels to something other than the default values, much as exists in the current Qt port to S60.
This approach even worse. Sometimes things just don't exist, like soft keys but sometimes they don't match partially and then you get a mess. Because you need several copies of "almost" same things.
 

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