If I had to pick an indication that the discussions were going to go downhill, I would say it's when the phrase "Fixed in Fremantle" entered the N810 world. I no more cared that the (at the time) rumored N900 would do what I wanted my N810 to do than I cared that the iPod Touch would do it. Now we see more and more posts pointing to the next big think ("Handled in Harmattan"?) instead of dealing with how a user can or cannot accomplish what they want on the N900 with Maemo 5.